A lot of it is superficial though. Putting lettering, on jerseys and on the court isn’t going to change much. Awareness only goes so far. So I understand when players and others feel the angst. It’s not about Instagram and saying the right thing. It’s about action on peoples parts. They’ve even said so themselves. But someone like Nurse or other coaching staff should be guiding them in life at times on how to do it effectively. Sometimes things take on a life of their own but there has to be a voice of reason to do things right and not just for show or out of frustration.
Boy there's a lot of assumption in that post. How does Nick Nurse get to decide how to "do things right". And I would suspect a lot of people, including the players, would object to framing this as something they are doing this "just for show"
Deleted: My mistake.
Last edited by Jiri Hrdina; 08-26-2020 at 05:31 PM.
Well, this was Milwaukee opting out, by not coming out of the room. Orlando was on the court ready to go.
The NBA shut it all down from there. Not sure if they (the NBA) have framed the shutdown because of the actual protest, or because one team wasn’t t going to play and it wouldn’t look right if Milwaukee was penalized and other teams played.
Thought I read the Brewers aren’t playing tonight either, but MLB is.
I don’t know about that Fleury. These athletes likely feel angry and powerless, so this boycott gives them both a voice, an outlet for their anger, and a feeling of power or some sort of control over a situation that is extremely difficult and basically out of their control. If they feel they need to be heard and this is their way of being heard then all the power to them in my opinion.
Last edited by flames_fan_down_under; 08-26-2020 at 04:43 PM.
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I posted this elsewhere on social media, but I'm going to say it here as well:
In regards to what the outcomes will be: we don't know how this affects change or what the outcomes could be. And that's okay.
It's okay for a protest movement to not know what it's final goal is or how to get there.
It's okay for a protest to come from an emotional reaction rather than a calculated one.
Wherever this goes, I support the players' rights to use their voices as they see fit to benefit their communities, and that support is not conditioned on them having a plan or an articulated end-goal.
If a protest must have a plan to be considered legitimate, then we allow authorities to quash the legitimacy of any protest simply by blocking those plans. Like the Montgomery Bus Boycotts, you must assume that whatever your plan is, authorities will move to block you, and so you can't make your protest about the end goal or the means to get there. The best protest is simply driven by anger at the status quo.
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Boy there's a lot of assumption in that post. How does Nick Nurse get to decide how to "do things right". And I would suspect a lot of people, including the players, would object to framing this as something they are doing this "just for show"
Haven't you also disagreed with any of the athlete protests, including what Matt Dumba did? Is it just a case where you don't think athletes should be taking a stand? I'm trying to understand what your objection actually is.
Once again you’re making stuff up or framing stuff the way you want to.
1) I never once commented about Dumba. No idea what you’re referring to or implying but it’s completely fabricated.
2) I never said Nurse decides how to do things right. He’s a coach and the associated coaching staff should help them in doing things methodically.
3) For show is the Instagramers.
4) I think I’ve outlined my position succinctly in my last post. But continue to point my posts in a way that somehow it isn’t. Great example as a moderator.
I don’t know about that Fleury. These athletes likely feel angry and powerless, so this boycott gives them both a voice, an outlet for their anger, and a feeling of power or some sort of control over a situation that is extremely difficult and basically out of their control. If they feel they need to be heard and this is their way of being heard then all the power to them in my opinion.
I can accept that.
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Once again you’re making stuff up or framing stuff the way you want to.
1) I never once commented about Dumba. No idea what you’re referring to or implying but it’s completely fabricated.
2) I never said Nurse decides how to do things right. He’s a coach and the associated coaching staff should help them in doing things methodically.
3) For show is the Instagramers.
4) I think I’ve outlined my position succinctly in my last post. But continue to point my posts in a way that somehow it isn’t. Great example as a moderator.
My apologies. I clearly mixed up you with another poster. I retract my statement on you commenting about Dumba's actions.
I still disagree with the rest of your post, and that the coaches should play any role in this. I think this is a players decision and should be.
But I apologize for confusing what was said by someone else.
EDIT: It was this post that I was thinking of "Not a fan of anthems and nationalism to begin with, but the knee is overdone. Time to find a new way to protest." which obviously had no relation to Dumba and where I had mixed things up. There was a different poster who specifically objected to Dumba's stance - but it was not you.
Last edited by Jiri Hrdina; 08-26-2020 at 05:37 PM.
My apologies. I clearly mixed up you with another poster. I retract my statement on you commenting about Dumba's actions.
