Going paperless, Ald. Dale Hodges and the series of tubes

[fredr123]

http://www.canada.com/calgaryherald/...e-c67939befcc7

Nine city aldermen will stop getting paper copies of municipal reports and council agendas this fall.

The switch to electronic documents, tested by Ald. Brian Pincott since June, will reduce the amount of paper being used by council members.

"There's a small forest that we mow down every single year for our agendas," Pincott said Thursday. "It can be a binder minimum -- four inches thick -- to sometimes two of them.

"That's a lot of paper that ultimately we don't really need to have that is all available electronically."

The move is expected to save a considerable amount of paper and, in turn, a lot of money for Council. Not everyone is on board with the plan, however:

Ald. Dale Hodges, who has been on council since 1983, said he won't be one of them.

"I want to be papered," he said. "I'm not signed up."

Hodges said he prefers having a physical agenda, partly because he'd have to wire his house with Internet connections so he could go through council documents in the evenings and on weekends.

"With a paper agenda, I haul it home, I haul it in the back of my car, I haul in the front of my car and put it in the trunk of my car or wherever it will fit," said Hodges.

Ladies and gentlemen, Ward 1 Alderman, my friend and yours, Dale Hodges. Here's a guy with his finger on the proverbial button of this city and he doesn't have internet at home? Guess he's afraid that if his secretary sends him an internet today he might not get until Tuesday. It could get held up by enormous amounts of material and have to wait in line. It's not a big truck, people.


In fairness to Ald. Hodges he's not the only one on council who has refrained from going paperless. He is the only one, however, made to sound like a Luddite with his ridiculous reasons.


I've heard stories from colleagues about older gentlemen who work in their office and distrust email. They have their assistants print out all their emails so they can be read in paper form before an appropriate response is dictated.

[Caged Great]

So, someone is worried about an alderman who doesn't use the internet having too much power. It's not like he's running for president of the US or anything....

I actually know Hodges and he is old school, but he's a very intelligent person and probably the smartest of the alderman. I wouldn't worry about him not using a computer at all.

[Slava]

I wish they mentioned who the other councillors were that are not going paperless here. If mine were one of them I would be sending a letter of protest right away.

Seems ridiculous to need a paper copy of everything. If you can't follow an agenda electronically maybe you ought not to have input in the millions of dollars of spending that you help oversee each year.

[kermitology]

Originally Posted by Caged Great

So, someone is worried about an alderman who doesn't use the internet having too much power. It's not like he's running for president of the US or anything....

I actually know Hodges and he is old school, but he's a very intelligent person and probably the smartest of the alderman. I wouldn't worry about him not using a computer at all.

Tell him to buy a wireless router and a laptop then.. One wire.. that's all.

[burn_this_city]

Maybe they could send Hodges the documents electronically via morse code since the internet is way to advanced to wire into his house.

[fredr123]

Originally Posted by Caged Great

So, someone is worried about an alderman who doesn't use the internet having too much power. It's not like he's running for president of the US or anything....

I actually know Hodges and he is old school, but he's a very intelligent person and probably the smartest of the alderman. I wouldn't worry about him not using a computer at all.

I'm not sure who the someone is that you're referring to. If it's me, then I guess you misinterpreted the entire tone of my post. Yours probably was too, to a degree.

There are plenty of times when having a paper copy of something is more convenient. We're talking about a lot of paper here, though. Enough paper that he feels compelled to haul it around not in his briefcase but in the trunk of his car. At that point, you've got to give serious consideration to reducing that paper and using electronic formats is a great start. You don't want to give it a try because you would have to wire up your house for internets? That's kind of weak.

Originally Posted by Slava

I wish they mentioned who the other councillors were that are not going paperless here. If mine were one of them I would be sending a letter of protest right away.

Seems ridiculous to need a paper copy of everything. If you can't follow an agenda electronically maybe you ought not to have input in the millions of dollars of spending that you help oversee each year.

Make sure it's an old school letter. They may have problems receiving an email if it has to get in line in the tubes.

Yah, Hodges is probably being picked on unfairly. For all we know, the mayor doesn't use a computer at home either.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by fredr123

I'm not sure who the someone is that you're referring to. If it's me, then I guess you misinterpreted the entire tone of my post. Yours probably was too, to a degree.

There are plenty of times when having a paper copy of something is more convenient. We're talking about a lot of paper here, though. Enough paper that he feels compelled to haul it around not in his briefcase but in the trunk of his car. At that point, you've got to give serious consideration to reducing that paper and using electronic formats is a great start. You don't want to give it a try because you would have to wire up your house for internets? That's kind of weak.



Make sure it's an old school letter. They may have problems receiving an email if it has to get in line in the tubes.

Yah, Hodges is probably being picked on unfairly. For all we know, the mayor doesn't use a computer at home either.

