CalgaryNEXT Discussion pt. 2

[TopChed]

Originally Posted by Rhettzky

For the infrastructure and remediation costs it would be because the City included the cost for all of West Village. Flames said it's unfair that their project should be responsible for the whole cost.

I believe in their presentation they said that Calgary next would make up 11% of what would be the west village.

I love the logic here (from the Flames). They want ~92% of the CRL designated for West Village, but then jump back to only being responsible for 11% of the area when it comes to infrastructure and remediation.

[Weitz]

Originally Posted by getbak

One of the things that Bean said at the STH event a couple of weeks ago was that the city report basically budgeted to do the same work twice. For the clean-up costs, it includes the costs of cleaning the soil and returning the site to bare ground for construction. Then, the construction costs include going from the bare ground.

In reality, you would never do it that way. You'd dig up the contaminated soil, then put the building right into the hole you've already dug.

That's one of the sources of savings he mentioned.

Can you get Rec certs on open excavations? I didn't think you could.

[Robbob]

I think the idea is you would get the reclamation certification as you are ready to build in that phase. Bean mentioned that there was a project in Vancouver that has been done this way. Essentially the whole remediation cost isn't all at once. Just when they break ground for a project. The example in Vancouver has been incrementally done over the last 20 years apparently.

[woob]

Every time I hear King talk about this project, I feel like he never says anything of true substance and that he's blowing smoke up everyone's rear. The renderings are still awful.

Really, is this anything more than a chess game at this point?

[cam_wmh]

Originally Posted by MattyC

Yeah I was going to say, real grass would probably help the heat problem, but don't know how feasible that would be.

I dunno, as a goalie, I liked the field. Despite getting covered in little chunks of black rubber, it was a lot nicer to dive and land than on the majority of the fields around town.

Keeper too. They use too much rubber to try and compensate.

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

Does the baking have more to do with the black 'chips' or whatever you would call them in the turf?

Yep.

[mhsyyc]

It's easy to hate them and to mock them but as I sit here in my hotel room in Edmonton I can see the new building out my window. They will have a beautiful new facility while we look like blathering idiots for years to come.

[Mr.Coffee]

It doesn't ####ing matter what Edmonton does or doesn't do. This project has nothing to do with Edmonton. Who gives a rats ass about Edmonton? So they have a new building that their city was too stupid to realize it was an awful deal. Congratulations.

That is a lousy appeal to emotion to win a massive business deal that is horrifyingly one sided. I love how the Flames are like ok we are ready to negotiate now. Which is exactly the problem. Their first offer wasn't worth negotiating.

Also, the project still looks like a gigantic train wreck.

[DirtyMike]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

It doesn't ####ing matter what Edmonton does or doesn't do. This project has nothing to do with Edmonton. Who gives a rats ass about Edmonton? So they have a new building that their city was too stupid to realize it was an awful deal. Congratulations.

That is a lousy appeal to emotion to win a massive business deal that is horrifyingly one sided. I love how the Flames are like ok we are ready to negotiate now. Which is exactly the problem. Their first offer wasn't worth negotiating.

Also, the project still looks like a gigantic train wreck.

Sorry to say but I think it does matter what Edmonton, and the rest of the NHL is doing. Calgary will have essentially the oldest rink in the NHL, which is one indication of our need for a new rink.

Get pissy all you want, but I think Edmonton's rink has done, and will do a lot for their downtown. The West Village should eventually be remediated, and building an arena is one of the options that should be considered. I would highly doubt that that enough condos or office buildings could take up that entire area, so an arena there makes some sense.

But maybe you really like Jeeps and think the dealership and bus station should stay put.

[monkeyman]

If we want to compete with Edmonton, the city needs to give Cadillac Fairview a sweetheart deal on a new state of the art mall for the site, complete with a water park, amusement park and the same store in four different locations. and from what i hear, it would only require 8 shuttle busses.

[Kavvy]

Originally Posted by DirtyMike

Sorry to say but I think it does matter what Edmonton, and the rest of the NHL is doing. Calgary will have essentially the oldest rink in the NHL, which is one indication of our need for a new rink.

Get pissy all you want, but I think Edmonton's rink has done, and will do a lot for their downtown. The West Village should eventually be remediated, and building an arena is one of the options that should be considered. I would highly doubt that that enough condos or office buildings could take up that entire area, so an arena there makes some sense.

But maybe you really like Jeeps and think the dealership and bus station should stay put.

Edmonton and Calgary's downtown needs are apples and oranges.

