[Trade] Erik Karlsson to Penguins

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by dino7c

I wasn't calling anyone out...he is a fan and is biased

I don't think many people expect the Panthers to be a cup contender. Oddsmakers certainly don't.

Anyway this place is stupid...Flames fan site where the biggest crime is being a Flames fan.

Enjoy your summer guys...

There is being a Flames fan and there is being a company man which you typically are. The Flames can rarely do wrong in your eyes yet any other team does something similar then you are hypercritical. There have been times over the years where I wondered if you worked for the Flames in some capacity ensuring the fanbase always had rose colored glasses on.

I say this believing that it is good to have someone like you on this board because the folks who are constantly negative no matter what outnumber you tenfold. I like to be a glass half full fan it is more fun to watch and follow your favorite sports team that way.

[Sylvanfan]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I kind of wonder what that legacy star status will mean when Crosby's next contract comes (I think he will stay a few more years - two at least to match Malkin). I suppose there's a good chance he takes 8.7.

If he wants to keep playing he likely does a series of one year deals for let's say...8.7 per. Sakic did this in Denver albeit without the 8.7 obsession. I expect Crosby will be year to year after that, and he might even Bergeron his last years and play for living expenses. No idea if 20 seasons or playing till 40 were objectives he had type of thing. I guess we find out in the summer of 2025. If Man is still alive 500 years before Zager and Evans asked the question.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

There is being a Flames fan and there is being a company man which you typically are. The Flames can rarely do wrong in your eyes yet any other team does something similar then you are hypercritical. There have been times over the years where I wondered if you worked for the Flames in some capacity ensuring the fanbase always had rose colored glasses on.

I say this believing that it is good to have someone like you on this board because the folks who are constantly negative no matter what outnumber you tenfold. I like to be a glass half full fan it is more fun to watch and follow your favorite sports team that way.

The Penguins are the oldest team in the league and traded a first for a 33 year old after a 9th place finish...yet I'm the one being hypocritical lol

I wouldn't want the Flames to do something like this...some of you guys are the hypocrites, everything another team does is amazing. With all these shrewd moves by all these teams this summer it's going to be amazing when half of them miss the playoffs.

Penguins are nowhere near a cup, it's laughable to think otherwise. They are more likely to miss the playoffs than win a round.

Its okay I can make a bunch of money on CP bets like I do ever other season

"Montreal and Ottawa are gonna be good" that was last summers earnings this "homer" took in
not to mention Flames with more points than Panthers and other homer takes I had that wound up in my bank account or in the bank account of my favourite charity.

[gvitaly]

Originally Posted by dino7c

The Penguins are the oldest team in the league and traded a first for a 33 year old after a 9th place finish...yet I'm the one being hypocritical lol

I wouldn't want the Flames to do something like this...some of you guys are the hypocrites, everything another team does is amazing. With all these shrewd moves by all these teams this summer it's going to be amazing when half of them miss the playoffs.

Penguins are nowhere near a cup, it's laughable to think otherwise. They are more likely to miss the playoffs than win a round.

Its okay I can make a bunch of money on CP bets like I do ever other season

"Montreal and Ottawa are gonna be good" that was last summers earnings this "homer" took in
not to mention Flames with more points than Panthers and other homer takes I had that wound up in my bank account or in the bank account of my favourite charity.

Weren't you saying the same thing about Vegas last year? Because of goalies, injuries, and Eichel sucking without Stone.

Posters have pointed out why Pittsburgh made the moves they did. They're an improved and more exciting team as a result. It's unlikely to lead to another cup, so it's bad asset management from that perspective. However, bringing in Karlsson creates more excitement around the team, as well as marketing/business opportunities. Also those picks are 4 years away from making the Pens, so they won't make a difference while Crosby and Malkin are there.

If you want to make an argument that keeping aging vets like Crosby and Malkin is a mistake, I can see that point. However, if Iginla would've wanted to stay in Calgary I would've been more than happy to keep him and delay a rebuild as a result.

[Sylvanfan]

Originally Posted by dino7c

The Penguins are the oldest team in the league and traded a first for a 33 year old after a 9th place finish...yet I'm the one being hypocritical lol

I wouldn't want the Flames to do something like this...some of you guys are the hypocrites, everything another team does is amazing. With all these shrewd moves by all these teams this summer it's going to be amazing when half of them miss the playoffs.

Penguins are nowhere near a cup, it's laughable to think otherwise. They are more likely to miss the playoffs than win a round.

