The Darryl Sutter effect: Assessing the aftermath

[robertsfanatic]

Originally Posted by Spurs

I am not sure saying that Sutter might not be as bad as some fans have made him out to be or I haven't heard anything awful he has done is really a hill that I am dying on.

Maybe I am just missing who has made him out to be so terrible. Just a bunch of people saying he treated staff like crap. Seeing his demeanor this year is that so far fetched?

[Dion]

Originally Posted by Spurs

I am not sure saying that Sutter might not be as bad as some fans have made him out to be or I haven't heard anything awful he has done is really a hill that I am dying on.

Why would Maloney go to the effort of interviewing coaching staff and training staff if there was nothing wrong. Usually where there's smoke there is fire.

[Spurs]

Originally Posted by robertsfanatic

Maybe I am just missing who has made him out to be so terrible. Just a bunch of people saying he treated staff like crap. Seeing his demeanor this year is that so far fetched?

I have seen many people think the team will be better just from Sutter leaving, that he was the reason that players wanted to leave and if that is true that it is a negative. That is what I was talking about.

[Oil Stain]

Originally Posted by InternationalVillager

I can personally confirm he treated support staff like ####. He valued no one's opinion which wasn't in line with his own. He didn't even listen to the people on his own staff at times.

EDIT:

I'll add some more details. Support staff couldn't even get him INTO A MEETING to go over things they saw on the ice/different things that he should be trying especially in terms of player usage etc. He didn't even attend meetings. Basically 95% of the staff that the Flames paid a salary to was not even utilized by Sutter. And when confronted- he ridiculed people and made them and their perspectives feel completely worthless.

Well I mean Darryl doing things Darryl's way is kind of what you are going to get. I figured the whole point in hiring Sutter is you want the players to get a kick in the butt, and you want everyone on the team pulling in the same direction. Darryl's direction.

If the unnamed support staff was a database/analytics guy for example then Darryl wasn't really in the wrong. If someone isn't part of the coaching staff then while they might have an opinion on how player usage should go, its not really their area of responsibility. Frustrating to not be heard, but that's not exactly uncommon in many industries.

Being dismissive of someone trying to offer unsolicited advice is not what I would consider abuse. It's certainly not pleasant, but no one hires Sutter for his bed side manner.

[FormerPresJamesTaylor]

Originally Posted by Oil Stain

Maybe he got fired because the team missed the playoffs and new contracts that the Flames will be stuck with in Kadri and Huberdeau hated him?

First I heard he was abusive of the support personnel.

"public statements made by the team that Sutter was fired because he was mistreating support staff."

Anyone have any link to where someone from the org states Sutter was abusing the support staff?

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

I don’t recall any public statements to this effect. A member of the organization stated on the record that an employee was mistreating staff?

Ditto to these; it seems like a rumour a few are now accepting as fact and spreading. Never once heard anything about mistreatment to support staff.

[Winsor_Pilates]

Originally Posted by FormerPresJamesTaylor

Ditto to these; it seems like a rumour a few are now accepting as fact and spreading. Never once heard anything about mistreatment to support staff.

Never heard anything before this thread.
Strange creation of new material without any sources or links.

I heard Sutter also hates puppies.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Spurs

Sutter seems to be an easy scapegoat for things that weren't his problem or was wrong of him to do.

Sad that people have let this sour what should be looked at as a Flames legend and a guy that got more out of this team that anyone else would have.

I cant comment too much but man, something seemed way, way off with Sutter last season.

I cant put my finger on it, but usually Sutter can be summed up as 'Tough but Fair.'

Last season, his press conferences were out of character, his personnel decisions were whack, his in-game adjustments made no sense.

It felt to me like a guy either trying to get fired, lost his marbles or there was something else going on behind the scenes.

[FormerPresJamesTaylor]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Sutter getting fired as suddenly as he did, before his expensive long-term extension kicked in is not "nothing." This is in fact very compelling indirect evidence that he was mistreating support staff in the organization. But then, this also aligns with the public statements made by the team that Sutter was fired because he was mistreating support staff.

Your typical hand-waving at the facts is the very definition of "obtuse."

Who's throwing their hands around creating facts, Textcritic?
https://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/nhl...-nhl-1.6828069

"I interviewed 25 players, coaches, coaching staff, training staff, spoke to prominent agents who represent key players on our team, and it became clear to me that we need a new voice to guide us forward," Flames president of hockey operations and interim general manager Don Maloney said.

"The players were very, very frustrated with the season," Maloney said at a Monday press conference. "They truly believe we had a team good enough to be in the playoffs."

Sutter's departure comes two weeks after former Flames general manager Brad Treliving turned down a contract extension and parted ways with the team.

Sutter was fired, because his tactics didn't work. He failed, the GM that hired him left, and the new guy wanted wanted a fresh start.

[bluejays]

I know this is rehashing some stuff but why did Treliving get a free pass and come across as a martyr by resigning? Frankly when Sutter was creating his reign of terror over the course of two seasons, where was he to protect the players and discipline him? He travels with the team and surely would’ve heard something during that time. You’re telling me if it wasn’t serious enough he couldn’t go to leadership and dish on the terrible behaviour? Call it willful ignorance over two seasons.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Ownership made the call over Tre's head to hire Sutter. He had no real autonomy when it came to dealing with Sutter.

[InternationalVillager]

Originally Posted by bluejays

I know this is rehashing some stuff but why did Treliving get a free pass and come across as a martyr by resigning? Frankly when Sutter was creating his reign of terror over the course of two seasons, where was he to protect the players and discipline him? He travels with the team and surely would’ve heard something during that time. You’re telling me if it wasn’t serious enough he couldn’t go to leadership and dish on the terrible behaviour? Call it willful ignorance over two seasons.

