[GDT] Flames vs Stars - 6:30 - SNet-Cgy

[SuperMatt18]

Gaudreau will never be a Selke candidate and will never dominate in the corners but will have to use his stick and hockey IQ in the defensive zone to make smart plays. Guys like St.Louis and Fleury were not great defensively but they were good with their stick and are able to generate takeaways by playing smart hockey and using their speed. Gaudreau will have to do that to succeed in the NHL.

St.Louis is one of the smallest guys in the NHL but is frequently in the top 20 in the league for takeaways. Patrick Kane is another small guy who has jumped into the top 20 these last 2 seasons while improving his overall game. Gaudreau will have to provide that skill to be able to be successful in the NHL. No team will be successful when they are consistently playing 5 vs 4 in their own end in the NHL.

To get back to the main topic Sven isn't that small, and at this point plays smaller then he actually is. Sven is listed at 5'11", same height as guys like Datsyuk, Steen, Callahan, M.Richards, etc who are all quite good 200ft players.

Sven is actually listed as 2 inches taller and 10 lbs heavier then Brendan Gallagher but Gallagher is much more effective using his size. As mentioned though the benching still doesn't make sense, since you could see he was actively working on that part of his game and trying to improve it.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by HartAttack

Find a hobby.

Isn't following a hockey team as closely as many of us follow this team count as a hobby?

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by MisterJoji

Some of these posts are pure gold. There's nothing wrong with holding Sven accountable. I can see some disappointment with the decision, but he hasn't exactly lit it up lately, he's been okay. Maybe Hartley want more than "okay" out of him. I agree his defensive play has improved lately, but I really don't see it as the end of the world for him to watch a game from the pressbox. You know what team has never held their young guys accountable (up until a few days ago)? Edmonton. Seems to be working well for those guys.

As far as Glencross, I'll agree he probably deserves to sit more than Sven, but historically he has been very streaky, and has generally been one of our best offensive weapons. We need him to start scoring again and whether sitting him would accomplish that or you just have to let him play through this funk is up to the professionals. It's easy to be an arm chair GM but I think I'll go with the guys who have more of a view of the team than from up in the peanut gallery.

Finally, I can't believe some people are disappointed about Stajan returning because it bumped Sven out of the line up. This isn't Brent Sutter's Stajan coming back. The Glencross - Stajan - Stempniak line was our best last year and Stajan is our only Center who can consistently win draws.

I get that some people would rather get rid of Cammy, Stajan, Butler, etc. so that Reinhart, Knight, Hanowski, Sieloff, etc. get some NHL ice time, but that is recipe for disaster and the mantra this year is to be a hard working team and not accept losing, despite expectations from all the experts that this is a 30th place team. It's always nice to see some of our prospects play but having Cammy and Stajan in the line up gives us a much better chance to win than Reinhart and Hanowski would.

I completely agree that players should be held accountable.

So who on the Flames so far this season do you think deserves to be held accountable?

Do you think Baertschi does?

You said yourself that you think his defensive play has improved. Pretty much everyone agrees that his effort has been there. And most agree that his defensive play has been good, or at worst adequate.

So I ask again, do you think he deserves to be held accountable?

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Gaudreau will never be a Selke candidate and will never dominate in the corners but will have to use his stick and hockey IQ in the defensive zone to make smart plays. Guys like St.Louis and Fleury were not great defensively but they were good with their stick and are able to generate takeaways by playing smart hockey and using their speed. Gaudreau will have to do that to succeed in the NHL.

To get back to the main topic Sven isn't that small, and at this point plays smaller then he actually is. Sven is listed at 5'11", same height as guys like Datsyuk, Steen, Callahan, M.Richards, etc who are all quite good 200ft players.

Sven is actually listed as 2 inches taller and 10 lbs heavier then Brendan Gallagher but Gallagher is much more effective using his size.

I agree that Sven plays smaller than he actually is. IMO he's one of those guys that is just going to take longer to physically mature into the NHL game. The skill is there but he's not strong enough.

[HartAttack]

Originally Posted by Kaine

Like calling out other posters in a thread, adding nothing to the conversation? Take it to tells as what you just posted is against the forums TOS if I'm not mistaken and I'm pretty sure nobody wants to hear it. I'd hate to report someone for something so silly.