I still disagree with the rest of your post, and that the coaches should play any role in this. I think this is a players decision and should be.
But I apologize for confusing what was said by someone else.
EDIT: It was this post that I was thinking of "Not a fan of anthems and nationalism to begin with, but the knee is overdone. Time to find a new way to protest." which obviously had no relation to Dumba and where I had mixed things up. There was a different poster who specifically objected to Dumba's stance - but it was not you.
I was going to accept the apology but I see it's now been edited to justify your original comment. In that same thread on August 5th, you also not so subtly took lowball hit because I didn't have the same point of view. The above quote was to say that action needs to be taken, and players taking a knee wasn't front page news anymore. I explained that before but you found a way later in the tread to also imply racist views which couldn't be further from the truth.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina
Did you not also object to nhl players taking a knee recently?
At the time I brushed it off - you're a mod, you have the power to ban. But to say it twice now has really ticked me off. Especially your edit to justify your actions. In that thread after your post another poster accused me of being a bigot. And you let it go. How much of that was based on the implication you personally threw, we'll never know, but it's false and a low way of disagreeing with someone (to throw such a lie out). I don't have a face that someone can attribute this to, but my username will be tarnished in many posters eyes as a result of your actions. Furthermore as I've previously stated, I'm a visible minority, which shouldn't mean anything, but in this context it's a real kick in the face to imply multiple times I'm a racist, when I'm affiliated with the very groups you're not so subtly accusing me of hating. I've never posted anything hateful, have always posted from a point of view of a discussion, and always will respect others views. I know this isn't an endearing post, but when someone implies it twice (a mod nonetheless), and looks for the justification, it reflects poorly. Other mods have never done the same to their credit. It doesn't matter anymore if this sours my reputation with the mods, I just think it was a distasteful thing to paint someone as something that they are not, and I'm tired of it.
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I posted this elsewhere on social media, but I'm going to say it here as well:
In regards to what the outcomes will be: we don't know how this affects change or what the outcomes could be. And that's okay.
It's okay for a protest movement to not know what it's final goal is or how to get there.
It's okay for a protest to come from an emotional reaction rather than a calculated one.
Wherever this goes, I support the players' rights to use their voices as they see fit to benefit their communities, and that support is not conditioned on them having a plan or an articulated end-goal.
If a protest must have a plan to be considered legitimate, then we allow authorities to quash the legitimacy of any protest simply by blocking those plans. Like the Montgomery Bus Boycotts, you must assume that whatever your plan is, authorities will move to block you, and so you can't make your protest about the end goal or the means to get there. The best protest is simply driven by anger at the status quo.
Poignant words, octothorp. Really captures how movements start and rise up throughout history, despite the majority telling the minority to be better, smarter, more efficient and more calculated
aka "Stop doing things that are irrational and upset the norms!! Calm down and do this quieter, later and less disrsuptfully!
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I was going to accept the apology but I see it's now been edited to justify your original comment. In that same thread on August 5th, you also not so subtly took lowball hit because I didn't have the same point of view. The above quote was to say that action needs to be taken, and players taking a knee wasn't front page news anymore. I explained that before but you found a way later in the tread to also imply racist views which couldn't be further from the truth.
I wasn't justifying my comment, I was simply explaining what I mixed up.
Nor have I ever implied that you have racist views.
Quote:
Originally Posted by fleury
At the time I brushed it off - you're a mod, you have the power to ban. But to say it twice now has really ticked me off. Especially your edit to justify your actions. In that thread after your post another poster accused me of being a bigot. And you let it go. How much of that was based on the implication you personally threw, we'll never know, but it's false and a low way of disagreeing with someone (to throw such a lie out). I don't have a face that someone can attribute this to, but my username will be tarnished in many posters eyes as a result of your actions. Furthermore as I've previously stated, I'm a visible minority, which shouldn't mean anything, but in this context it's a real kick in the face to imply multiple times I'm a racist, when I'm affiliated with the very groups you're not so subtly accusing me of hating. I've never posted anything hateful, have always posted from a point of view of a discussion, and always will respect others views. I know this isn't an endearing post, but when someone implies it twice (a mod nonetheless), and looks for the justification, it reflects poorly. Other mods have never done the same to their credit. It doesn't matter anymore if this sours my reputation with the mods, I just think it was a distasteful thing to paint someone as something that they are not, and I'm tired of it.
