Brian Burke

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Ark2

His track record is pretty good actually. Not sure what qualifies as spotty. People around here love to criticize the Kessel trade, but if that is his worst trade, that is pretty damn impressive. Even in a losing trade he still got a young, PPG sniper who is currently and has been since the trade was made, better than either Seguin or Hamilton. Long run, Bruins won that trade, but so far I would rather have Kessel. Sorry for the sidetrack, but if Burke's record is "spotty" then there isn't a single GM in the league whose record isn't.

I don't consider trades to be the main job of an NHL GM. It's all about drafting and development, and bringing in the right people to the coaching and other support positions. Cap management is also important. Trades are the flash that earn the headlines, but aren't the foundation of the better teams.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

Burke to me is more of a 'finisher' than a builder. He is too aggressive in his rebuilding.

Exactly. The Flames aren't going to trade their way out of this mess.

[atb]

Originally Posted by Ark2

His track record is pretty good actually. Not sure what qualifies as spotty. People around here love to criticize the Kessel trade, but if that is his worst trade, that is pretty damn impressive. Even in a losing trade he still got a young, PPG sniper who is currently and has been since the trade was made, better than either Seguin or Hamilton. Long run, Bruins won that trade, but so far I would rather have Kessel. Sorry for the sidetrack, but if Burke's record is "spotty" then there isn't a single GM in the league whose record isn't.

I think his trade/signing track record is pretty good, his drafting not so much. What he did in Vancouver is probably his best comparable to what he could do in Calgary. Vancouver finished at the bottom of the West in 1997-98. Burke was hired at the end of that season. They bottomed out 1998-99, were four points out of a spot in 1999-2000, made the playoffs in 2001-2003, and were division winners by 2003-04.

In Anaheim, he walked into a pretty good situation but made some good moves that brought in Carlyle to coach, S. Niedermayer, Pronger, and Beauchemin.

In Toronto, he was brought in November 2008 after the Leafs finished 12th in the East the year before. They’ve missed the playoffs the 4 years since he was brought in (with one year being the year he was brought in midway through) but look to be a playoff team this year.

Feaster on the other hand, stepped into a situation in Tampa where they already had Lecavalier, St. Louis, Richards, and Khabibulin and Tortorella Coaching. I’m sure he made some moves that resulted in the Cup win, but it seems like the team already had a pretty solid base.

I think Feaster has also lost a lot of credibility with stuff like “intellectual honesty”, “answer is in the room”, guaranteeing playoffs, the ROR situation. Combine that with the media reports of owners/KK excessive involvement in hockey decisions, it’s no wonder people don’t have a whole heck of a lot of faith in Feaster’s ability to manage a rebuild. It also results in everyone being extremely jumpy at anything he publically states, like Murray’s mandate.

While Burke might have a huge ego, he does have a better body of work for building teams up when compared to Feaster. He also has the personality which would put a lot of the concerns above to rest. It would also end the idea of owners/KK involvement, as you would believe he simply would not come to Calgary unless he had complete autonomy. Plus his hate for Kevin Lowe.

For those reasons, I would be a lot more comfortable with this rebuild with Burke here over Feaster, especially if Wesibrod stayed on to deal with drafts, as that seems to be where he excels.

[gpflamesfan]

[QUOTE=moon;4184931]He traded for a pick that turned into the 2nd pick much different from trading the 2nd overall pick. Most people did not think that would be the 2nd pick at the time of the deal.

- yet it was the second overall pick. It was Burkes responsibility to manage the assets Toronto had. It was his responsibility to make sure it was a mid-round pick. He failed big time.


Best goalie outside of the NHL according to him not most people that follow the KHL.

What is great about signing college players if they do nothing for the NHL team like it appears they will do.

- I am glad you have a crystal ball. They have been flames assets for a week and they are busts?

That vet goalie sure is helping a lot.

- I don't understand the point you are making here?

Did not realize that Feaster was GM of Buffalo as well.

- are you referring to Tim Connolly? The ex-buffalo saber, current Toronto Marlie who was signed by Toronto as a FA for 2 years/9.5 million?

