Elliot Friedman believes Treliving may not be back next season

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

We'll have to disagree on the injury front. Gaudreau's injury is the only meaningful injury team has faced. And you're right, team is on pace for 85 points, compared to 77 from last year. I would argue that is due to

1) removing Hiller, a move any fool would have made
2) a weaker Western conference
3) a team that mailed it in after the deadline last year, losing a couple of key players and playing goalies that should not have even been in the league

and does not yet reflect general improvement.

I am all for bringing Treliving back but I am more in the being patient camp vs. the camp that sees meaningful improvement on the ice.

I think you're right in that the flames haven't exactly been crippled by injuries, but it's not like they are leading the league as the healthiest club either.

One thing though that I think speaks directly to the coaching staff is this:

Even though the flames have been short handed 63 more times this season as compared to last season, the Flames have a much improved PK. You can give credit to the goalies, but then, what accounts for the same corresponding increase in the effectiveness of the powerplay?

How can career years be down for basically every Flames player, yet team offense is basically unchanged as compared to the previous year? They've even received basically the same amount of powerplays while having to kill off an extra 63 penalties.

Coaching.

[cannon7]

For me it really depends on who Treliving's replacement might be, there certainly could be better GMs on the market come summer. David Poile is a guy I would consider an upgrade over Treliving, I may even consider a Tallon type.

I think the ownership is looking at how things have progressed since 2014 and they basically see a downward projection where it matters. Gaudreau, Monahan, Bennett, Brodie, etc. are all struggling under this coaching/management group. Something's gotta give here. And considering both Treliving's and Gulutzan's contracts are up this summer, they better show some progress between then and now if they have any hope of keeping their jobs.

While I don't think Treliving has been a bad GM, he has yet to build a roster that is noticeably improved from the one he started with in 2014. He also appears to be oblivious to what his young group needs in terms of coaching.

[the2bears]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Is that different than arguing against "Hardly something to get all excited about, the team is just as terrible as it was last year" with "Tell me how they are worse?"?

Sure it is, as the statistics have been put forth as an argument. I haven't looked at them, but it seems to me you find one that's worse and you've disproved Flash. Simple, right?

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

I think you're right in that the flames haven't exactly been crippled by injuries, but it's not like they are leading the league as the healthiest club either.

One thing though that I think speaks directly to the coaching staff is this:

Even though the flames have been short handed 63 more times this season as compared to last season, the Flames have a much improved PK. You can give credit to the goalies, but then, what accounts for the same corresponding increase in the effectiveness of the powerplay?

How can career years be down for basically every Flames player, yet team offense is basically unchanged as compared to the previous year? They've even received basically the same amount of powerplays while having to kill off an extra 63 penalties.

Coaching.

Well you hit on something here. Improvement in special teams is the one unquestionable improvement this year, and I agree you have to give a good share of the credit to coaching. Maybe the mortician in particular.

Yet the team still stinks.

[Joe Nieuwendyk]

Originally Posted by VladtheImpaler

I would agree. I was listening, and Friedman knew what he was saying, given the venue and the audience.
As to the comment about the clown show moving south, we had the clown show here already with Feaster/Weisbrod. Given the recurrence, the problem may be higher than GM level, in which case we are doomed...

History shows that teams where the owners meddle with the day-to-day hockey activities never win.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Well you hit on something here. Improvement in special teams is the one unquestionable improvement this year, and I agree you have to give a good share of the credit to coaching. Maybe the mortician in particular.

Yet the team still stinks.

The team was always going to stink this year. It's a team full of stinkers.

[CaptainYooh]

Not sure why is everyone assuming that Treliving would be fired or not re-hired, if his contract is allowed to expire. BT doesn't need a job. He is from a very wealthy family which has active business interests. It is plausible that Brad may be needed in a more active role over there. Or that he simply had enough of the hockey business. There is a good chance that's what Friedman might have heard from the insiders.

[kukkudo]

Originally Posted by CaptainYooh

Not sure why is everyone assuming that Treliving would be fired or not re-hired, if his contract is allowed to expire. BT doesn't need a job. He is from a very wealthy family which has active business interests. It is plausible that Brad may be needed in a more active role over there. Or that he simply had enough of the hockey business. There is a good chance that's what Friedman might have heard from the insiders.

