Let's talk about Cryptocurrencies

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by GGG

I looked back through the articles and I the February 2020 you were advocating buying at 8 cause it was going to 20 so 200% return if you choose to sell.

If you cashed out of the Index at the start of Covid and bought the bottom you could have made over 50%. That one was easy to catch part of the wave.

Amazon is up 80% and Facebook are up 50% this year.

And if you had invested in Etsy you could have made 234%

So yes if you pick well as you did a single item and put a large portion of your portfolio in a single item you can have crazy returns. You just accept a large amount of volatility in exchange for the potential return. You just have to pick correctly. I don’t think you ever mentioned how much of your portfolio you put in Bitcoin.

Congrats on being correct though. Do you cash out now?

I bought at 8 but I had also bought at $1500 in 2017...I now own multiple coins. I have cashed out multiple times...right now is not one of those times this will not be the all time high for BTC I would bet on it (literally) Hindsight being 20/20 I should have bought more and held more.

I keep crypto separate from "normal investments" so its hard to say what percentage. My actually investment was almost nothing...$1500 canadian dollars.

BTC goes to zero next week I would be disappointed but my return on $1500 would rival any hindsight stock pick still.


And guys I'm just breakin' balls here...if it crashed/crashes I know for a fact some on here are gonna troll me so when I call 3 separate BTC buys on here and get mocked I am certainly gonna come back and gloat a bit.

[dobbles]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Current Bitcoin Price
25,446.76 CAD

Remember when I told you all to buy because it would be over 20k by the end of the year and was mocked by many...something about Pepperidge farm. Page 29 is an especially good read

countin' these rocks bitch!

Any sophisticated CP user would know we have not yet reached page 29. Goes to show how much we can trust your opinions!

Apologies if I missed it as I don't check the thread too much. But I am still having problems with understanding how this is anything other than a hysteria driven "buy low, sell high" scenario? In 2013 bitcoin saw amazing record highs; then lost 75% of its value and took 2 years to get back to that value. Then after that absurd run in 2017 it sets new astronomical highs and proceeds to lose 75% of its value and just now returned to those levels 3 years later.

So I guess congrats on the new high, and looking at the history, I would assume it will go much higher before crashing down again.

The two more direct questions I will reiterate:
1) What makes this market favorable to all this growth / what are things that would indicate the market is changing?

2) How is bitcoin a more stable alternative to fiat currency when its value fluctuates much more rapidly than just about any fiat currency outside of Venezuela?

[afc wimbledon]

Yes that's the problem with this whole conversation, is bitcoin a currency or an investment as historically it cant be both, if its a currency it needs to be stable predictable and safe unless its only use in the world is to do black market deals where losing money on the transfer isnt as important as avoiding government scrutiny

If its an investment then why, other than hope/market hype, does it go up and down?

I have yet to have it explained to me as to why bitcoin is of any better use than the dollar or Euro to anyone other than a drug dealer, how could you possibly use bit coin in a 3 month escrow account for a house purchase or the like?

[Fuzz]

Bitcoin is also about to face it's first real challenger, when Diem(formerly Libra) launches in January. It's had a bit of a rocky start, so will be interesting how that progresses.

[karl262]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

Yes that's the problem with this whole conversation, is bitcoin a currency or an investment as historically it cant be both, if its a currency it needs to be stable predictable and safe unless its only use in the world is to do black market deals where losing money on the transfer isnt as important as avoiding government scrutiny

If its an investment then why, other than hope/market hype, does it go up and down?

I have yet to have it explained to me as to why bitcoin is of any better use than the dollar or Euro to anyone other than a drug dealer, how could you possibly use bit coin in a 3 month escrow account for a house purchase or the like?

Len T Wong facilitates crypto real estate purchases and most likely isn't the only local realtor doing so.

A better question might be what CANT you buy with crypto? This is the focus in this space and people are racing to make it happen where it does not yet exist.

Further, would you be of the opinion that central bank policies like QE infinity is a better or even sustainable currency plan than a currency limit of some sort?

Bitcoin can be both an investment and a currency, they are not mutually exclusive.


Sent from my SM-G973W using Tapatalk

[jammies]

Originally Posted by dino7c

And guys I'm just breakin' balls here...

I can respect that.

[Jason14h]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

Yes that's the problem with this whole conversation, is bitcoin a currency or an investment as historically it cant be both, if its a currency it needs to be stable predictable and safe unless its only use in the world is to do black market deals where losing money on the transfer isnt as important as avoiding government scrutiny

If its an investment then why, other than hope/market hype, does it go up and down?

I have yet to have it explained to me as to why bitcoin is of any better use than the dollar or Euro to anyone other than a drug dealer, how could you possibly use bit coin in a 3 month escrow account for a house purchase or the like?

Currency in general is an investment. A smart investor is holding cash in the currency they think will appreciate the most, or using as a hedge against risk

Bitcoin can either be a hedge against currencies - Like any other currency - or a vehicle for purchases.

Unlike Gold, you actually CAN buy things easily with Bitcoin/Crypto. It is a more liquid store of value.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by karl262

Len T Wong facilitates crypto real estate purchases and most likely isn't the only local realtor doing so.

