The Legend of Sam Bennett

[Johnny Makarov]

Originally Posted by Saqe

Bennett was still young in Calgary, I don't understand the criticism that he didn't shine since he was bounced around the lineup constantly and didn't get to play as center. For a young player trying to find his game in the nhl, that can't be easy.

The criticism should be directed at his fanboys on this site saying he was never given a chance. He played 432 games for us! not 100, not 200. How many more games did he need to show us he had more hockey IQ than a pineapple? 800?

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

The Flames making the playoffs in 14/15 season made the management thing the rebuild was over. That was a fun year we exceeded expectations, but they should have realized that type of play was not sustainable.

The Hamilton trade is fine, but the team still needed to develop. Any sniff at the playoffs and it's green light time to start bringing in vets and pushing younger guys down.

Troy Brouwer being touted as some great linemate for Bennett, and that never materializing. So we double down and bring in James Neal, and end it with Lucic who funny enough did have chemistry but we said nahhh.

Naw. The Flames had the players. Their rebuilding through the draft was done.

Here's the team the Flames built:

Gaudreau-Monahan-
Bennett-Tkachuk-Mangiapane
Backlund-


Anderson, Valimaki, Kylington,

Then they acquired: Markstrom, Lindholm, Hanifin, Tanev, Coleman, Ryan, Zadorov, etc...


Sure, that's not a perfect roster, but you aren't filling it out through the draft. You need to make good moves to be a championship team. Acquiring good players instead of bad ones (Ex. James Neal). Keep in mind this team also finished first in the Western Conference one year.

The Flames could never make those final good moves and always had locker room issues, typically caused by coaching issues. That's why they were never consistent contenders. Not because the draft was pulled early.

Look at the kind of deadline moves that the championship teams make. Look at who the Flames were bringing in.

The draft will only get you so far too. As you continue to rebuild, you end up getting worse and worse draft picks. Once the Flames had Gaudreau and Tkachuk firing, the team isn't finishing with a top 5 pick. You can continue adding #8-15ish draft picks, but those typically take years to develop and rarely become franchise level players.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Johnny Makarov

The criticism should be directed at his fanboys on this site saying he was never given a chance. He played 432 games for us! not 100, not 200. How many more games did he need to show us he had more hockey IQ than a pineapple? 800?

That's the whole thing. He is low IQ. He can't be put into a bottom six or winger position and expected to all of a sudden change his game and become a playmaker. He's dumb. He drives the net. He happens to have a somewhat elite skill set at doing that, and he doesn't do much else. Why did the Flames make him do something else.

[ResAlien]

Just because other players succeeded during that time doesn’t mean it’s not someone else’s fault Benzo didn’t. He was buried, disrespected, intentionally undercut, and willfully undermined. From day one the organization’s goal was to set him up for failure. His lack of success is on management and coaching while the successes of other players during that same period were oddly enough fully independent of those same factors. Pretty simple stuff really when you think about it logically.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by DazzlinDino

Elias, didn't seem happy here before he went to Vancouver. Now we're seeing him scoring goals again and getting involved and speaking up for his new team. He likened his new team is to being underdogs, I believe there's a reason why these players turned around and walked out of Calgary some of which didn't even want to sign here for more money. Sam Bennett and now Huberdeau blaming their poor play on confidence is a little bit mystifying. Maybe something here went rotten on the inside and the players just didn't want to be here.

Boy that's a stretch considering he has been more bad than good in Vancouver. And for most of the time here he was VERY good.

But you are moving the goal posts around a lot. I can't really tell what your core premise is. That players don't want to be here? Well there's probably some truth there based on where the team is in their compete cycle.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by ResAlien

Just because other players succeeded during that time doesn’t mean it’s not someone else’s fault Benzo didn’t. He was buried, disrespected, intentionally undercut, and willfully undermined. From day one the organization’s goal was to set him up for failure. His lack of success is on management and coaching while the successes of other players during that same period were oddly enough fully independent of those same factors. Pretty simple stuff really when you think about it logically.

Funny stuff. Nobody is saying that the organization was principally driven by sabotaging him.

They just slotted him with a rotating cast of bottom 6 guys. He produced like a guy playing with bottom 6 guys, he just failed to produce like a top 6 guy when deployed as a bottom 6.

You do realize that in the season GioPM is pointing to as his big opportunity (as a wing, not a C), Brett Ritchie played more with Gaudreau and Monahan. Brett ####ing Ritchie.

The linemates TOI stats are there for all to see. A nice even blend of guys like Janko, Rieder , Neal, Czarnik, Dube, Ryan, Leivo, Lucic, etc. Never a huge solid chunk of time with top 6 guys. Deployed as a bottom 6 wing in the blender.


