The dumbing down of America continues...

[Azure]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

You didn't take physics in elementary or junior high school.

The topic never came up?

Oh, sorry for the misunderstanding.

Yes it did. Pretty hard to avoid or deny evolution when we captured caterpillars and watched them turn into butterfly's.

[Dope-AS-Fack]

According to the bible you should "stone to death a bad child" and "its alright to sell your daugther to slavery"

Of course christians dont follow these, they pick and choose whats right outa the bible

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Dope-AS-Fack

According to the bible you should "stone to death a bad child" and "its alright to sell your daugther to slavery"

Of course christians dont follow these, they pick and choose whats right outa the bible

So do jews and muslims...and buddhists.

Religion is self-reinforcing.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

The case you're referring to is a US judge was ordered to remove a display of the ten commandments from his court, as this was deemed a violation of the separation of church and state. Do you not agree with that decision?


.

Funny I read this today.....just two days ago i was pretty much trounced by a guy for bringing up the same argumnt that the seperation of church and state was pretty clear cut.

I guess I always assumed it was part of the constitution of the USA....he in fact informed me that no such thing existed.

I havent had time to research this myself, but he is a VERY bright and articulate guy whom I have immense respect for, so I am now assuming he is in fact correct until I see otherwise.

Anyone know for sure or have a link to the wording where this exists?

[troutman]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Funny I read this today.....just two days ago i was pretty much trounced by a guy for bringing up the same argumnt that the seperation of church and state was pretty clear cut.

I guess I always assumed it was part of the constitution of the USA....he in fact informed me that no such thing existed.

I havent had time to research this myself, but he is a VERY bright and articulate guy whom I have immense respect for, so I am now assuming he is in fact correct until I see otherwise.

Anyone know for sure or have a link to the wording where this exists?

http://www.au.org/site/PageServer?pagename=issues

http://www.ffrf.org/purposes/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seperat...urch_and_state

The prevalence of the term "separation of church and state" is generally traced to a letter written by Thomas Jefferson in 1802 to the Danbury Baptists, in which he referred to the First Amendment of the United States Constitution as creating a "wall of separation" between church and state. The phrase was then quoted and endorsed by the United States Supreme Court first in 1878, and then in a series of cases starting in 1947. This led to popular and political discussion of the concept, as well as criticism that the phrase overstates the limits created under the Constitution.

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

[transplant99]

Again...there is no actual clause in the amendment to ensure seperation of church and state...if i am reading those links correctly.

The way they invoked the idea is to not use the word "god" within the Constitution...thereby ensuring that seperation would exist?

I was always under the beleif that there was wording within the constitution that specifcally addressed the whole issue...apparently there is not.

[Lanny_MacDonald]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Again...there is no actual clause in the amendment to ensure seperation of church and state...if i am reading those links correctly.

The way they invoked the idea is to not use the word "god" within the Constitution...thereby ensuring that seperation would exist?

I was always under the beleif that there was wording within the constitution that specifcally addressed the whole issue...apparently there is not.

I think people should actually spend some time reading the Constitution. They would be surprised what the document really says. They would be more outraged at some things and scratch their heads about some interpretations.

[troutman]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Again...there is no actual clause in the amendment to ensure seperation of church and state...if i am reading those links correctly.

The way they invoked the idea is to not use the word "god" within the Constitution...thereby ensuring that seperation would exist?

I was always under the beleif that there was wording within the constitution that specifcally addressed the whole issue...apparently there is not.

The Canadian Constituion is vaguely worded too:

Canada's constitution

Section 1 & 2 of The Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms states that certain freedoms are guaranteed and are subject "only to such reasonable limits that prescribed by law as can be demonstrably justified in a free and democratic society." Among these freedoms is are "freedom of conscience and religion..." These sections are vaguely similar to the free exercise clause of the 1st Amendment of the U.S. Constitution.

Other countries:

http://www.wikinfo.org/wiki.php?titl...urch_and_state

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Lanny_MacDonald

Timing is everything, and this article is perfectly timed, considering the death of Falwell. To show how crazy some of the Evangelists out there are, and the impact they are slowly having on America, this paper comes forward.

Dinosaurs on the Ark: the Creation Museum...

For those like myself who have been eager to read the whole essay that Lanny posted, but have been unable to do so because it requires a subscription, I managed to locate a free link to Asma's review of the Creation Museum at skeptic.com:

http://www.skeptic.com/eskeptic/07-05-23.html#feature

[troutman]

A Creation Museum will open in Central Alberta, and was featured in the Herald last week.

http://www.canada.com/calgaryherald/...1fcc9a&k=36556

It's a museum that claims dinosaurs once walked alongside humans, the genealogy of England's King Henry VI can be traced back to Adam and Eve, and evidence exists in Saskatchewan that a biblical global flood really happened.

And all the history of the world occurred in a little over 6,000 years, before which there was nothing.

Welcome to the Big Valley Creation Science Museum, set to open June.

[Burninator]

Right now I am reading Why Darwin Matters: The Case Against Intelligent Design by Micheal Shermer. I am over half through and it's a really interesting book on the ID/Creation debate. It presents all the ideas of the ID side and then smashes them to pieces with the evidence from the evolution side and well placed logic. Well written with lots of interesting thoughts. It also gives lots of insight into how the process of science works and how Intelligent Design and Creation is not science. The author, Micheal Shermer is also worth noting. He was once a Evangelical Christian but now is the editor of Skeptic magazine. I find it very hard to disagree with anything he says, everything he says if very thought out and presented quite well. Anyways I thought I would mention it for anyone interested.