Through the 4 or 5 thanks I gave out for previous posters in this thread, I've shared my thoughts without polluting the thread board. Obviously my 1 post won't sit well with some, but a bit of a difference between that 1 post and the 10-20 over-reacting and very defensive posts from that guy. Takes the fun out of debating issues.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by HartAttack

Through the 4 or 5 thanks I gave out for previous posters in this thread, I've shared my thoughts without polluting the thread board. Obviously my 1 post won't sit well with some, but a bit of a difference between that 1 post and the 10-20 over-reacting and very defensive posts from that guy. Takes the fun out of debating issues.

I'm not going to give you the response you're trying to get out of me, but I suggest you and anyone else who doesn't like my posts put me on ignore. Everything I've said in this thread is completely within the rules of the forum, even if it's not consistent with your popular thought.

I'd also suggest you don't follow me on twitter if you can't stand what I write.

[HartAttack]

nm

[Passe La Puck]

Originally Posted by Puddy27

Pavel Datsyuk says hello.

So, one?

[Fan in Exile]

Okay, so not many people like Baertschi being sat out. Me neither.

How does everyone feel about Butler being on the first pairing?
http://flames.nhl.com/club/news.htm?...id=DL|CGY|home

I know he and Brodie will realistically be the second pairing (assuming Giordano doesn't play) but still...should be an interesting night. I shudder to see the reactions if the Flames get spanked.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by Fan in Exile

Okay, so not many people like Baertschi being sat out. Me neither.

How does everyone feel about Butler being on the first pairing?
http://flames.nhl.com/club/news.htm?...id=DL|CGY|home

I know he and Brodie will realistically be the second pairing (assuming Giordano doesn't play) but still...should be an interesting night. I shudder to see the reactions if the Flames get spanked.

Clearly Butler is meeting the expectations of the coaches and is an example for our younger defencemen of a player they should aspire to be.

I mean, if we're going to use the argument that Baertschi is simply being held accountable, and all.

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Originally Posted by Makarov

After suffering through debacles like the Gilbert-Savard fiasco, I don't think you can blame the fan base for being a little paranoid.

Sure if Gilbert was still the coach or still had anything to do with this organization and that wasn't 15 years ago.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Fan in Exile

Okay, so not many people like Baertschi being sat out. Me neither.

How does everyone feel about Butler being on the first pairing?
http://flames.nhl.com/club/news.htm?...id=DL|CGY|home

I know he and Brodie will realistically be the second pairing (assuming Giordano doesn't play) but still...should be an interesting night. I shudder to see the reactions if the Flames get spanked.

lol - that should cause a stir!

but the Wideman - Russell pairing has been working, so it makes sense to leave them together. That means one of Butler, O'Brien or Breen has to move up with Brodie

Butler is probably the right answer, but I would be inclined to try Breen (at least for a few shifts)

[Flame19,289]

I don't really have a problem with Sven sitting for a game or two. Different players are motivated in different ways. Maybe Sven is more apt to react to sticks than carrots.

But, I think this is more about balancing out the lines and giving the team a decent chance to win some more face-offs and play a good puck possession game. Replacing Baertschi with Cammalleri on the Monahan line allows for a few more face-off wins (Monahan hasn't exactly been killing it in the face-off department). With Stajan also back to center the line with Glencross and Stempniak, the Flames should improve at the face-off dot tonight.

Yeah, I'd rather have Baertschi in the game rather than Jackman, but not if it means that he's playing on the 4th line. Have him sit for a game or two and then let someone else have a turn. Depth is a good thing.

[Psytic]

Originally Posted by Fan in Exile

Okay, so not many people like Baertschi being sat out. Me neither.

How does everyone feel about Butler being on the first pairing?
http://flames.nhl.com/club/news.htm?...id=DL|CGY|home

I know he and Brodie will realistically be the second pairing (assuming Giordano doesn't play) but still...should be an interesting night. I shudder to see the reactions if the Flames get spanked.

Butler on the first pair. Uhhhhh.

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

I completely agree that players should be held accountable.

So who on the Flames so far this season do you think deserves to be held accountable?

Do you think Baertschi does?

You said yourself that you think his defensive play has improved. Pretty much everyone agrees that his effort has been there. And most agree that his defensive play has been good, or at worst adequate.

So I ask again, do you think he deserves to be held accountable?

I agree, you bench a player like Glencross to hold him "accountable". You bench Giordano, to hold him accountable. You can bench a Stempniak or a Stajan to hold them accountable. That's really the only reason you'd bench players like that.

You can bench Sven, for multiple reasons. Most of which would be to teach. Whether that's to teach a lesson, whether that's to teach through observation or a multitude of these things.