No matter. Like I say, he got frustrated and fed up, asked for a trade, and got one. He now is a 2C on a top team.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

Funny stuff. Nobody is saying that the organization was principally driven by sabotaging him.

They just slotted him with a rotating cast of bottom 6 guys. He produced like a guy playing with bottom 6 guys, he just failed to produce like a top 6 guy when deployed as a bottom 6.

You do realize that in the season GioPM is pointing to as his big opportunity (as a wing, not a C), Brett Ritchie played more with Gaudreau and Monahan. Brett ####ing Ritchie.

The linemates TOI stats are there for all to see. A nice even blend of guys like Janko, Rieder , Neal, Czarnik, Dube, Ryan, Leivo, Lucic, etc. Never a huge solid chunk of time with top 6 guys. Deployed as a bottom 6 wing in the blender.


No matter. Like I say, he got frustrated and fed up, asked for a trade, and got one. He now is a 2C on a top team.

We know there's one player that Bennett works with...Tkachuk. The Flames never gave Bennett lots of time with Tkachuk. Seems like a very odd thing to do, as their play styles clearly compliment each other. The Flames never wanted to let either Tkachuk or Bennett play their game, to its full extent. Both players clearly perform best when unchained and allow to play their game, not when they are being told to play two way hockey. Not every player needs to play two way hockey.

As you say, it wasn't some personal attempt to sabotage individual players. It was just total inflexibility with the team. The structure was too rigid. The identity of being a group of hard working, zone controlling, two way players just doesn't work in the faster and more offensively driven NHL.

[GranteedEV]

I always saw Bennett as a similar player to a guy like Nazem Kadri or Henrik Zetterberg. A guy who could be a top two line center on a cup contender, but probably won't be a top tier star (yes Kadri had that one outlier season but i mean his overall body of work) due to mediocre finish / non-elite hands. I think he's proven he's essentially that with Florida since his arrival there.

The Flames simply and mistakenly saw Bennett as a similar player to a guy like Martin Pospisil. An energy winger because he smashed bodies hard.

The smashing was a bonus, but you can't slot someone into a role because of that and force them to be that in every line combination.

[FanIn80]

Imagine being a highly rated young mechanic who's up for a job at a one of the 32 best garages on the planet. As a life-long mechanic, you've specialzed and exceled at working on expensive, high tech, supercar engines. Ferraris, McLarens, Porsches... you've even become quite good at the pinacle of engine work, which is racecars. F1, Formula, etc. I mean, you still need a few more years working on Maranellos and 911s before you'll be ready for full time duty with the F1 team, but you're well on your way...

And then you land a job with one of those 32 garages, the one in Calgary Alberta, and they tell you on day one that you won't be working on racecar or even supercar engines. Instead, you'll be working on roadcar and maybe even lawnmower engines instead... actually, strike that... they don't want to bump any of their current engine mechanics at all to make room for you, so instead you'll be fixing brakes and changing tires on 4-door Honda Civics and K-Cars. Unless, of course, we need you doing oil changes on lanwmowers.

Don't worry though, because once in a while we'll get you rotating tires and changing air filters on a couple of Ferraris when one of our top-six mehcanics is hurt or whatever. Never on engines though. We'll rotate one of those guys over to work on engines and then you'll take their spot.

Oh hey, also in about four or five years, we're going to ask you what you want to work on and then make you feel like you've got that job... but then, right before you're about to start working on a Porsche engine, at the begining of that year's busy season, we'll tell you we're just gonna keep you doing brake changes on Civics instead.


I mean, hey... maybe this really good engine guy sucks at changing brakes and rotating tires. Maybe he knows how a McLaren works, but can't figure out an Oldsmobile. Maybe lanmower oil filters are absolutely beyond his grasp.


...orrrr maybe he's frustrated and can't understand how he ended up standing here, whacking his thumb with a wrench while trying to get this friggin brake drum loose on this stupid AMC Pacer and for the love of God, I'm literally staring at a U bolt that's almost rusted all the way through, and why won't this latest manager of this shop we've got now belive me when I tell him the leaf spring on this thing is gonna fall off on the customer's way home... four years ago, I was working on Ferrari engines and literally killing it... what happened? ... like, all I did was get picked to work at this shop... I wasn't even allowed to say no or even choose a different shop...

[Johnny Makarov]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

I always saw Bennett as a similar player to a guy like Nazem Kadri or Henrik Zetterberg. A guy who could be a top two line center on a cup contender, but probably won't be a top tier star (yes Kadri had that one outlier season but i mean his overall body of work) due to mediocre finish / non-elite hands. I think he's proven he's essentially that with Florida since his arrival there.

