Craig Conroy and "The Dallas Model"

[traptor]

I actually think the LA kings might be more realistic.

They had an older group of vets and some decent younger support pieces.
They missed for 3 years straight.they didn't really get extremly lucky in any draft but in that time they were able to grab Byfield and Clarke as well a decent group of potential NHLers.

Then they started building back up. Got Arvidsson for pretty cheap. Traded for fiala.

[flambers]

Originally Posted by traptor

I actually think the LA kings might be more realistic.

They had an older group of vets and some decent younger support pieces.
They missed for 3 years straight.they didn't really get extremly lucky in any draft but in that time they were able to grab Byfield and Clarke as well a decent group of potential NHLers.

Then they started building back up. Got Arvidsson for pretty cheap. Traded for fiala.

Somewhat different, as the Kings selected Quinton Byfield 2nd overall

Previous year, they used 5th overall (Alex Turcotte)

year after Byfield they had the 8th overall (Clarke)

In my view, its not very likely the Flames will have an 2nd overall.

[Ped]

Conroy's done a good job, but I am always leery when someone says they want to follow another team's "model." By now, the model to succeed and contend should be obvious, imo, but hard to replicate - you have to hit on a few late picks, and you have to have good, cheap young players to balance out your roster.

[Jason14h]

Originally Posted by traptor

I actually think the LA kings might be more realistic.

They had an older group of vets and some decent younger support pieces.
They missed for 3 years straight.they didn't really get extremly lucky in any draft but in that time they were able to grab Byfield and Clarke as well a decent group of potential NHLers.

Then they started building back up. Got Arvidsson for pretty cheap. Traded for fiala.

The Flames don’t have an older Hall of Fame D and C anchoring the old crew

They have Huberdeau/ Kadri and I guess Weegar?

So all we need is a 2nd overall pick , and somehow find 2 players of Kopitar and Doughtys quality to subsidize the rest of the roster we need to build - and we can have the hopes of becoming LA who has done …. Nothing really yet

Flames fans need to accept there is no model to shortcut this . You need to bottom out and draft lots of talent . Talent wins . Start stockpiling young talent and the strategy going forward will evolve depending on who works out .

The only goal right now should to get top end young talent - if you can find it lucky enough through a trade(s) and/or more realistically the top of the draft

[Bonded]

I hope Conroy learned to stay out of the UFA market

[Goriders]

Originally Posted by Ped

Conroy's done a good job, but I am always leery when someone says they want to follow another team's "model." By now, the model to succeed and contend should be obvious, imo, but hard to replicate - you have to hit on a few late picks, and you have to have good, cheap young players to balance out your roster.

It’s not really a secret hey?

Flames have tons of picks in the magic bean lottery and tons of capspace. As well as a few poker chips.

The world is your oyster Conman.

[Goriders]

Originally Posted by Bonded

I hope Conroy learned to stay out of the UFA market

Every team needs UFAs. Find me a cup champ that didn’t have any. It’s part of the puzzle.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by Goriders

Every team needs UFAs. Find me a cup champ that didn’t have any. It’s part of the puzzle.

Find me a cup champ that didn't already have a foundation in place before they dabbled into free agency in any sort of significant way?

Timing is everything. Prematurely spending money in free agency will prevent the team from drafting where they need to draft.

[flambers]

Originally Posted by Bonded

I hope Conroy learned to stay out of the UFA market

I would think, Flames will sign a UFA, likely a veteran on defense.

[Finger Cookin]

If Conroy does somehow find a way to stumble through this mess and we have a contending, division winning team somehow in 5-7 years, I feel like there will be loads of sports management teams studying "The Conroy Method".

In terms of UFA, for where the club should be trajectory wise next season, picking up a vet on a camp tryout and then plugging him in should suffice. No need to spend more than that in July or August.

[Goriders]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

Find me a cup champ that didn't already have a foundation in place before they dabbled into free agency in any sort of significant way?

Timing is everything. Prematurely spending money in free agency will prevent the team from drafting where they need to draft.

Markstrom
Weegar
Anderson
Kadri
Coleman
Backlund
Sharongovich
Kuzmenko

We have a foundation. If you mean we have to wait to draft McDavid and Mckinnon in the magic bean lottery before trying to improve the team I can let you in on a secret.

The Flames are never going to draft a player like that. Ever. Hopefully they aren’t using that as their base strategy.

They dumped all of their UFAs this year. I don’t think there are more than 4 players on the team from 3 seasons ago and 2 of them might be leaving this summer. How much more change can you realistically get? That’s around a 92% turnover rate.

At some point you have to reverse that trend if you actually want any undrafted players to come here. Let alone stay. No team in the league is built solely from the magic bean lottery. I’d guess on average 25-50% of most teams players were drafted by them originally.

What difference does it make where you get them from if you have the $$? Is there a prize for most original draft picks per team? Flames need to find affordable good players with enough entry level contracts to keep them under the cap. I think they have a lot of good players. A ton of draft picks. Some poker chips and a massive amount of capspace.