Difference is that Pittsburgh's two top players are still elite, reasonably priced, tenured, and have won the ultimate prize. They're not going to move on from these guys, so they're somewhat committed to trying to compete right or wrong.

Calgary has not won anything and Backlund is far and away the only player with any tenure and will not be going to the Hockey Hall of Fame unless he's visiting.

You might be correct in assessing where the Pens are. But I can give two HHOF guys the benefit of the doubt long before I can to Huberdeau and Kadri. I'm not sure what a good Flames comparable would be, but it would be like moving less useful versions of Coleman and Zadorov for Karlsson and cap space...which I might not hate so much. Pick a path and go after it. If it fails...at least you really suck and get that high pick one day.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by gvitaly

Yeah you're reading it wrong. Without Guentzel their roster + Petry + Johnson comes down to $77.58M. Players on LTIR count towards the cap, so with Guentzel it comes down to $83.58M, which puts them $80k over.

If Guentzel were to go on LTIR, they would be able to exceed the cap by approximately(depending on how close they are to the cap) his cap hit of 6M, for that duration.

The same way Kylington's $2.5M counts towards CGY's caphit on capfriendly.

Thanks - I didn't bother adding - I just looked at CF's totals and also the fact he is on LTIR. I assumed they took that into account.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Sylvanfan

Difference is that Pittsburgh's two top players are still elite, reasonably priced, tenured, and have won the ultimate prize. They're not going to move on from these guys, so they're somewhat committed to trying to compete right or wrong.

Calgary has not won anything and Backlund is far and away the only player with any tenure and will not be going to the Hockey Hall of Fame unless he's visiting.

You might be correct in assessing where the Pens are. But I can give two HHOF guys the benefit of the doubt long before I can to Huberdeau and Kadri. I'm not sure what a good Flames comparable would be, but it would be like moving less useful versions of Coleman and Zadorov for Karlsson and cap space...which I might not hate so much. Pick a path and go after it. If it fails...at least you really suck and get that high pick one day.

The Pens also get a great organizational benefit from having a player like Crosby retire as a Penguin. It's so much better for the image of the organization to have a player like that only wear a Pens uniform.

Giving Crosby a few more kicks at the can is just part of the price of having a guy like that on your team. A very small price, as it meant 3 Stanley Cups. And who knows....maybe Crosby will pull off another cup. That would be an NHL legend type of story. Taking a run at that alone is probably worth giving up your 1st round picks for a few years.

[rollie619]

Originally Posted by blankall

The Pens also get a great organizational benefit from having a player like Crosby retire as a Penguin. It's so much better for the image of the organization to have a player like that only wear a Pens uniform.

Giving Crosby a few more kicks at the can is just part of the price of having a guy like that on your team. A very small price, as it meant 3 Stanley Cups. And who knows....maybe Crosby will pull off another cup. That would be an NHL legend type of story. Taking a run at that alone is probably worth giving up your 1st round picks for a few years.

Exactly! Look at the effort Calgary made to have Kipper and Iggy retire as Flames.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by dino7c

The Penguins are the oldest team in the league and traded a first for a 33 year old after a 9th place finish...yet I'm the one being hypocritical lol

I wouldn't want the Flames to do something like this...some of you guys are the hypocrites, everything another team does is amazing. With all these shrewd moves by all these teams this summer it's going to be amazing when half of them miss the playoffs.

Penguins are nowhere near a cup, it's laughable to think otherwise. They are more likely to miss the playoffs than win a round.

Its okay I can make a bunch of money on CP bets like I do ever other season

"Montreal and Ottawa are gonna be good" that was last summers earnings this "homer" took in
not to mention Flames with more points than Panthers and other homer takes I had that wound up in my bank account or in the bank account of my favourite charity.

The Flames traded a 1st to dump 1 year of a 28 year old with a $6.4M cap hit so they could give a 32 year old a 7 year deal. Pitt traded a 1st for a 33 year old who just won the Norris with 100+pt season and was able to also dump several questionable deals with multiple years left and they shaved $3M in cap space. Pretty good deal for them.

The only notable disagreement I recall having with you was regarding the Tkachuk trade and how I thought it was a good move for the Panthers. A lot of back and forth debate but it was clearly settled when the Panthers made the playoffs and went on a huge run on the back of Tkachuk (and Bobrovsky). Tkachuk is considered the best contract in the league and one of the faces of the NHL. Hopefully it works out better for the Flames in the coming year but I can never see a scenario where Florida would regret making this trade.