This is where these conversations go off the rails. People keep wanting this "even" playing field for all the players, and consistent treatment paths. Glencross has been worse than Sven, therefor Sven cannot sit until Glencross has been sat. If coaches deviate from this, it's not fair, it's not just, blah, blah, blah.... It's not that black and white, benching Sven doesn't even mean the coaching staff thinks he's been worse than Glencross, just means it what they think will benefit him, and given we are dealing with multi million dollar athletes who are getting paid to play, versus 13 year olds who's parents are paying for them to play, it doesn't matter if it's fair, it just matters if it helps accomplishes the long term goals the coahces have for the player.

I'd much rather be watching Sven play tonight than not from a fans perspective, but in a re-building year, with an away game, I'm really glad the aren't making decisions based on entertaining the fans.

[dissentowner]

I have no problem with the Flames deciding Sven needs to sit and watch a game. My problem is the free passes some vets are getting on this club. Baertschi has been way better than Glencross, if it is about your play meriting ice time then Glencross should be scratched. Why does he get a free pass just because he is a vet who wears an A? He has been much worse than Sven. Why is Jackman in? All he has done is taken stupid penalties to hurt his team.

[Super-Rye]

Originally Posted by Fan in Exile

Okay, so not many people like Baertschi being sat out. Me neither.

How does everyone feel about Butler being on the first pairing?
http://flames.nhl.com/club/news.htm?...id=DL|CGY|home

I know he and Brodie will realistically be the second pairing (assuming Giordano doesn't play) but still...should be an interesting night. I shudder to see the reactions if the Flames get spanked.

With Gio injured who else is supposed to slide into the top 4? Breen? O'Brien? Calgary doesn't have a lot of depth on d. This is something we all saw coming into the season.

As for Sven I thought he has played well this season and I'm a little surprised that they benched him, but realistically young players get benched sometimes. At some point Monahan will probably take a seat too. Doesn't mean they are playing bad, just means they have a lot more to learn.

[djsFlames]

People need to lay off ashasx.

Just a horde of hyenas in here, jeesus. Dude is allowed to have an opinion, as radical as you may perceive it to be. I think all can agree that baertschi getting this treatment for said reasons while glencross receives a pass is a total joke.

[TurnedTheCorner]

Originally Posted by Fan in Exile

Okay, so not many people like Baertschi being sat out. Me neither.

How does everyone feel about Butler being on the first pairing?
http://flames.nhl.com/club/news.htm?...id=DL|CGY|home

I know he and Brodie will realistically be the second pairing (assuming Giordano doesn't play) but still...should be an interesting night. I shudder to see the reactions if the Flames get spanked.

Butler won't get as many minutes as Wideman, Brodie, or Russel. But him getting the 4th most minutes on D for the Flames tonight is also not a good thing.

[MisterJoji]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

I completely agree that players should be held accountable.

So who on the Flames so far this season do you think deserves to be held accountable?

Do you think Baertschi does?

You said yourself that you think his defensive play has improved. Pretty much everyone agrees that his effort has been there. And most agree that his defensive play has been good, or at worst adequate.

So I ask again, do you think he deserves to be held accountable?

His offence. His defence has improved to adequate at best which is probably "good enough" for one of your more offensive guys, but he hasn't been on the scoresheet often. 4 points in 9 games, 2 straight games with 0 points and no multi-point games this season. Not horrible but definite room for improvement. Not to mention his line-mates have been scoring in bunches so it's not the quality of players he's playing with that's the problem. He could probably use more PP time, but when you're not scoring even strength, your not going to get much PP time.

It's easy to say sit Glencross and give Sven his minutes, but I'm sure Hartley has his reasons. It's not like he woke up and said "How can I start a meltdown on CP today?" Everyone on the team should be held accountable, but I'm not sure you can treat such a diverse group of players in the exact same way to be held accountable. Pure conjecture but maybe having Stajan back tonight, he's hoping for Glencross-Stajan-Stempniak to gain some traction again. Maybe he's already had a 1 on 1 discussion with Glencross about his play, maybe there are other extenuating circumstances that we are not privy to. I'm sure Hartley's not just playing favourites and wins/losses be damned. Same goes for Butler, I'm sure Hartley is aware of some of his poor play but who else gets put in? No one on the farm is exactly knocking on the door and Breen just got back from injury.

Also, it's ONE game, no need to get our panties in a twist yet. At the beginning of the year if someone would've told us that after 9 games we'd be 4-3-2, I'm sure most would be ecstatic.