The Flames simply and mistakenly saw Bennett as a similar player to a guy like Martin Pospisil. An energy winger because he smashed bodies hard.

The smashing was a bonus, but you can't slot someone into a role because of that and force them to be that in every line combination.

hahahahah Bennett is NO Zetterberg or Kadri! hahahahhaa

Do you see 600 goals and 1300 points in his career? This is so effing ridiculous. A legend thread for a guy who is good in 20% of his games. lol

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

I always saw Bennett as a similar player to a guy like Nazem Kadri or Henrik Zetterberg. A guy who could be a top two line center on a cup contender, but probably won't be a top tier star (yes Kadri had that one outlier season but i mean his overall body of work) due to mediocre finish / non-elite hands. I think he's proven he's essentially that with Florida since his arrival there.

The Flames simply and mistakenly saw Bennett as a similar player to a guy like Martin Pospisil. An energy winger because he smashed bodies hard.

The smashing was a bonus, but you can't slot someone into a role because of that and force them to be that in every line combination.

The interesting thing about Bennett as centre is that his improvement (like Lindholm) came when he played with a winger who took over the normal centre role of puck distribution. For Lindholm it was Gaudreau, for Bennett it was Huberdeau. Bennett is a net crasher, which works well for a guy feeding the slot like Huberdeau (and now Tkachuk).

[Johnny Makarov]

Originally Posted by FanIn80

Imagine being a highly rated young mechanic who's up for a job at a one of the 32 best garages on the planet. As a life-long mechanic, you've specialzed and exceled at working on expensive, high tech, supercar engines. Ferraris, McLarens, Porsches... you've even become quite good at the pinacle of engine work, which is racecars. F1, Formula, etc. I mean, you still need a few more years working on Maranellos and 911s before you'll be ready for full time duty with the F1 team, but you're well on your way...

And then you land a job with one of those 32 garages, the one in Calgary Alberta, and they tell you on day one that you won't be working on racecar or even supercar engines. Instead, you'll be working on roadcar and maybe even lawnmower engines instead... actually, strike that... they don't want to bump any of their current engine mechanics at all to make room for you, so instead you'll be fixing brakes and changing tires on 4-door Honda Civics and K-Cars. Unless, of course, we need you doing oil changes on lanwmowers.

Don't worry though, because once in a while we'll get you rotating tires and changing air filters on a couple of Ferraris when one of our top-six mehcanics is hurt or whatever. Never on engines though. We'll rotate one of those guys over to work on engines and then you'll take their spot.

Oh hey, also in about four or five years, we're going to ask you what you want to work on and then make you feel like you've got that job... but then, right before you're about to start working on a Porsche engine, at the begining of that year's busy season, we'll tell you we're just gonna keep you doing brake changes on Civics instead.


I mean, hey... maybe this really good engine guy sucks at changing brakes and rotating tires. Maybe he knows how a McLaren works, but can't figure out an Oldsmobile. Maybe lanmower oil filters are absolutely beyond his grasp.


...orrrr maybe he's frustrated and can't understand how he ended up standing here, whacking his thumb with a wrench while trying to get this friggin brake drum loose on this stupid AMC Pacer and for the love of God, I'm literally staring at a U bolt that's almost rusted all the way through, and why won't this latest manager of this shop we've got now belive me when I tell him the leaf spring on this thing is gonna fall off on the customer's way home... four years ago, I was working on Ferrari engines and literally killing it... what happened? ... like, all I did was get picked to work at this shop... I wasn't even allowed to say no or even choose a different shop...

So in his case he couldn't turn a screwdriver because his wrists were too limp hahaha

But nice comparison. If he was a F1 driver he is prob Max Verstappen but the idiot would crash his car in pre-qualifying, qualifying, going to the grid..... so he didn't even have a car to race on race day. Also on the races that Bennett would have won, they would have taken away his victories after video replay of him cutting the chicane on the last corner.

[Erick Estrada]

I think it's been said before but the Flames aren't the first team to draft a highly touted player that performed much better on another team. I don't see the point in beating this horse as we all know it was a combination of Bennett not stepping up when opportunities were presented as well as organizational mismanagement. There's not really much else to say that hasn't been discussed several times over.

I don't mind this being bumped if it's due to noteworthy play as I've always liked Bennett and it's good to see him do well in Florida but I don't see the point of bumping it just to remind fans about the past. He was traded years ago and it's time to move on as he's not the first and won't be the last player that got away as is the nature of professional sports.