Its not just kind of weak...its pathetic. Clearly the man is a dinosaur and time has passed him by. If this isn't a sign of new blood needed on city council than I don't know what is.

[ernie]

Personally I prefer a hard copy of any finalized documents. I find them easier to read and I tend to concentrate on them better which leads to better and more rapid inderstanding. Also, my filing cabinet doesn't tend to crash or get corrupted.

Though every once in awhile I have trouble finding the key.

[Caged Great]

Originally Posted by fredr123

I'm not sure who the someone is that you're referring to. If it's me, then I guess you misinterpreted the entire tone of my post. Yours probably was too, to a degree.

Actually, that was more a dig at McCain who doesn't know how to use a computer. Anyway, some people are just a lot more comfortable with the actual physical document in hand than just having it on a computer. Personally, I would probably do the same thing even though I'm decently computer savvy. It is more comfortable to relax and read a piece of paper than to have to lean in to read the info on the screen.

[MoneyGuy]

I'm an alderman in another city in Alberta. We went to e-agendas nearly a year ago, just after the last election. I'm in my 50s and my generation doesn't find it as easy as younger folks do to wade through electronic information. There is something to be said for having paper, and some people are not comfortable with electronic documents. You can write on paper, you can highlight things, you can fold over the corner of a page with paper. We do have a sticky-label program to allow us to write notes on our agenda package. It's harder to wade though electronic agendas and to find things, including going back and finding things you looked at earlier but want to review again, for example. My council has a couple of older members (60s/early 70s) and to their credit they've adapted very well. All of us love it but it took some getting used to. Both are pretty computer literate. While I love the e-agendas, I'm sympathetic to others who aren't as comfy with this. If you read novels, maybe you like e-books but there is something to be said for having a book that you can hold in your hands. I've read one novel electronically and much prefer the paper book. I just urge you to be a little more tolerant and understanding of someone who is from another era - didn't grow up with computers as most of you did. I saw a discussion on some forum where younger folks were discussing their parents' computer illiteracy and I was surprised how many said their parents have no idea how to use a computer. Be patient with older folks who may find it hard to do what you take for granted.

Whew, long post, sorry.

[CMPunk]

If he wants a paper copy, why doesn't he just print it out for his own personal use?

[dobbles]

Originally Posted by CMPunk

If he wants a paper copy, why doesn't he just print it out for his own personal use?

yeah, theres a solution. he can get on the internet at a public library, and download and print off the agenda at his own cost. i think he would switch to electronic real quick.

[CMPunk]

Originally Posted by dobbles

yeah, theres a solution. he can get on the internet at a public library, and download and print off the agenda at his own cost. i think he would switch to electronic real quick.

Well unless they're expected to work 24/7..he'd be able to get everything printed off by his assistant before he went home every night, and then have it all waiting for him again when he came in in the morning

[fredr123]

Originally Posted by MoneyGuy

I'm an alderman in another city in Alberta. We went to e-agendas nearly a year ago, just after the last election. I'm in my 50s and my generation doesn't find it as easy as younger folks do to wade through electronic information. There is something to be said for having paper, and some people are not comfortable with electronic documents. You can write on paper, you can highlight things, you can fold over the corner of a page with paper. We do have a sticky-label program to allow us to write notes on our agenda package. It's harder to wade though electronic agendas and to find things, including going back and finding things you looked at earlier but want to review again, for example. My council has a couple of older members (60s/early 70s) and to their credit they've adapted very well. All of us love it but it took some getting used to. Both are pretty computer literate. While I love the e-agendas, I'm sympathetic to others who aren't as comfy with this. If you read novels, maybe you like e-books but there is something to be said for having a book that you can hold in your hands. I've read one novel electronically and much prefer the paper book. I just urge you to be a little more tolerant and understanding of someone who is from another era - didn't grow up with computers as most of you did. I saw a discussion on some forum where younger folks were discussing their parents' computer illiteracy and I was surprised how many said their parents have no idea how to use a computer. Be patient with older folks who may find it hard to do what you take for granted.

Whew, long post, sorry.

Valid point and a good post. If I may be so bold (and if it doesn't involve releasing privileged or sensitive information) how has the move to an e-agenda system affected your budget? In the quoted article, it was noted that over $250,000 was saved by the City of Calgary in one year alone when they decided to stop reproducing paper copies of committee reports.

There are a lot of good reasons to try an e-agenda system: save money, save the environment, etc. There are a few good reasons to stick with paper copies, but a reluctance to wire your home for the internet is not one of them.

Personally, we didn't get our first PC until I was in junior high. My first real taste of the internet didn't come until I moved to Calgary for university (and that was in the days of dial up). I am also as guilty as the next guy of printing out cases in order to digest on the bus or in a comfy chair with a cup of coffee.