Shermer (The Science of Good and Evil), founding editor of the Skeptic and Scientific American columnist, thoughtfully explains why intelligent design is both bad science and poor religion, how a wealth of scientific data from varied fields support evolution, and why religion and science need not be in conflict. Science and religion are two distinct realms, he argues: the natural and supernatural, respectively, and he cites Pope John Paul II in support of their possible coexistence. Shermer takes the "ten most cogent" arguments for intelligent design and refutes each in turn. While on the mark, the arguments' brevity may hamper their usefulness to all but those well versed in the debate. Looking for converts, Shermer offers a short chapter entitled "Why Christians and Conservatives Should Accept Evolution" (i.e., it "provides a scientific foundation" for their core values). His overall message is best summarized when he writes, "Darwin matters because evolution matters. Evolution matters because science matters. Science matters because it is the preeminent story of our age, an epic saga about who we are, where we came from and where we are going." Although there's not much new here, Shermer's wit and passion will appeal to many but won't convince believers.

Amazon Link

[Iowa_Flames_Fan]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Again...there is no actual clause in the amendment to ensure seperation of church and state...if i am reading those links correctly.

The way they invoked the idea is to not use the word "god" within the Constitution...thereby ensuring that seperation would exist?

I was always under the beleif that there was wording within the constitution that specifcally addressed the whole issue...apparently there is not.

I'm not a legal scholar--but to me, the key is "no law respecting any establishment of religion." I interpret that to mean that government can make no law that limits or curtails religious practice--and can make no law granting authority to any religious body--in essence, can make no law that says anything one way or another about religion.

Incidentally, the lack of "god" in the constitution is pretty significant--as is the use of the world "creator" in the declaration of independence. Jefferson and Adams were Deists, not Christians. Franklin was either a methodist or an atheist, depending on his mood.

Essentially, people who claim the U.S. was founded on "Christian Values" are full of it. But you'd be shocked how many people believe it to be true.

[troutman]

The dumbing down of Alberta continues . . .

Creationism museum opens in Alta
http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Science/...237312-cp.html

“Evolution is not a science — please, please don‘t call it a science,” Nibourg said

[nonsense] http://evolution.berkeley.edu/evolib...0_0_0/lines_01

Despite expectations of controversy, only about two dozen people, mainly media, watched as Earl Marshall, the reeve of Stettler county, snipped a black ribbon to declare the museum officially open.

Most people present said they knew Nibourg, and while they don’t necessarily agree with everything in the museum, they respect his right to express himself.

Mackie said it takes faith to believe in either theory.

[untrue - we require evidence to accept evolution, not faith]

http://www.talkorigins.org/origins/faqs-qa.html

[Lanny_MacDonald]

^^^^ Alberta is the most American AND conservative province in Canada, so I guess it only makes sense they should be succumbing to many of the same problems.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by troutman

“Evolution is not a science — please, please don‘t call it a science,” Nibourg said

Wow.

[photon]

I split off the posts about the creation museum to the existing thread, please use that thread for that topic thanks.

[Hack&Lube]

The conclusion of the article is quite potent:

"When I think, however, of the young children who are unprepared to critically assess the museum, my sense of humor fades. It is one thing to offer alternative histories, but to link huge branches of science with moral corruption is not going to be good for the cultivation of open-minded, curious citizens.

The socially conservative political stance of the museum is prevalent in almost every exhibit, but the coup de grâce is the "Culture in Crisis" exhibit. Here the museum gives us a "natural history" of the breakdown of the American family. Visitors are invited to look through three windows of a contemporary American home. Videos loop to show two young boys looking at porn on the computer and experimenting with drugs. Another window shows a young girl crying, surrounded by abortion pamphlets. And finally the parents are shown arguing. A re-created church facade stands at the other end of the room, but the foundation of the church has been damaged by a large wrecking ball labeled "millions of years." The signage explains that the cause of all this misery is our move away from Genesis and toward the scientific ideas of geology and evolution. Ideas about an old earth make people feel small and insignificant, so naturally they do drugs and have abortions.

It is sad to imagine what kind of attitude people will have toward science and the empirical study of nature when they have been raised to believe that such studies cause nihilism and immorality. I guess the dinosaurs really are on the ark with us. Let's hope they're vegetarian after all."

And those who want to see the whole article without registration, get the google cache, it should be legal.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by troutman

A Creation Museum will open in Central Alberta, and was featured in the Herald last week.

http://www.canada.com/calgaryherald/...1fcc9a&k=36556

It's a museum that claims dinosaurs once walked alongside humans, the genealogy of England's King Henry VI can be traced back to Adam and Eve, and evidence exists in Saskatchewan that a biblical global flood really happened.

And all the history of the world occurred in a little over 6,000 years, before which there was nothing.

Welcome to the Big Valley Creation Science Museum, set to open June.

I don't buy into creationism a bit but there is some tradition that the Stone of Scones under the throne of England is the Stone of Jacob that has followed the descendents of David to the present Royal family, so I guess he can trace the geneology back to his Adam and Eve. No scientific evidence that I know of, but here's the story.

http://www.johnpratt.com/items/docs/...03/throne.html

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Hack&Lube

[citing Steven Asma]"...It is sad to imagine what kind of attitude people will have toward science and the empirical study of nature when they have been raised to believe that such studies cause nihilism and immorality. I guess the dinosaurs really are on the ark with us. Let's hope they're vegetarian after all."

That says it all right there, doesn't it? The fear of hell and damnation—which is really no different at all than an irrational fear of God—can cause people some asinine delusions...Stop thinking. Lest God hate you for it.

[Hack&Lube]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

That says it all right there, doesn't it? The fear of hell and damnation—which is really no different at all than an irrational fear of God—can cause people some asinine delusions...Stop thinking. Lest God hate you for it.

Heck, the whole fall of man was from eating the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil!