Tipping Policy II

[Agamemnon]

Thought of this from the other thread, and thought it a cool (ahem) enough issue to warrant its own thread.

Have you guys ever seen Resevoir Dogs? I love Steve Buschemi's argument on why he doesn't tip. He claims that the institution of 'tipping' is totally lopsided and unfair.

I think the gist of his argument is why does a waitress get a tip, but the kid at McDonald's doesn't? Usually a tip is a reward for 'hard work' or 'good service', but if the guy at Moore's helped me with a suit, I don't tip him. If the parking attendant looked up from his book super-quick to help me out, I don't tip him.

So, why does only one, narrow section of the service industry involve tipping? Why the hell is the customer responsible to provide service workers with the cream of their salary? Don't get me wrong, waitresses should probably be making what they make now, including tip, as their base wage.

I think its because the Restaurant Industry has found the perfect way to keep salaries at minimum wage. They simply pass on a large portion of their employee-costs on to the customer. Is this reflected in cheaper menu prices? No.

I'd be a whole lot happier if they'd just hike every menu-item price in every restaraunt 15% one time, and eliminated tipping altogether. Service Industry people who rely on tipping should, instead, be able to rely on a steady, predictable cash flow. Hell, shift them over to commission, anything to get rid of this totally subjective institution.

Fire away :P

[Agamemnon]

Originally posted by fotze@Feb 8 2005, 05:24 PM
Because if you do not, the people who have dined with you will forever see you as a cheap bas**rd and will be watching their back for the rest of time. They will not see you as a principled person with high convictions.

If you can live with people rightfully talking behind your back and various bodily fluids in some of your meals then go for it.

Uh huh. Well, if you were to miss the point of the topic, I guess I'd understand your comment.

The point was not 'I wish we could screw poor waitresses out of cash', it was, 'is the Restaraunt Industry screwing us out of cash, making us pay for their waitresses'.

I also don't see the correlation between being a 'good tipper' and having 'principles and high convictions'. That association is BS.

[Bill Bumface]

Just move to Australia, and all is well. They hate tipping.

[TheyCallMeBruce]

I think they should tip people who work at Staples. I used to work there for a year and believe me, it gets busier than a restaurant. Try handling 1 customer who's talking to you, 1 customer who needs his fax machine from the top shelf taken down, 1 very impatient customer holding his broken cellphone, and 1 customer who's still waiting for this computer (but can't get it yet because I don't have the key to the backroom, and thus, have to wait for the manager), simultaneously all at once. And that's an average day for me.

So yeah, why didn't I get tipped back then? Seems unfair to me since I made less than a waiter/waitress.

[Neeper]

TIPS = To Insure Prompt Service

Apparently it came from Europe where the customers would actually tip the server before they ordered food. This way they were guaranteed good service. Now we tip after we get good service. Even coming from the restaurant industry, I still will only tip if my service was good. If a server forgot to ring in my food, and blames it on the kitchen, they can forget about a tip from me.

[arsenal]

Becuase the majority of restraunts (in the US anyway) pay their servers minimum wage. That amount depends on what state you live in. Washington State min wage is about $7.00, in Lousiana servers get a base salary of $2.50. So in a sence, you are working for your tips. If you don't get any tips, you don't make any money.

Also, you don't tip the worker in MacDonald's becuase they generally don't do anything. They take your order, give you your food, and that is all. In a sit-down type resturant, there more interaction between the server and the clients. The server is there to wait on you. The person taking your order at a fast food resturant is not there to wait on you.

If the service is bad, then don't tip. Its not manditory (unless your english in Quebec) to tip your server. But alot of servers work their butts off for you, and you don't even notice. They take alot of crap that isn't their fault (ie: cook screwing up).
If the service is good, the tip is the reward. Service is bad, no tip is the message you send.

[BlackEleven]

In a lot of European countries, people don't tip all, and I've never had a problem with the service in Europe.

If tips actually got you better service, I would be all for it, but the fact is they don't. What are the chances of going back to the same restaurant and the waitress remembering that you gave her 20% instead of 15% so this time, so this time you'll get better service.

I'm with the Europeans on this one.

[Cain]

A lot of other places where you are sold something, those people work on commission - not all the time, but quite often.

I bet you the service people would love to work on commission...but they don't, and get paid crap for it, so they need the tips.

The fast food workers hardly 'serve' you. They take your order and move on to the next. Nothing special. No additional check ups. Why pay them anything more at all?

[zarrell]

If tipping is eliminated, it removes the incentive for the servers to give above average service.

[Agamemnon]

Originally posted by zarrell@Feb 8 2005, 05:35 PM
If tipping is eliminated, it removes the incentive for the servers to give above average service.

Then why isn't this the rule across the entire industry? Commissions and other Employee Incentives could be used without forcing the customer to pay your staff.

[albertGQ]

Maybe the whole system is backwards!

Should we tip before our meals? This way the servers know who they are getting the good tips from and can allocate their time accordingly

[TheyCallMeBruce]

At Staples, they don't work on commission (at least not when I was working there), and I made $7/hr. I did not receive any tips. And worst part? I had to help carry heavy ass computers and monitors to the customer's car. When it's busy, forget about trying to get your hands on a cart or dolly to load things on, chances are it won't be there, so you'll have to carry the load.

I'm not sure how hard waiters and waitresses work, but I'm pretty sure tech guys at staples work just as hard, if not harder.

[Agamemnon]

Originally posted by fotze@Feb 8 2005, 05:40 PM
But in Europe restaurant staff is respected and paid decently and have some benefits, it can actually be a career. Here restaurant staff is usually paid at the legal minimum and lots of times below the legal minimum with absolutely zero benefits, like medical, dental. It is a sh*t job and of course it's the employees choice.

Also the wait staff usually make way better cake then the ones making your food, seems the opposite of how it should be to me. The guys behind who usually had to go to school and have a skill get the same pay an no tips.

Exactly.

So why don't we have that restaraunt/career ability/lifestyle here?

Again, probably because the Restauranteurs are screwing everyone. I have no idea how they've been able to maintain this sweet, low-cost labour niche for so long, but clearly its institutionalized now.

[Ironhorse]

Originally posted by fotze@Feb 8 2005, 10:40 AM
But in Europe restaurant staff is respected and paid decently and have some benefits, it can actually be a career. Here restaurant staff is usually paid at the legal minimum and lots of times below the legal minimum with absolutely zero benefits, like medical, dental. It is a sh*t job and of course it's the employees choice.

Also the wait staff usually make way better cake then the ones making your food, seems the opposite of how it should be to me. The guys behind who usually had to go to school and have a skill get the same pay an no tips.

I have some friends that are Chefs, and in most cases (at least the places that they work) tips, aka gratuitities, are distributed evenly amongst the waiting and kitchen staff at the end of each month. They generally count on it as being part of their income...

[Clarkey]

I agree it is a silly concept. Tim Horton's employees work a lot harder than those working at Earls, but no tip. I usually give 50 cents or so when I go to a fast food and they appreciate it. I also tip the bottle depot employees, I gave one guy $5 bucks once and by his reaction I don't know if he had ever gotten a tip working there before. I hate how it has just become expected at the higher class restaurants, and didn't it used to be 10%, will the etiquette change to 20% tips?

[Bleeding Red]

Hiking prices up 15% won't cover it. Tips give a waiter the opportunity and incentive to earn, at times, the equvilant of $25-30 an hour. There was a time when I averaged $150 a day after my tip out. Also, there is the added benefit - many waiters do not declare cash tips to revenue canada - no paying tax on that $50 tip last night. There are formulas that are used and every once in a while you hear about a waiter getting audited, but most only declare 10-15% of what they really make.

I asked my uncle about it once. (little background, my family is a restaurant family - we added up the years once, between my grandparents (grandpa managed, grandma worked the coatcheck) my 2 uncles, my mom and I we had over 150 years in the biz. - add in my great-uncles/aunts and cousins - over 450 years of experience to turn to. My uncle owns his own place, 3 of my cousins have their chefs papers and another cousin is the CEO of the Keg restaurant chain)

Uncle said that if he had to pay the wages it would take to get people to do the job right he would have to charge $30 for a plate of spagetti in tomato sauce (an $8 entre on his menu), a $1 coke becomes $8.

Not only would wages have to go up, but suddenly the owner is paying more in payroll tax and the other nasty little taxes we are all charged. I cannot imagine anyone doing the job for less than $15 an hour.

Tipping keeps costs down, offers the waiter incentive to give good service and the opportunity to earn more money.

We are stuck with it.

[albertGQ]

Originally posted by Bleeding Red@Feb 8 2005, 10:48 AM
Hiking prices up 15% won't cover it. Tips give a waiter the opportunity and incentive to earn, at times, the equvilant of $25-30 an hour.

Now the question becomes, do servers deserve $25-$30 an hour? I don't think so. There is no way they deserve up to 5 times as much as a Tim Hortons, or MacDonald's employee, IMO

[CaramonLS]

Originally posted by albertGQ+Feb 8 2005, 05:54 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (albertGQ @ Feb 8 2005, 05:54 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Bleeding Red@Feb 8 2005, 10:48 AM
Hiking prices up 15% won't cover it. Tips give a waiter the opportunity and incentive to earn, at times, the equvilant of $25-30 an hour.

Now the question becomes, do servers deserve $25-$30 an hour? I don't think so. There is no way they deserve up to 5 times as much as a Tim Hortons, or MacDonald's employee, IMO [/b][/quote]
GQ as I said in the other thread, servers are REQUIRED at Earls (as an example), to give 10% of the cost of the bill back to the resteraunt. So if you didn't tip on a 120$ bill, the server pays the resteraunt 12$ on that bill - out of his/her own pocket.

[Neeper]

A Chef making $15,000 or less is pretty bad. A good line cook makes at least $10/hr. I was third chef in the restaurant I worked at and made $35k/yr plus tips. The only thing restaurants should take out of server's tips are for a D&D fund (dine and dash). It's usually 25 to 50 cents per server per shift.

[Agamemnon]

Originally posted by CaramonLS+Feb 8 2005, 06:03 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (CaramonLS @ Feb 8 2005, 06:03 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

Now the question becomes, do servers deserve $25-$30 an hour? I don't think so. There is no way they deserve up to 5 times as much as a Tim Hortons, or MacDonald's employee, IMO

GQ as I said in the other thread, servers are REQUIRED at Earls (as an example), to give 10% of the cost of the bill back to the resteraunt. So if you didn't tip on a 120$ bill, the server pays the resteraunt 12$ on that bill - out of his/her own pocket. [/b][/quote]
Exactly the issue.

If I don't tip, (currently) I'm screwing the server, which is BS.

They're employed by the Restaraunt, they get paid by the Restaurant. It should be worked out entirely before I even enter the door.

Who's screwing the server here, the poor tipper, or the cheap restaurant?