Know what else has 'regressed' this year?

[MarkGio]

Brian Burke has made the mandate of providing entertaining hockey. So Hartley cannot trap and dump and chase, which is what you do when you have a poor roster

Brad Treviling has provided Hartley with a roster that lacks a number one centre and number one goalie, as well as scoring threats up front other than Gaudreau and now Bennett.

IMO, Hartley has got the most out of a lot of players he's given, as well as performed admirably in the standings in a system and roster he's restricted to. He's the coach to team in it's 3rd year in a rebuild and has made the playoffs last year, as well as kept this team in the mix until the wire of this year.

If Trevy can provide Hartley with a number one centre and top 6 RW, as well as number one goalie, Hartley would be able to play the system he's mandated to a lot more effectively

[Poe969]

Give most any coach a better team and they'd get better results. Hartley has got worst results then last year and he has a better team this year. Other teams have adapted and changed the way they play the game but Hartley seems to think that if he does things the exact same way, no one will catch on and it'll work.

It isn't working.

[heep223]

This year's team > last year's team
This year's results < last year's results

Coaching & goaltending the biggest issues.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by heep223

This year's team > last year's team
This year's results < last year's results

Coaching & goaltending the biggest issues.

My thoughts exactly

[Split98]

We're still re-building, right?

There are holes in this lineup we can expect as we piece together a team; and with those holes we have to give the coaching staff slack.

The playoffs were fun, but I hope that in BTs mind it didn't set the bar for this season as it did some of you. I'm still impressed with what Bob did with the team last year and his development of Johnny, Monahan and Bennett. I question a lot of his decisions, but I'm also not watching practice nor am I a seasoned NHL coach.

Give him another RW, give him stable goaltending, and give Bennett another year to take the 1 or 2 C role and I'll start expecting a bit more of this team.

Until then, they are where we thought they'd be. The playoffs and the occasional run they had this year are fun.

[Poe969]

One beef I have with Hartley is that Bennett isn't really playing center. He did well with Monahan but he's playing Bennett as a winger and I think that needs to change.

[Toonage]

If Hartley keeps pulling the goalie when the Flames don't have possession of the puck and aren't deep in the opponents zone I will happily campaign for his dismissal. That's an overreaction, sure, but the decision itself is maddening.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by heep223

This year's team > last year's team
This year's results < last year's results

Coaching & goaltending the biggest issues.

I don't know how you can say this years team is better than last when 2 of our veterans are playing like total garbage after having career years.

The play of Wideman, Hudler and the goalies are far more at fault than coaching. The injuries to Brodie and Bouma didn't help. The slow start by Gio and Hamilton didn't help.

Coaching staff can take the blame for special teams but that's only one small reason why we are where we are.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

I don't know how you can say this years team is better than last when 2 of our veterans are playing like total garbage after having career years.

The play of Wideman, Hudler and the goalies are far more at fault than coaching.

He meant from an actual talent perspective. Hamilton was added, Frolik was added, etc. Two veterans aren't having crazy outlier years (luck), and the roster is mismanaged with the wrong players in the wrong roles

[SixtySix]

OT, but I hate thread titles that give me no clue what the thread is about.

[heep223]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

He meant from an actual talent perspective. Hamilton was added, Frolik was added, etc. Two veterans aren't having crazy outlier years (luck), and the roster is mismanaged with the wrong players in the wrong roles

And systems haven't been adapted, including special teams.

[Teroy]

Hard to follow your logic as well seeing as Russel's +/- was even and Gio was on for 2 goals against. Your bias is showing.

Originally Posted by saillias

Gio cannot stop Hartley from giving Russell 23 minutes a night, or Ramo & Hiller from being... themselves.

Just not following your logic. Team is bad -> blame captain? I naively hoped this line of thinking died with the end of the Iginla era. Your first line of thought for a struggling team is "must be the captain's fault!" I don't even know how you'd go there. There are about 100 more significant factors.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

I'm not a huge fan of Hartley. I don't think he coaches a modern possession based game of hockey, but this team's roster and coaching has dictated our position in the standings, not coaching alone.