Anyone know if Jim is still involved with the day to day operations at Boston Pizza? Makes you wonder if Brad is suppose to take over some of the businesses his father owns.

[MrMastodonFarm]

This whole business speculation and leaving the game is bordering on bonkers. I suppose it could happen but it's so mindless and based on nothing I'm left shaking my head in disbelief.

When Brad left the game as a player at 25 he could have entered the family business. Instead he co-founded a minor professional hockey league merged that with the the Central Hockey League became assistant GM of the Coyotes and GM of their farm team for 11 years before accepting a GM position of his own with the Calgary Flames.

If the Flames move on from him, and the merits of that can and will be debated, it will because they choose not to. Brad Treliving will stay in the game of hockey though, make assurances of that.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

What's odd is you taking my quote and spinning it into me believing that's the reason the Flames may let go of Treliving.

pot kettle black horrible thread title.

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

100% agree with this.

First Florida...now the Flames. Why do I have to follow teams with such stupid ownership? Is there a team with good owners that I can start cheering for? I honestly can't think of any/many.

I hear the Oilers and Canucks have enviable ownership situations

Originally Posted by ComixZone

The Elliott interview is available here.

Now, that is how you headline a piece.

[N-E-B]

This team, like it or not, is miles ahead of last years team. No, they aren't quite as entertaining, but it's insane to argue that they aren't much better. The losses this year anger us more because we're actually playing meaningful games.

Gulutzan is on pace to have the Flames finish with a better record than Hartley did in three of his four seasons. Gulutzan is hardly a mistake on Trelivings part. This season is a "disaster" (and I use that term loosely because it really isn't a disaster at all) because Johnny Gaudreau, TJ Brodie, Sam Bennett and to a lesser extent Brian Elliott, Sean Monahan and Mark Giordano have been flat out terrible. Blame the coach all you want, but at the end of the day it has to fall on the players. Maybe they have a down year this year, can you imagine where they'd be if those guys could figure it out?

They're showing progress as a team this year. If that means individual stats aren't as good then I'll take it. Let's just be happy we're cheering for wins for a playoff spot rather than losses for draft positioning.

And to answer the OP, Treliving has done a pretty good job in my books. A few small mistakes but nothing I would consider to be job threatening.

[Erick Estrada]

Miles ahead? Sorry but that's just not correct. The team has better advanced stats but their record is marginally better and the team's top players are all playing below their potential which is 180 from last season. IMO if anything it's more sideways with improvement in some areas and regression in others.

[Nsd1]

Maybe he doesn't want to come back.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Miles ahead? Sorry but that's just not correct. The team has better advanced stats but their record is marginally better and the team's top players are all playing below their potential which is 180 from last season. IMO if anything it's more sideways with improvement in some areas and regression in others.

The system is better though.

I think the fact that some players are having a tough time with it speaks more to how habits needed to be broken and that said habits would have been broken with most if not all other coaches that could have been brought in.

When I see the mistakes that are being made I can't blame the coach because no coach in their right mind would be instructing players to do the things this team does when they are rattled.

Maybe the team had a core of stallions that had to be broken before they could be retrained to play pro hockey the right way?

I see the Flames as a team light years ahead (ok ahead), but individual mistakes simply killing them.

[Igottago]

Originally Posted by N-E-B

This team, like it or not, is miles ahead of last years team. No, they aren't quite as entertaining, but it's insane to argue that they aren't much better. The losses this year anger us more because we're actually playing meaningful games.

Gulutzan is on pace to have the Flames finish with a better record than Hartley did in three of his four seasons. Gulutzan is hardly a mistake on Trelivings part. This season is a "disaster" (and I use that term loosely because it really isn't a disaster at all) because Johnny Gaudreau, TJ Brodie, Sam Bennett and to a lesser extent Brian Elliott, Sean Monahan and Mark Giordano have been flat out terrible. Blame the coach all you want, but at the end of the day it has to fall on the players. Maybe they have a down year this year, can you imagine where they'd be if those guys could figure it out?