[Traditional_Ale]

Originally Posted by MoneyGuy

I'm an alderman in another city in Alberta. We went to e-agendas nearly a year ago, just after the last election. I'm in my 50s and my generation doesn't find it as easy as younger folks do to wade through electronic information. There is something to be said for having paper, and some people are not comfortable with electronic documents. You can write on paper, you can highlight things, you can fold over the corner of a page with paper. We do have a sticky-label program to allow us to write notes on our agenda package. It's harder to wade though electronic agendas and to find things, including going back and finding things you looked at earlier but want to review again, for example. My council has a couple of older members (60s/early 70s) and to their credit they've adapted very well. All of us love it but it took some getting used to. Both are pretty computer literate. While I love the e-agendas, I'm sympathetic to others who aren't as comfy with this. If you read novels, maybe you like e-books but there is something to be said for having a book that you can hold in your hands. I've read one novel electronically and much prefer the paper book. I just urge you to be a little more tolerant and understanding of someone who is from another era - didn't grow up with computers as most of you did. I saw a discussion on some forum where younger folks were discussing their parents' computer illiteracy and I was surprised how many said their parents have no idea how to use a computer. Be patient with older folks who may find it hard to do what you take for granted.

Whew, long post, sorry.

Well done for learning the computer! I understand the difficulty and you are most certainly an exemplary credit to your age group!

Adapting to the computer age, if for nothing else than enviornmental stewdardship is something to be taken very seriously. Not mentioning the fact that we live in 2008 and computer communications are the way of the world.

I agree with the poster who said that this is very obvious proof that Alderman Hodges is not appropriate for the position anymore.

Actually, he's pathetically obsolete.

If one cannot use a computer effectively in 2008, they have no business in public office. The fact that the people in charge can be so arrogant as to tell us what to do while they feel justified in living in their 1980 mentality makes me sick.

[MoneyGuy]

Originally Posted by Traditional_Ale

Well done for learning the computer! I understand the difficulty and you are most certainly an exemplary credit to your age group!

Adapting to the computer age, if for nothing else than enviornmental stewdardship is something to be taken very seriously. Not mentioning the fact that we live in 2008 and computer communications are the way of the world.

I agree with the poster who said that this is very obvious proof that Alderman Hodges is not appropriate for the position anymore.

Actually, he's pathetically obsolete.

If one cannot use a computer effectively in 2008, they have no business in public office. The fact that the people in charge can be so arrogant as to tell us what to do while they feel justified in living in their 1980 mentality makes me sick.

Hey, I didn't learn computers just yesterday. YOu make it sound like I learned computers just for this. Exemplary for my age group? Give me a break; you make me sound ancient. I bought my first computer nearly two decades ago. It was a 95 MB beauty (a friend thought 95 was a lot) and the PC and printer cost me $3500. My computers now have many times the capability at a small fraction of the cost. I disagree that someone who is not computer literate is obsolete. I've met some of your council members but don't know the alderman in question but someone can be a great alderman despite not understanding computers. I'm a financial planner and I use computers all the time but I know colleagues who are great at what they do but don't understand computers.

Fredr, I'll get the information you asked for.

[dobbles]

Originally Posted by CMPunk

Well unless they're expected to work 24/7..he'd be able to get everything printed off by his assistant before he went home every night, and then have it all waiting for him again when he came in in the morning

i didn't realize being on a city council was a 9-5 union job that can't have any expectations of additional work... its the cost and resources that the city want to save. if he thinks its still reasonable to waste all that paper, he should do it himself. thats all i am implying.

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by MoneyGuy

Hey, I didn't learn computers just yesterday. YOu make it sound like I learned computers just for this. Exemplary for my age group? Give me a break; you make me sound ancient. I bought my first computer nearly two decades ago. It was a 95 MB beauty (a friend thought 95 was a lot) and the PC and printer cost me $3500. My computers now have many times the capability at a small fraction of the cost. I disagree that someone who is not computer literate is obsolete. I've met some of your council members but don't know the alderman in question but someone can be a great alderman despite not understanding computers. I'm a financial planner and I use computers all the time but I know colleagues who are great at what they do but don't understand computers.

Fredr, I'll get the information you asked for.

Admit it, you need to computer at work to read Calgary Puck while other aldermen don't

[CMPunk]

Originally Posted by dobbles

i didn't realize being on a city council was a 9-5 union job that can't have any expectations of additional work... its the cost and resources that the city want to save. if he thinks its still reasonable to waste all that paper, he should do it himself. thats all i am implying.

Well if he doesn't have the net at home, then how's he getting the paperwork at home on the weekends and after hours now?

[MoneyGuy]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

Admit it, you need to computer at work to read Calgary Puck while other aldermen don't

Just so you know, that's not my full-time job. I spend 40o-plus hours a week doing something else. But I do like to come on here. I'm an Oilers/Esks fan who likes to see what the enemy are up to.