[moon]

Originally Posted by gpflamesfan

- yet it was the second overall pick. It was Burkes responsibility to manage the assets Toronto had. It was his responsibility to make sure it was a mid-round pick. He failed big time.


Best goalie outside of the NHL according to him not most people that follow the KHL.

What is great about signing college players if they do nothing for the NHL team like it appears they will do.

- I am glad you have a crystal ball. They have been flames assets for a week and they are busts?

That vet goalie sure is helping a lot.

- I don't understand the point you are making here?

Did not realize that Feaster was GM of Buffalo as well.

- are you referring to Tim Connolly? The ex-buffalo saber, current Toronto Marlie who was signed by Toronto as a FA for 2 years/9.5 million?

Yes it ended up as a bad trade no argument there. But the deal has been made to be worse than it was based on how it ended up and the Bruins making a smart pick with Hamilton than it was at the time.

Don't have a crystal ball but can see what Lamb and Eddy (was there more?) are doing in juniors and can't see anything that indicates that is a plus in Feasters column.

I am referring to the fact that Buffalo got a 1st round pick.

[dissentowner]

He would be on the job less than a month before CP would be calling for his head.

[Dagger]

Originally Posted by Badger Bob

Yeah, he's abrasive and at time obnoxious, but he reads situations and reacts accordingly. It's understood that nobody wants to hear anything favorable about Vancouver around here, which is the perfect example of how he navigated. The Sedins made it clear that they were only going to play for the same team. Burke realized that he was the only one who could pull it off. We don't know the Flames draft position for this year yet, and this is the type of situation that makes him thrive.

OK, some compromise: hire him as a consultant (similar to what Scotty Bowman does in Chicago) until he gets another full time GM gig. That keeps him out of the spotlight and gives him the opportunity shine behind the scenes.

The Sedins didn't say they were only going to the same team, just that they'd prefer it. Burke did do a good job in getting that done though.

[FAN]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

Burke to me is more of a 'finisher' than a builder. He is too aggressive in his rebuilding.

I think Burke is a better builder than a finisher. He was too aggressive in rebuilding the Leafs, but he probably learned his lesson.

In Hartford he drafted Pronger. In Vancouver he built the Canucks into playoff contenders, but he was never able to acquire the pieces to get the Canucks over the hump. In Anaheim, Burke got lucky. He found a fool in Jay Feaster trading Shane O'Brien for a 1st thinking that he would use that 1st to add another top 6 forward. He failed but the Ducks went on to win the Cup anyway. In Toronto, once he slowed down and stopped trying to build his team through free agency and went back to building the team through the draft and with youth, the Leafs were back on track. So I think Burke is good at turning around franchises, but his ability to put the finishing touches together is still in question IMO. If anything, Feaster has a better history of putting together finishing touches.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by moon

Only concern with Loob is he left NA once already for Europe. Perhaps now that his kids are grown he will consider leaving but he does seem to be a guy that is very happy with his current job with his hometown team.

Yup, it might be hard to get Loob out of Sweden, but he's had some serious success over there in management. If you could, it's worth the effort imo.

[Yoho]

Originally Posted by nik-

Yup, it might be hard to get Loob out of Sweden, but he's had some serious success over there in management. If you could, it's worth the effort imo.

Best GM outside of the NHL would fit well on this franchise

[Sylvanfan]

I like that he has been a president/GM before, and feel that he might bring some leadership back to the Flames organization that seems to have disappeared. Not sure if he would be as patient as he might need to be with the project the Flames will be. Although someone of his stature might wield enough clout to keep ownership off his back for 3-4 years.

[OzSome]

Heck no! We already got rid of one grumpy person in Brent Sutter. I don't want another grumpy person in Flames organization. Besides Brian Burke is so overrated.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Does he want the job though?

Don't know if it's an attractive destination at this point.

It's the NHL, and there are only 30 top-management positions of this nature in the entire world. Nill is widely regarded as a quality administrator, and is certain to land the GM title at some point in the next four years. The thing is, though, as "unattractive" as the Flames are presently, it is still an opportunity that one would be foolish to pass up, if he truly has aspirations of being an NHL general manager. History shows that would-be GMs most often take the job that is available to them. Yzerman is a great case in point: TB was easily one of the LEAST attractive places to be for an NHL executive at the time, and that was the job he took, because that was the job available.