They're showing progress as a team this year. If that means individual stats aren't as good then I'll take it. Let's just be happy we're cheering for wins for a playoff spot rather than losses for draft positioning.

And to answer the OP, Treliving has done a pretty good job in my books. A few small mistakes but nothing I would consider to be job threatening.

Do you not find it at all interesting that pretty much all of the best players on the team are not performing as expected? One or two guys having down years...sure. The entire core? Guys that were coming off great seasons last year...how is that even possible?

The coaches have done some good things but if the entire core of best players isn't performing there's has to be something not working.

[BrownDrake]

GM's don't get fired or not extended after 3 years during a rebuild unless they have made tremendous errors or have proven extreme incompetence.

The average tenure of NHL GM's is over 7 years I think.

Silly and baseless speculation on Friedmans' part, probably going to cost him some access or credibility with this organization.

[Erick Estrada]

There's more to being a head coach than just implementing a system. They have to motivate and get the most out of their best players. Mike Johnston in Pittsburgh is a good example. Better system and much better defensively but Crosby, Malkin, etc saw their numbers drop off and eventually it's started to drag the team down. They bring in a different guy and they win the cup. Coaching matters and sometimes coaches are a bad fit for a locker room. Hartley's teams had a lot of enthusiasm and spark and that's one of the biggest differences as this team just doesn't have the same enthusiasm and jump.

You know some of the players obviously hated playing under a head coach that pushed them hard but it appears that's wat they needed. Let's not forget when Darryl Sutter took over the Flames he was quick to improve the work ethic. He was hard on Iginla and the rest of the team but it appears that was the only way to get the best out of them.

[CaramonLS]

Originally Posted by BrownDrake

GM's don't get fired or not extended after 3 years during a rebuild unless they have made tremendous errors or have proven extreme incompetence.

The average tenure of NHL GM's is over 7 years I think.

Silly and baseless speculation on Friedmans' part, probably going to cost him some access or credibility with this organization.

Flash may be correct in his thoughts that he might have dropped this as a favor to Treliving to put pressure on the Flames. Might actually get him even more access as a result.

[Bend it like Bourgeois]

Originally Posted by Bingo

The system is better though.

I think the fact that some players are having a tough time with it speaks more to how habits needed to be broken and that said habits would have been broken with most if not all other coaches that could have been brought in.

When I see the mistakes that are being made I can't blame the coach because no coach in their right mind would be instructing players to do the things this team does when they are rattled.

Maybe the team had a core of stallions that had to be broken before they could be retrained to play pro hockey the right way?

I see the Flames as a team light years ahead (ok ahead), but individual mistakes simply killing them.

So you're saying the Flames are 'visually' better?

Part of me agrees. Another part thinks they've swapped issues but haven't really solved much.

Used to be they could (mostly) score but made big mistakes, couldn't defend, and couldn't reliably beat many teams. Now they can (mostly) defend but still make big mistakes, struggle to score and can't reliably beat many teams.

They do look more controlled. The GA isn't really much better than 2-3 years ago though. Will the Flames from November come back and finish out the year, or is this it?

I don't mind if the Flames are waiting for that answer before re-upping Treliving.

[MisterJoji]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

It depends.



Some GMs like to keep the old coach around for a year or two. That way when things don't workout, they can always use their "get out of jail free" card and fire the coach. Treliving's "problem" was that Hartley went and won the Jack Adams. He had to wait for the team to come back down to Earth before letting him go.

If Treliving was itching to fire Hartley, I highly doubt he would've given him a contract extension when he could've waited a year for his deal to end. Firing Hartley was a knee jerk reaction.

Originally Posted by Wiggum_PI

Lol, you do know what sarcasm is right?



Flash was saying that the Flames are "statistically better in every category" this season, which has translated in 2 more wins (4pts) then last season. Hardly something to get all excited about, the team is just as terrible as it was last year.

To add, last year Hartley had the team at 2 less wins with abysmal goaltending. Gulutzan has 2 more wins with Johnson playing like vintage Kipper for a month and a half. Plus everyone outside the TBF line are playing well below their career norms. The guys who are supposed to be the team leaders had way better performances under Hartley. I still think we'd have a better record right now if Hartley was the coach. Gulutzan is a mess.