[Johnny Makarov]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

I think it's been said before but the Flames aren't the first team to draft a highly touted player that performed much better on another team. I don't see the point in beating this horse as we all know it was a combination of Bennett not stepping up when opportunities were presented as well as organizational mismanagement. There's not really much else to say that hasn't been discussed several times over.

I don't mind this being bumped if it's due to noteworthy play as I've always liked Bennett and it's good to see him do well in Florida but I don't see the point of bumping it just to remind fans about the past. He was traded years ago and it's time to move on as he's not the first and won't be the last player that got away as is the nature of professional sports.

Also with his playing style he might only have 2-3 seasons left in him. He is injured every year and hasn't played a full season since 2017-2018.

[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by Johnny Makarov

The criticism should be directed at his fanboys on this site saying he was never given a chance. He played 432 games for us! not 100, not 200. How many more games did he need to show us he had more hockey IQ than a pineapple? 800?

You still never answered the question why he is doing fine elsewhere. Some people here said as soon as he got to Florida he'd be shuffled down the lineup but that never happened. Then they said it was because he was playing with Huberdeau an elite player. So then we trade for Huberdeau and Bennett is still doing fine but now Huberdeau can't find his game. Maybe there was a reason why Bennett didn't play well in Calgary. What is your take on Huberdeau, that it is all on the player?

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

I think it's been said before but the Flames aren't the first team to draft a highly touted player that performed much better on another team. I don't see the point in beating this horse as we all know it was a combination of Bennett not stepping up when opportunities were presented as well as organizational mismanagement. There's not really much else to say that hasn't been discussed several times over.

I don't mind this being bumped if it's due to noteworthy play as I've always liked Bennett and it's good to see him do well in Florida but I don't see the point of bumping it just to remind fans about the past. He was traded years ago and it's time to move on as he's not the first and won't be the last player that got away as is the nature of professional sports.

Yeah look at Blake Wheeler. 5th overall by Boston, a good rookie year, then started to slide. Traded to Atlanta with Brad Suart for Rich Peverly and a replacement player, immediately got some points, then took a huge jump when they moved the next full season. Eventually becomes a PPG player for a couple seasons.

[Johnny Makarov]

Originally Posted by DazzlinDino

You still never answered the question why he is doing fine elsewhere. Some people here said as soon as he got to Florida he'd be shuffled down the lineup but that never happened. Then they said it was because he was playing with Huberdeau an elite player. So then we trade for Huberdeau and Bennett is still doing fine but now Huberdeau can't find his game. Maybe there was a reason why Bennett didn't play well in Calgary. What is your take on Huberdeau, that it is all on the player?

Florida has a better team. I love Barkov and Verhagee(damn hard to spell though).
Bennett wasn't that great in Florida to start. He cost them the 1st year in the 1st round of the playoffs against Tampa with his stupid penalty and suspension. Derp.

I dont care about Huberdeau. Maybe I would if we were in the Legend of Hubey thread.

Hey but at the end of the day... Bennett 0 cups. Huberdeau 0 cups.

[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Boy that's a stretch considering he has been more bad than good in Vancouver. And for most of the time here he was VERY good.

But you are moving the goal posts around a lot. I can't really tell what your core premise is. That players don't want to be here? Well there's probably some truth there based on where the team is in their compete cycle.

Well that's okay as you have some excellence opinions. I appreciate that. Personally I think there were likely some internal issues, it's good to see a lot of our players are still playing well elsewhere. To me that possibly a reflection of management and yes some on the player. Yes definitely I'm moving goal posts around lately, probably a little bit intentionally.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Johnny Makarov

Also with his playing style he might only have 2-3 seasons left in him. He is injured every year and hasn't played a full season since 2017-2018.

2-3 years? Nah

He has a long career ahead

He can go to Vegas, skip the 82 game grind and magically heal just in time to suit up for the playoffs

[FanIn80]

Let's not forget this team slotted Backlund, Ryan and Jankowsi at center behind Monahan instead of Bennett in any of those three spots.

We could have had...

Gaudreau Monahan
Tkachuk Bennett
Frolik Backlund
Brouwer Ryan

That's a top scoring line, a scoring 2nd line, a solid checking 3rd line and a "don't screw up while the other three lines are resting" 4th line.

Instead, we had...

Gaudreau Monahan
Tkachuk Backlund
Bennett Ryan
Brouwer Jankowski

That's a scoring line that's easily shut down becuase we only have one, a solid checking 2nd line that we wish could have been more of a scoring line, an underacheiving 3rd line that is over used because we also had the worst 4th line in hockey.