Edmonton's arena spurred growth in an area that the City decided badly needed it - and I think they were right about it (although I disagree with the funding model).

For Calgary, never mind funding models, the Flames have decided to pick a piece of land that will spur growth in one area that will leach development from other needed area's in the city core.

CalgaryNEXT doesn't compliment our downtown plan as Edmonton's arena did, it hurts it.

Short answer - yes, for now, the dealership and bus station should stay put considering the options on the table.

[Flash Walken]

Speaking of Edmonton, I would say King's presentation this time was visually better.

[Senator Clay Davis]

Shuttle buses lol. It's almost as if they're intentionally making CalgaryNEXT look as bad and amateurish as possible. East side arena it is then.

[underGRADFlame]

Originally Posted by Kavvy

CalgaryNEXT doesn't compliment our downtown plan as Edmonton's arena did, it hurts it.

That is an assumption on your part, and everyone knows what happens when you assume.

[DirtyMike]

Originally Posted by Kavvy

Edmonton and Calgary's downtown needs are apples and oranges.

Edmonton's arena spurred growth in an area that the City decided badly needed it - and I think they were right about it (although I disagree with the funding model).

For Calgary, never mind funding models, the Flames have decided to pick a piece of land that will spur growth in one area that will leach development from other needed area's in the city core.

CalgaryNEXT doesn't compliment our downtown plan as Edmonton's arena did, it hurts it.

Short answer - yes, for now, the dealership and bus station should stay put considering the options on the table.

How does it hurt Calgary's downtown? You mean people are going to stop flocking to the Stampede grounds or Cowboys after games? If the arena is the impetus to build condos that bring thousands of people closer to downtown that does indeed compliment downtown.

I would also disagree that the west village isn't in need of development. That amount of undeveloped land in the centre of a major Canadian city presents a major opportunity to be developed, and it's currently being underutilized.

The funding model may not work, yet, but in my view CalgaryNext is an option that is at least worth further consideration.

[jmac98]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

Shuttle buses lol. It's almost as if they're intentionally making CalgaryNEXT look as bad and amateurish as possible. East side arena it is then.

Shuttle buses mentioned this early or otherwise if at all just basically admits from the outset there's significant parking issues at this location.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Kavvy

For Calgary, never mind funding models, the Flames have decided to pick a piece of land that will spur growth in one area that will leach development from other needed area's in the city core.

CalgaryNEXT doesn't compliment our downtown plan as Edmonton's arena did, it hurts it.

That's not what I understand.

The city already had a plan built in 2010 to develop the west village, the Flames have altered that plan with this proposal.

Additionally an Alderman (Aluquart?) said they had the group that developed the East Village approach them about developing the West Village at the same time given their gains in the East.

I think the CSEC has done a poor job of telling their story, but I do think they are trying to plug into the city's needs and plans.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Kavvy

Edmonton and Calgary's downtown needs are apples and oranges.

Edmonton's arena spurred growth in an area that the City decided badly needed it - and I think they were right about it (although I disagree with the funding model).

For Calgary, never mind funding models, the Flames have decided to pick a piece of land that will spur growth in one area that will leach development from other needed area's in the city core.

CalgaryNEXT doesn't compliment our downtown plan as Edmonton's arena did, it hurts it.

Short answer - yes, for now, the dealership and bus station should stay put considering the options on the table.

No it doesn't. Let's try and keep the hyperbole to a minimum.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by jmac98

Shuttle buses mentioned this early or otherwise if at all just basically admits from the outset there's significant parking issues at this location.

Parking issues were anticipated from the start. The Flames even said in the initial press conference that their intention was people would park throughout downtown.

What the shuttle buses indicate is that the Flames have realized that the LRT - which runs east-west only - won't be able to support an influx of fans from all directions around the arena complex. And that, like many other things, is something else the team should have already anticipated.

[troutman]

When Peace Bridge II gets built around 19th St NW, West Hillhurst will become like the communities around McMahon for parking, except instead of 10 nights per year it could be more like 100.

[LanceUppercut]

http://calgaryherald.com/news/politi...-has-suspended

The Alberta government has stopped accepting applications for the community revitalization levy — the very program essential to the CalgaryNEXT plan for a new hockey rink, field house and football field.


The levy will be up for discussion by Premier Rachel Notley’s cabinet. It’s possible that the program could be cancelled, or altered to produce less revenue for a project.


Mayor Naheed Nenshi says that without the levy, CalgaryNEXT in its current form couldn’t go ahead.

This could be really bad news for CSEC, no CRL no CalgaryNEXT.