A better question might be what CANT you buy with crypto? This is the focus in this space and people are racing to make it happen where it does not yet exist.

Further, would you be of the opinion that central bank policies like QE infinity is a better or even sustainable currency plan than a currency limit of some sort?

Bitcoin can be both an investment and a currency, they are not mutually exclusive.


Sent from my SM-G973W using Tapatalk

So you would be happy to agree a price on a 1,500,000 plus asset, place that in escrow knowing full well you could lose 100,000 in the intervening months while you wait for the sale to complete? That you could put your bitcoin in an escrow account and lose 10 or 20% of its value is true but who in their right mind would? I can buy a house with a couple of pieces of dried out dog **** if ZI can find someone who will make the deal, doesnt mean its going to happen

Nothing that is a decent investment can be a good currency because of that

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

Currency in general is an investment. A smart investor is holding cash in the currency they think will appreciate the most, or using as a hedge against risk

Bitcoin can either be a hedge against currencies - Like any other currency - or a vehicle for purchases.

Unlike Gold, you actually CAN buy things easily with Bitcoin/Crypto. It is a more liquid store of value.

A hedge is not an investment, they are literally the opposite, you dont hold cash in the hopes it will increase in value, the price changes are to incremental, you hold it because you think the market in stocks is about to crash

[karl262]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

A hedge is not an investment, they are literally the opposite, you dont hold cash in the hopes it will increase in value, the price changes are to incremental, you hold it because you think the market in stocks is about to crash

I think you could consider moving your wealth from one form to another in the hopes of growing or just protecting it an investment. Not too many people wanting to hold cash now, thats for sure

While on stocks, could you help me understand the Tesla valuation? That seems like alot of hopes and dreams to me.

Regarding the escrow question, its not up to me what the seller does with the bitcoin. The point is that you can make a purchase of just about anything with it, including real estate.


Sent from my SM-G973W using Tapatalk

[dino7c]

I know outsource guys that were paid in bitcoin...they are no longer outsource guys, worked out pretty well for them.

Bitcoin is used a lot for web services, IT, development, ect.

You can pay for Servers, designers, coders, SEO, whatever with BTC. Sending fiat to a dude in Macedonia to do some code isn't always easy but BTC is.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by karl262

I think you could consider moving your wealth from one form to another in the hopes of growing or just protecting it an investment. Not too many people wanting to hold cash now, thats for sure

While on stocks, could you help me understand the Tesla valuation? That seems like alot of hopes and dreams to me.

Regarding the escrow question, its not up to me what the seller does with the bitcoin. The point is that you can make a purchase of just about anything with it, including real estate.


Sent from my SM-G973W using Tapatalk

Tesla is a perfect example...yes they sell cars, not nearly enough to justify their stock price though its all speculation

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by karl262

I think you could consider moving your wealth from one form to another in the hopes of growing or just protecting it an investment. Not too many people wanting to hold cash now, thats for sure

While on stocks, could you help me understand the Tesla valuation? That seems like alot of hopes and dreams to me.

Regarding the escrow question, its not up to me what the seller does with the bitcoin. The point is that you can make a purchase of just about anything with it, including real estate.


Sent from my SM-G973W using Tapatalk

I see bitcoin and Tesla as being exactly the same thing, a massively over valued asset based mostly on its cachet as being high tech and the markets basic lack of understanding along with a huge dose of 'fomo.

The difference between the two to me is at least with Tesla I can see what they make and so understand why the stock has some value, if only for it's patents and battery tech, with bitcoin I cannot see any value to it at all, it is supposedly a currency, but its valuation and operation is closer to gold as a precious metal only without any practical application, you cant make jewelry or electronics with it, there isnt any real downside to the 'paper' currency we have already, they are stable, work well for any legal transaction you might want to do, operate all over the world and are secure, their use is convenient as well, bank card or cheque or just a pocket full of coins it all works easily and instantly with no need for calculating value.

I cant see any need for bitcoin unless secrecy is your prime concern, you're a coke dealer, why would anyone chose to buy a car or a house or something off amazon with bitcoin, I agree you might be able too but why would you bother? it makes no sense for an instant transaction where you just have to calculate the exchange rate, with its wild value fluctuations it is impossible to do any time delayed contract negotions or escrow transactions and that makes it useless as a currancy in the long run.

[JohnnyB]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

I see bitcoin and Tesla as being exactly the same thing, a massively over valued asset based mostly on its cachet as being high tech and the markets basic lack of understanding along with a huge dose of 'fomo.

The difference between the two to me is at least with Tesla I can see what they make and so understand why the stock has some value, if only for it's patents and battery tech, with bitcoin I cannot see any value to it at all, it is supposedly a currency, but its valuation and operation is closer to gold as a precious metal only without any practical application, you cant make jewelry or electronics with it, there isnt any real downside to the 'paper' currency we have already, they are stable, work well for any legal transaction you might want to do, operate all over the world and are secure, their use is convenient as well, bank card or cheque or just a pocket full of coins it all works easily and instantly with no need for calculating value.