[Mr.Coffee]

Generally I agree with dino on this as I don’t think this trade puts Pittsburgh in contention. However, tough to argue it isn’t a good trade for them I think, regardless as to whether or not it means they are auto contender or not- it’s a good move. I can’t believe they got cap space out of this, that’s insane.

Bad trade for San Jose and so far Grier looks pretty lost as a GM.

Other thing I haven’t seen mentioned yet, but, yes the Pens still have Crosby and Malkin but given their age is it even reasonable to assume they won’t get injured? I think there’s like a P90 in that haha

[VilleN]

If you score 100 pts in the NHL, you’re a pretty good player.

[dino7c]

Pens gain space in the short term...have less in the long term

They didn't just "gain space"

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

The Flames traded a 1st to dump 1 year of a 28 year old with a $6.4M cap hit so they could give a 32 year old a 7 year deal. Pitt traded a 1st for a 33 year old who just won the Norris with 100+pt season and was able to also dump several questionable deals with multiple years left and they shaved $3M in cap space. Pretty good deal for them.

The only notable disagreement I recall having with you was regarding the Tkachuk trade and how I thought it was a good move for the Panthers. A lot of back and forth debate but it was clearly settled when the Panthers made the playoffs and went on a huge run on the back of Tkachuk (and Bobrovsky). Tkachuk is considered the best contract in the league and one of the faces of the NHL. Hopefully it works out better for the Flames in the coming year but I can never see a scenario where Florida would regret making this trade.

Kadri was coming off a 100 point season (pace) and a cup he was a major contributor.

EK got a ton of points in losses...Sharks will probably be about the same in terms of team points.

I can't deny the Panthers playoffs but it's a fact they had a poor
regular season and can thank baby Jesus they made the playoffs. Ironically on the back of the Pens being terrible. If the Pens have actually improved the Panthers might struggle to make it. Only 8 spots

Anyway I don't love the trade or player...sue me lol

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Kadri was coming off a 100 point season (pace) and a cup he was a major contributor.

EK got a ton of points in losses...Sharks will probably be about the same in terms of team points.

I can't deny the Panthers playoffs but it's a fact they had a poor
regular season and can thank baby Jesus they made the playoffs. Ironically on the back of the Pens being terrible. If the Pens have actually improved the Panthers might struggle to make it. Only 8 spots

We had to give our old guy a 7 year contract though when we gave up a 1st to sign him. The Pens just had to give their old guy a 4 year contract when they gave up a first to trade for him. And they cleared out cap space for two years in their deal and we cleared out cap space for 1 year. Similar moves but we managed to lockdown our old guy for 3 additional years.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

Other thing I haven’t seen mentioned yet, but, yes the Pens still have Crosby and Malkin but given their age is it even reasonable to assume they won’t get injured? I think there’s like a P90 in that haha

Both guys played all 82 last year...though that doesn't necessarily bode well for a major improvement next year.

[Fighting Banana Slug]

I certainly understand why the Pens did it, but I am closer to dino on where this takes them. Very good chance this leaves them in the mushy middle. A place most on here despise.

So much depends on Sid and Malkin. Point/game is great, but is it realistic they play a full season? That is an incredibly old roster.

[Mr.Coffee]

I don’t think it’s realistic to expect them to play a full season, Sid / Malkin.

[Spurs]

Originally Posted by Fighting Banana Slug

I certainly understand why the Pens did it, but I am closer to dino on where this takes them. Very good chance this leaves them in the mushy middle. A place most on here despise.

So much depends on Sid and Malkin. Point/game is great, but is it realistic they play a full season? That is an incredibly old roster.

The one major difference is that the Pens are in the mushy middle because they are rewarding two all time great players that helped them win Cups. Easier to handle your team not competing for Cups when you have 3 in your back pocket.

[Hackey]

Originally Posted by Flamesfan05

No it’s not
The Pens actually wants Karlsson
The Flames just wanted to get rid of Neal, what they got in Lucic is irrelevant
Neal played like #### before the trade, Karlsson won the Norris

Not even remotely close

As I already explained the comparison is in the contracts not the players. Bad contracts traded for bad contracts. Pretty simple.

[dirk diggler]

Pittsburgh will crater in a few years and they know that, but in Penguins style, they will suck at the right time and get the next generational talent. As a Flames fan with limited elite talent, it is pretty hard to critique this move, why not go for it if you are them.