[Calgary4LIfe]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

It's the NHL, and there are only 30 top-management positions of this nature in the entire world. Nill is widely regarded as a quality administrator, and is certain to land the GM title at some point in the next four years. The thing is, though, as "unattractive" as the Flames are presently, it is still an opportunity that one would be foolish to pass up, if he truly has aspirations of being an NHL general manager. History shows that would-be GMs most often take the job that is available to them. Yzerman is a great case in point: TB was easily one of the LEAST attractive places to be for an NHL executive at the time, and that was the job he took, because that was the job available.

And to add to this if I may:

Not every organization is willing to spend to the cap. Though I don't anticipate that Calgary will be spending to the cap for the next couple of seasons, they do have a committed ownership group willing to spend. There are plenty of organizations that are budget teams, and I would imagine it would be sometimes frustrating being a GM in that kind of situation.

There is also the opportunity to 'build' something from scratch in Calgary. Sure, there are some pieces in place, but to enter into an organization and have a chance to build something almost from scratch may prove to be a challenge some managers would want.

I don't think Calgary is so low on the 'attractiveness' side. It may not be as glamorous as the 'pearl of the NHL' (was that what Burke called Toronto?), but it is definitely not very low I would imagine.

[vilzeh]

The talk here is like a grandmothers fart, half of it is sh1t.

Clearly so many guys who have no idea what they are talking about but they are still talking. Oh dear god, kill this thread with fire.

[moon]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

It's the NHL, and there are only 30 top-management positions of this nature in the entire world. Nill is widely regarded as a quality administrator, and is certain to land the GM title at some point in the next four years. The thing is, though, as "unattractive" as the Flames are presently, it is still an opportunity that one would be foolish to pass up, if he truly has aspirations of being an NHL general manager. History shows that would-be GMs most often take the job that is available to them. Yzerman is a great case in point: TB was easily one of the LEAST attractive places to be for an NHL executive at the time, and that was the job he took, because that was the job available.

Except that Nill gets paid at a GM rate for an organization that he loves and in the city his kids go to school.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by moon

Except that Nill gets paid at a GM rate for an organization that he loves and in the city his kids go to school.

What's your point?

That doesn't in any way change the fact that IF Nill does decide to become a NHL general manager, then he will take whatever job happens to be available at the time of his decision. In any given year, there are only one or two said positions available.

[Madrox]

Originally Posted by moon

Except that Nill gets paid at a GM rate for an organization that he loves and in the city his kids go to school.

Nill is obviously not in the cards, as he's committed to Detroit based on his last contract. The original question was about Fenton, who is someone I don't know much about. Anyone have more info?

Edit: And that if he wanted to come to Calgary, the opportunity for him to do so was likely there a couple of years ago.

[Madrox]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

What's your point?

That doesn't in any way change the fact that IF Nill does decide to become a NHL general manager, then he will take whatever job happens to be available at the time of his decision. In any given year, there are only one or two said positions available.

Nill is a bit of a different case, based on how I see it. It's not that he'll take whatever job is available, it's that he'll jump on the job he sees as being the option he wants to take, otherwise he's happy where he is. I think there's little doubt he's had opportunities before now.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Madrox

Nill is a bit of a different case, based on how I see it. It's not that he'll take whatever job is available, it's that he'll jump on the job he sees as being the option he wants to take, otherwise he's happy where he is.

No question. But he can't merely pick and choose so freely, since there is no guarantee that the top-job of his choice will be available when he wants it.

Originally Posted by Madrox

I think there's little doubt he's had opportunities before now.

Of course he has, and he definitely has more control over his own fate than most aspiring future GMs, but without knowing precisely what he wants in a new job and for his family, it is really impossible to make judgements about what he might or might not do. My point in this is simply that if there happens to be an opening this year or next, we ought not discount Calgary as a destination for a quality general manager so quickly and out of hand.