I cant see any need for bitcoin unless secrecy is your prime concern, you're a coke dealer, why would anyone chose to buy a car or a house or something off amazon with bitcoin, I agree you might be able too but why would you bother? it makes no sense for an instant transaction where you just have to calculate the exchange rate, with its wild value fluctuations it is impossible to do any time delayed contract negotions or escrow transactions and that makes it useless as a currancy in the long run.

You've never seemed very open towards actually considering the value of bitcoin. Maybe you should consider the possibility that you have a blind spot. There is no shortage of credible people to learn from if you approach it with an open mind.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by JohnnyB

You've never seemed very open towards actually considering the value of bitcoin. Maybe you should consider the possibility that you have a blind spot. There is no shortage of credible people to learn from if you approach it with an open mind.

Oh I'm open to it I am just waiting for someone to explain it, why would the world need to use bitcoin? I get why the world needs Tesla, the price maybe nuts, the company might get wiped out by other cars but the basic premise is clear and makes sense, they make a car, bitcoin doesnt to me and so far no one has made a case for it, in fact they havent even tried, mostly they said 'look how high it's going' which is as I pointed out the opposite of what you want in a currency and a few examples of places that will take bitcoin, but no particular reason why you would use it other than novelty value, can someone explain what bitcoin does that you cant do with other currency's, when I go to the states I go to the bank and take out US dollars, that is the reason for the US dollars existence, its legal tender in the worlds largest economy, that's it but it's enough, why does the world need, not could use but need, bitcoin? Because that need is what separates bitcoin from Beenie Babies, Beenie Babies used to be worth a fortune, people made a mint buying and selling them, the price skyrocketed right up to the point the whole world went 'hey wait a minute this is just a 3 dollar stuffed toy!!'

[Winsor_Pilates]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

So you would be happy to agree a price on a 1,500,000 plus asset, place that in escrow knowing full well you could lose 100,000 in the intervening months while you wait for the sale to complete? That you could put your bitcoin in an escrow account and lose 10 or 20% of its value is true but who in their right mind would? I can buy a house with a couple of pieces of dried out dog **** if ZI can find someone who will make the deal, doesnt mean its going to happen

Nothing that is a decent investment can be a good currency because of that

We don't do escrow closings in Canada, at least not commonly.

I'm not sure how that realtor uses Bitcoin, but the deposit for purchasing properties is held in trust accounts and definitely would not be in crypto form.
Nor would that even be up to the Realtor.

[JohnnyB]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

Oh I'm open to it I am just waiting for someone to explain it, why would the world need to use bitcoin? I get why the world needs Tesla, the price maybe nuts, the company might get wiped out by other cars but the basic premise is clear and makes sense, they make a car, bitcoin doesnt to me and so far no one has made a case for it, in fact they havent even tried, mostly they said 'look how high it's going' which is as I pointed out the opposite of what you want in a currency and a few examples of places that will take bitcoin, but no particular reason why you would use it other than novelty value, can someone explain what bitcoin does that you cant do with other currency's, when I go to the states I go to the bank and take out US dollars, that is the reason for the US dollars existence, its legal tender in the worlds largest economy, that's it but it's enough, why does the world need, not could use but need, bitcoin? Because that need is what separates bitcoin from Beenie Babies, Beenie Babies used to be worth a fortune, people made a mint buying and selling them, the price skyrocketed right up to the point the whole world went 'hey wait a minute this is just a 3 dollar stuffed toy!!'

I'm not going to try to persuade you. The info and analysis is out there and you can make your own judgment. Why ask people here when there is plenty of freely available expert analysis?

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by JohnnyB

I'm not going to try to persuade you. The info and analysis is out there and you can make your own judgment. Why ask people here when there is plenty of freely available expert analysis?

I dont need an expert, I just need someone, you for instance, to tell me why bitcoin is better or does something ordinary money doesnt or cant do, that's the part I dont understand, it just looks like some high tech version of the Gold Standard, and the people that call for a return to Gold are bat #### crazy

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by Winsor_Pilates

We don't do escrow closings in Canada, at least not commonly.

I'm not sure how that realtor uses Bitcoin, but the deposit for purchasing properties is held in trust accounts and definitely would not be in crypto form.
Nor would that even be up to the Realtor.

Thanks, same basic principle though, you wouldnt dare put a large sum of money in a holding account if you couldnt be sure that in a few months roughly the same amount of money was still there, its why people in the third world were their own countries currancy is wildly unstable use the US dollar, because its value is very stable

[Winsor_Pilates]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

Thanks, same basic principle though, you wouldnt dare put a large sum of money in a holding account if you couldnt be sure that in a few months roughly the same amount of money was still there, its why people in the third world were their own countries currancy is wildly unstable use the US dollar, because its value is very stable

Yeah definitely agree on that.

I guess any transaction using crypo currencies should be instant transactions in that sense.

I don't think we'll ever see a day when Bitcoin is a widely used currency.
I do think there's something to crypto however and the technology behind it. There's at least a widely spread hope or sense that we're on to something here.

Bitcoin investment is just the manifestation if that hope and anticipation of the technology going somewhere.