Well… Sutter was protected by ownership.

In this thread, we can’t even come to a conclusion of what is inappropriate behavior so why would it be different in an organization.

What’s the difference between being tough and abusive? Being passionate and being terrible person?

I don’t think Sutter ever fully crossed that line for it to be a clear issue where Treliving could step in and take it to ownership as an issue.

But when you have a viewpoint that has filtered through the organization that a a lot of individuals at different levels are unwilling to continue working with a certain individual….it just got to the point where ownership finally had to listen.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

Ownership made the call over Tre's head to hire Sutter. He had no real autonomy when it came to dealing with Sutter.

This is the thing, I dont really like the Canonization of Treliving, I think he should have been fired a long time ago.

The Sutter thing? Well...its not like Treliving had a long and storied history of picking up the best coaches. And he got more than a fair few swings at it, of which he whiffed them all.

So when someone says: "Ownership went over Tre's head to hire Sutter who consequently won the Jack Adams"

Why wouldnt you? Treliving clearly wouldnt know the difference between a good coach and his own ass.

That ought to say a lot about Treliving's judgement. The fact that the year after being named the 'Best Coach in the NHL' Sutter went nuts...I dont think anyone saw that coming and we still cant explain it.

Suffice it to say though, Treliving was not a Wizard at picking coaches or UFAs and frankly, the narrative is that he 'quit' or 'left' but I wouldnt be so certain that he was ever even wanted back.

That 'Toxic Work Environment?' Sutter didnt build it alone.

[mrdonkey]

Originally Posted by Locke

I cant comment too much but man, something seemed way, way off with Sutter last season.

I cant put my finger on it, but usually Sutter can be summed up as 'Tough but Fair.'

Last season, his press conferences were out of character, his personnel decisions were whack, his in-game adjustments made no sense.

It felt to me like a guy either trying to get fired, lost his marbles or there was something else going on behind the scenes.

To me it seemed like the coach and the GM were not on the same page after Gaudreau and Tkachuk bailed, which is understandable.

Make no mistake, Sutter had to be let go, but there was also an unprecedented amount of one-summer change to the core from the team he signed up for. Sutter may have just wanted out after he saw what went down. I have a hard time believing 100% of this team's problems were the coach being a sourpuss, and not attributable at all to the bleeding of talent that went down this time last year.

[bluejays]

Appreciate the answers but in the old boys club you can’t tell me the agents don’t have direct phone numbers to Edwards? If the rot was bad enough they’d make calls and leak stuff left right and centre. There was no reason for a shroud of secrecy to come from players agents when they find out their players are being harassed.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by Spurs

Not being obtuse just pointing out there is nothing showing that he was awful or unfair to anyone.

The Flames ownership group is known for lighting their money on fire just for ####s and giggles. Maybe they felt like they had 8 million more dollars than they needed.

[Spurs]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

The Flames ownership group is known for lighting their money on fire just for ####s and giggles. Maybe they felt like they had 8 million more dollars than they needed.

Exactly so if he was some terrible person they would have pushed to have it fired with cause to get some money back.

If it was just that his tactics and approach weren't liked by people in the organization they have to pay him out his 8 million with no option to get some back.

[Igottago]

Sutter was certainly incredibly difficult last season. No idea about the support staff thing, but the way he handled the media became obnoxious and just unnecessarily rude to a level that was completely unacceptable. It was actually annoying to watch. No reason to believe he didn't have the same tact inside the organization. He deserved to get fired.

I wonder if him and Treliving were just so far apart in their philosophies that Sutter's became frustrated and was acting out. I'm not saying it was the right way to handle things but it might explain some of his behaviour like the way he handled Huberdeau.

Anyways, I still think Sutter is a great coach but yeah he went overboard last year and deserved to get turfed.

[FormerPresJamesTaylor]

Originally Posted by Locke

That 'Toxic Work Environment?' Sutter didnt build it alone.

Sutter is a can be a curmudgeon at best and an absolute ####### but these claims he was fired because he mistreated support staff seem unfounded.

Didn't Conroy lament upon his hiring what as much as he respected Treliving he felt left out of most things as Brad tended to work alone. That's not exactly a good team environment Treliving was fostering either.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by FormerPresJamesTaylor

Sutter is a can be a curmudgeon at best and an absolute ####### but these claims he was fired because he mistreated support staff seem unfounded.

Didn't Conroy lament upon his hiring what as much as he respected Treliving he felt left out of most things as Brad tended to work alone. That's not exactly a good team environment Treliving was fostering either.

Oh I completely agree.

The thing is, I think a lot of blame is being leveled at Sutter and Treliving seems to be skating away scot free and I dont think thats reasonable.

Maybe Sutter was an Ownership hire that circumvented Treliving. Treliving sucked balls at hiring coaches, if they went around him one time and hired the Jack Adams winner....that ought to say something. If that then fell apart...well, who the hell knows what happened there.

I just think that the narrative that Treliving had no autonomy or was beholden to Owner's wishes at all times is unfounded and further, I dont think they wanted him back anyways.

[FormerPresJamesTaylor]

Originally Posted by Locke

Maybe Sutter was an Ownership hire that circumvented Treliving. Treliving sucked balls at hiring coaches, if they went around him one time and hired the Jack Adams winner....that ought to say something. If that then fell apart...well, who the hell knows what happened there..

Treliving and coaches man, what a disaster. Two won Coach of the Year while he was GM but neither Hartley (already hired) or Sutter (owner hire?) can be attributed to him. Glen Guletzan was bad enough but sticking with Geoff Ward after he was forced to turf Peters is probably worse.