I don't believe this to be true. By all accounts, our possession metrics have improved drastically over last year, and the style of game they are playing is trending much more towards a possession game. Problem is, our personnel have not yet adapted to playing that way very well. Some have, others are struggling.

This may be a year where the players have to adapt to a new style of play, and we see which players fit and which ones don't going forward. That's the part of rebuilding that is essential, figuring that out. We are starting to see the holes in the lineup based on playing the game a consistently successful way, and it's simply showing that we have work to do on the roster.

The struggles may also be that Hartley is trying to figure out how to implement a more possession based system with the players he has. Previously, he created his own style based on the talent he was given, and it was unconventional to say the least. While he was successful in the short term, both he and Treliving know that you can't play that way and be successful long term. Hartley isn't stupid, and he's shown to be more willing to change his ways than any coach I can remember. Things are definitely different this year, but the success isn't there. Part of that simply may be that the poor start led to this team not believing in itself as much, and a fragile psyche is the hardest issue to overcome for a team.

I've already written this year off as a development year, but I agree with those that are saying we should start making roster moves as soon as possible to address the glaring holes.

[Poe969]

Last year Wideman was playing like garbage and Hartley benched him then Wideman came back with a vengeance. This year, Wideman has been garbage...Hartley benches Smid as a result.

Players like Hudler and Wideman not having good years is a reflection of the coach IMO. The coach has to adapt his game and play guys differently or do something to help them. Hartley just isn't doing that.

[MrMastodonFarm]

The way some fans build up leaders on this team only to pull them apart is rather sickening.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by Poe969

Last year Wideman was playing like garbage and Hartley benched him then Wideman came back with a vengeance. This year, Wideman has been garbage...Hartley benches Smid as a result.

Players like Hudler and Wideman not having good years is a reflection of the coach IMO. The coach has to adapt his game and play guys differently or do something to help them. Hartley just isn't doing that.

To be fair to Hudler, it seems like he's been battling a nagging groin nearly the entire season. He hasn't looked nearly as quick to me, which is one of his biggest assets. In any case, Hartley has adapted by putting Hudler on the 3rd line down from the 1st line, and Wideman went from 2nd pairing to 3rd pairing. I think the only reason he's on the power play is because he's traditionally been a very good offensive defenseman.

[dino7c]

you can say this years team is better...but its not when you look at the level of play from some top players

Hudler is way worse
Wideman is way worse
Gio is way worse
Mony is worse
Goal tending is worse

Sam and Dougie do not trump all of those

[FiveSeven]

I don't think I've ever understand Hartley's approach to Wideman.
We could debate on what he's good or bad at, I think the approach should be just simply removing him from the PP for Hamilton.
Not sure how many minutes he has to be spoon fed and ineffective with before Hartley realizes it isn't working... Hamilton also got like 25 of 80 points in Boston on the PP....soooo...yeah....Bob?

Bench Wides for a game or more?
Hamilton on PP?
Try Bennett at first line center?

[Gaskal]

Originally Posted by FiveSeven

Bench Wides for a game or more?
Hamilton on PP?
Try Bennett at first line center?

Honestly, if he goes 3/3 on these then all is forgiven.

[Poe969]

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

To be fair to Hudler, it seems like he's been battling a nagging groin nearly the entire season. He hasn't looked nearly as quick to me, which is one of his biggest assets. In any case, Hartley has adapted by putting Hudler on the 3rd line down from the 1st line, and Wideman went from 2nd pairing to 3rd pairing. I think the only reason he's on the power play is because he's traditionally been a very good offensive defenseman.

If Hudler is injured, he should sit. He's not really producing so why not rest him and wait until he's 100%? He's put Hudler on the third line but he could have give up that spot to someone like Grant. Wideman is playing...there are some games where he shouldn't be. He needs to sit and find his game again. Baring that, Hartley needs to find a way to get through to him and take advantage of what Wideman brings. Special teams may be coached by Gelinas but Hartley is the head coach, he should dismiss Marty and find a way to improve it.

Maybe it's just me but I just don't think he's doing enough this year.