None of those things are bad. I hope Conman uses all of his tools wisely in the offseason. From past history I think he will.

[cannon7]

Calgary is not Dallas, and sure as hell is not Los Angeles. The only thing the Flames can emulate, if you want to call it that, is things that are wholly disconnected from the things the Flames can not change. The Flames can not change that they are in a small market, short a relocation. The Flames can not change the fact that they are frequently on players' no trade lists. The Stars and Kings are rarely, if ever, subject to the limitations the Flames face. As such, you simply can not emulate something that never experiences the constraints that you do. It is a fool's errand.

But there are things the Flames can do. You can't make an immovable object move, but you can work around said immovable object. The sooner you can acknowledge that the object can not be moved, the sooner you can focus on the things that can.

There are some posters in this thread advocating using the cap space in different ways. These could work. But it is a fact that the Flames budget outside of the salary cap is nowhere near the levels of larger market teams. If the Flames didn't spend to the cap, perhaps that $10-20-million could be put somewhere else? Scouting and player development isn't a dark art. If you can attract the best scouts and best development talent, and compensate them accordingly, then dividends are likely to follow. Those dividends can be compounded if you give those scouts and development personnel as much to work with as possible. Instead of banging your head against the small market constraints, instead focus on building the best scouting and development team in the league. It won't be easy, big market teams, with big market budgets, are not going to give up their scouting and development talent easily, or cheaply. But if you can ingrain a culture of excellence here organizationally, then the hope is the best and brightest in these fields will gravitate towards the team that places the highest importance upon these disciplines. The Flames might have a fighting chance here. In the game of pretending to be a big market team, they have none.

[Jason14h]

That is not a foundation. Not even close

[cannon7]

Originally Posted by browna

Bottom line is that this team isn't paying lip service to the talk of making the playoffs next year.
Decks have been cleared after this year. Conroy has been given the ability to make whatever decisions this years but the results of those decisions have to take hold as soon as next year.

There will be acquisitions and decisions based on the shorter term, including trading away acquired picks, to the dismay of a segment of people here.

If a any of that is true, and I don't think even Flames ownership is that delusional, then there is no hope for this franchise for the next decade.

[Boreal]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

Find me a cup champ that didn't already have a foundation in place before they dabbled into free agency in any sort of significant way?

Timing is everything. Prematurely spending money in free agency will prevent the team from drafting where they need to draft.

Boston 2011

[Ped]

Originally Posted by Boreal

Boston 2011

Sure, they don't win without Thomas and Chara. But they also had Bergeron, Krejci, Marchand, and Seguin (not a huge contributor but still)

[Flames Fan, Ph.D.]

Originally Posted by browna

Bottom line is that this team isn't paying lip service to the talk of making the playoffs next year.
Decks have been cleared after this year. Conroy has been given the ability to make whatever decisions this years but the results of those decisions have to take hold as soon as next year.

There will be acquisitions and decisions based on the shorter term, including trading away acquired picks, to the dismay of a segment of people here.

Time will tell, but from listening to his comments I interpret it differently. I think he views the next 2-3 years fundamentally different than years 4+.

I think he'll look to the free agent market, but I don't think it's in order to find players looking for 5+ year contracts. I think he believes a short term contract or two (2-3 years) is the sweet spot in order to keep the team in it for the next 2-3 years while not hamstringing the organization with long term contracts. That will help him continue to draft, develop, and keep roster spots open for the next stage that is ~4 years out.

I do not think he'll give up picks unless it is to sign a young player that would fit into his vision of where this team is 4+ years from now.

[Jiri Hrdina]

The Dallas model can be boiled down to a very simple statement: "Draft better than everyone else".

That's it.
And I don't say that negatively. In fact, if I were the Flames that's exactly the mission I would put forth to the scouting staff and front office. It acknowledges that the team operates under systematic disadvantages. So if it's going to compete, it must outperform in other areas - the key one being scouting and drafting.

Scouting can be inclusive of identifying under-valued players from other organizations, which they seem to be doing a good job of.

But boil it down to the essence: that's what it really is.

[Bubba17]

Originally Posted by Winsor_Pilates

Dallas 2017 draft might be the best 3 picks ever made by a team in a single draft.
Would be an interesting list to compile of other "3 in the same year" groups.

Great model to emulate, but picking that well in a single draft may never happen again.

May want to look at Anaheim draft in 2003. 4 long term NHL players, but Drew Miller and Shane O'Brien played for a few teams. The other 2 were later first rounders that turned out quite well, Getzlaff and Perry.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by flambers

I would think, Flames will sign a UFA, likely a veteran on defense.

I’m not saying that he can’t sign any UFAs but he better restrict to short term deals. There are zero UFAs that will make a material difference to the results given the current make up of the team. Another long term contract will just add to the issues