Again I'm not accusing you of being a racist or a bigot and I never have. I was trying to understand your objections to people calling out or objecting to these things and your views that society is becoming too sensitive about things. I honestly don't understand what your points are b/c previously you had stated that they needed to find a way to keep things fresh and find a new stance. Here they have done that, and you are objecting to it again. As is your right. And that doesn't mean you are racist. Nor did I say it did. I just disagree with your position on the various forms of protest.
But I admit and agree I could have handled it better. And I apologize for that. And furthermore I agree that Crown Royal's post in that thread was way over the line. I don't know if I saw it that night or not, but it should have been deleted and I will do that now.
Last edited by Jiri Hrdina; 08-26-2020 at 06:54 PM.
I don’t know about that Fleury. These athletes likely feel angry and powerless, so this boycott gives them both a voice, an outlet for their anger, and a feeling of power or some sort of control over a situation that is extremely difficult and basically out of their control. If they feel they need to be heard and this is their way of being heard then all the power to them in my opinion.
I think that's more than fair. I've never "lived" in the states, but I've spent a good deal of time there and sometimes the racial discrimination is glaring. To be away from their families during times like this, where for some their family or friends may be in communities where there are things going on must be difficult to be in a bubble away from. I do think they should have given warning as that would have brought more definable change, but I get it if they're upset and probably want to return home to their communities too.
It's a turning point that's for sure. These players really have to be all in, and that means not playing tomorrow and perhaps not playing ever again. End of the 3 major American sports as we know it?
__________________
Watching the Oilers defend is like watching fire engines frantically rushing to the wrong fire
I don’t know about that Fleury. These athletes likely feel angry and powerless, so this boycott gives them both a voice, an outlet for their anger, and a feeling of power or some sort of control over a situation that is extremely difficult and basically out of their control. If they feel they need to be heard and this is their way of being heard then all the power to them in my opinion.
It's more than that. They have leverage and a captive audience. Most schlubs have nothing to do but watch sports on TV right now. There's been a large amount of focus on sports starting up again, so there are more eyes on this than ever.
Throw in the fact that there have been enough compelling storylines and games to draw even more eyes, and you have a situation where any sort of noticeable protest is going to have an impact. The words on jerseys was a nice touch, but this is about an elite group of athletes using their platform to say "we have had enough." People notice self-sacrifice. If the league shuts down over this, or if teams forfeit games, people will start saying to themselves "this isn't just some anger, this is a demand for action."
Gandhi had this all sorted out way back when. Self-sacrifice calls attention to the urgency of your plight, and it shames the other side for not doing more.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by ResAlien
If we can't fall in love with replaceable bottom 6 players then the terrorists have won.
It's a turning point that's for sure. These players really have to be all in, and that means not playing tomorrow and perhaps not playing ever again. End of the 3 major American sports as we know it?
I will say yes. It's sounds drastic but i think we're done. These players have to prepare to never play again. I've watched a lot of coverage today and one thing I've heard over and over again is, "Today there are bigger issues than basketball, basketball is just not important today." While this is may be more true today, basketball, and sports in general, is not that important in the grand scheme of things. Sports is just an escape. Millionaires playing a game. If you polled any random 100 people, maybe 20 are into sports?
I hear this is to put pressure on owners and executives. What would happen if billionaires owners walked away and the NBA folded? Would America care? I get the players are really upset but there's a player's meeting going on right now and there's probably a split between boycotting for a few days and going home for good. I think if the players leave the bubble and the season is cancelled, the league probably folds. I can't think of a condition to return that would work.
I will say yes. It's sounds drastic but i think we're done. These players have to prepare to never play again. I've watched a lot of coverage today and one thing I've heard over and over again is, "Today there are bigger issues than basketball, basketball is just not important today." While this is may be more true today, basketball, and sports in general, is not that important in the grand scheme of things. Sports is just an escape. Millionaires playing a game. If you polled any random 100 people, maybe 20 are into sports?
I hear this is to put pressure on owners and executives. What would happen if billionaires owners walked away and the NBA folded? Would America care? I get the players are really upset but there's a player's meeting going on right now and there's probably a split between boycotting for a few days and going home for good. I think if the players leave the bubble and the season is cancelled, the league probably folds. I can't think of a condition to return that would work.
Holy ####, you have no idea what you're talking about. Have you spent ANY time in America? Yes, they would care.
Wow...just wow.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by ResAlien
If we can't fall in love with replaceable bottom 6 players then the terrorists have won.
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