Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community
Old 11-18-2019, 06:48 AM   #1
Snuffleupagus
First Line Centre
 
Snuffleupagus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Exp:
Default Electric vehicle war, is gas soon to be toast?

With Tesla finally getting off the ground with positive results, Mercedes and Jaguar promising a big future in E-vehicles and now even a Ford (sort of) Mustang SUV is this the start of a war not seen since the 60's muscle cars were fighting it out for dominance.

BTW, The Mustang SUV looks fantastic

Snuffleupagus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2019, 08:07 AM   #2
OldDutch
First Line Centre
 
OldDutch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: North of the River, South of the Bluff
Exp:
Default

Soon No

- Costs are high
- Infrastructure is weak. (Can you find a EV Station as easy as gas station?)
- charging takes way too long.
- range is not there

Until a massive leap in battery technology is announced tomorrow, it is not soon.

This is the biggest oversight I see with the green arguments. Battery technology just is bot there to be easy and available as gas/oil. Not by a long shot.
OldDutch is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to OldDutch For This Useful Post:
Old 11-18-2019, 08:24 AM   #3
Weitz
Franchise Player
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Exp:
Default

I haven't seen anything that would make me even contemplate buying an EV for my next vehicle choice. I think they still have a long ways to go. If I lived somewheres else then maybe.
Weitz is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Weitz For This Useful Post:
Old 11-18-2019, 08:43 AM   #4
Sliver
PC LOAD LETTER
 
Sliver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Exp:
Default



Range of 500kms. 0-60 in 3.2 seconds. 470hp. Those numbers are jaw droppingly insane. That's not a high cost for that performance.

Oh, and it can drive itself.

We don't need to wait for anything. The tech is here and you can buy it online right this second if you want.

I'd buy an EV in a heartbeat. The torque they drop is sick.
Sliver is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Sliver For This Useful Post:
Old 11-18-2019, 08:44 AM   #5
Fuzz
Franchise Player
 
Fuzz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Exp:
Default

EV's are exactly where they need to be for everything except range and price. Both come down to battery tech. Until that changes we are just going to see every car company coming out with the same thing, with the same 2 issues.
__________________
Air Canada - We're not happy until you're not happy.
Telus - Almost as bad as Winnipeg.
Calgary Roads Dept - Ya, we'll get to that.
Fuzz is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2019, 08:46 AM   #6
Scroopy Noopers
Pent-up
 
Scroopy Noopers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Ontario, unfortunately.
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuzz View Post
EV's are exactly where they need to be for everything except range and price. Both come down to battery tech. Until that changes we are just going to see every car company coming out with the same thing, with the same 2 issues.
They have the range down for like 95% of the people who drive vehicles 99% of the time. I commute to the Toronto and wouldnít have an issue with the ranges available.
Scroopy Noopers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2019, 08:48 AM   #7
Fuzz
Franchise Player
 
Fuzz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Exp:
Default

But would you buy a $60 000 vehicle that you couldn't take on a road trip without knowing you have to plan out charging stops?
__________________
Air Canada - We're not happy until you're not happy.
Telus - Almost as bad as Winnipeg.
Calgary Roads Dept - Ya, we'll get to that.
Fuzz is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2019, 08:51 AM   #8
Scroopy Noopers
Pent-up
 
Scroopy Noopers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Ontario, unfortunately.
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuzz View Post
But would you buy a $60 000 vehicle that you couldn't take on a road trip without knowing you have to plan out charging stops?
Well I’m not arguing with you on price. You said the range isn’t there. And I guess that depends how often you find yourself doing that.

I see this going to similar territory as “do you really NEED a pick up truck. How often do you NEED to lug things around? 5 times a year?”

How often do you NEED a vehicle that exceeds 500 km between 45 min charging? Seems like a silly point to get hung up on.

Ps. You don’t even need to plan it, the Tesla’s do that for you.
Scroopy Noopers is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to Scroopy Noopers For This Useful Post:
Old 11-18-2019, 08:53 AM   #9
burn_this_city
Franchise Player
 
burn_this_city's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Calgary
Exp:
Default

They are still second vehicle status for the majority of people.
burn_this_city is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2019, 08:55 AM   #10
Fuzz
Franchise Player
 
Fuzz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sliver View Post
Range of 500kms. 0-60 in 3.2 seconds. 470hp. Those numbers are jaw droppingly insane. That's not a high cost for that performance.

Oh, and it can drive itself.

We don't need to wait for anything. The tech is here and you can buy it online right this second if you want.

I'd buy an EV in a heartbeat. The torque they drop is sick.
So that's $76 000, ($85 000 if you want "full self driving"). Yes, it has unbeatable performance for the price. But it's still a high price. Maybe 5% of car buyers could afford it? And the cheapest one currently looks like it is $56 000
https://www.tesla.com/en_ca/model3/design#battery


That has a range of 400km, which is about 300km in winter. Which gets back to my point. It's still expensive for most people, and a range that leaves you wondering if it is gong to be a PITA to own.


Until they can produce ev's in the price range of $20-40k with ranges of 500km+, it's going to be a tough sell for most average car buyers. And that problem all comes down to battery tech. Everything else is there, the motors, power delivery etc.
__________________
Air Canada - We're not happy until you're not happy.
Telus - Almost as bad as Winnipeg.
Calgary Roads Dept - Ya, we'll get to that.
Fuzz is online now   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Fuzz For This Useful Post:
Old 11-18-2019, 09:23 AM   #11
DownInFlames
Craig McTavish' Merkin
 
DownInFlames's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scroopy Noopers View Post
Well Iím not arguing with you on price. You said the range isnít there. And I guess that depends how often you find yourself doing that.

I see this going to similar territory as ďdo you really NEED a pick up truck. How often do you NEED to lug things around? 5 times a year?Ē

How often do you NEED a vehicle that exceeds 500 km between 45 min charging? Seems like a silly point to get hung up on.

Ps. You donít even need to plan it, the Teslaís do that for you.
Yeah itís cool how the Tesla will show you all of the charging stations in range, and thereís more and more being added all the time. I even noticed thereís a supercharger in Strathmore.

I rarely drive further than a typical EVís range, and when I do I usually rent something anyway, so I would have no problem buying one as a daily driver.

Iím still waiting for an electric van to come out so I can buy one for my business.
DownInFlames is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2019, 09:26 AM   #12
Cecil Terwilliger
That Crazy Guy at the Bus Stop
 
Cecil Terwilliger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Springfield Penitentiary
Exp:
Default

$30k pricetag with 1000km range and I’m in. Otherwise I’m sticking with my current car.
Cecil Terwilliger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2019, 09:44 AM   #13
Hemi-Cuda
wins 10 internets
 
Hemi-Cuda's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: slightly to the left
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by burn_this_city View Post
They are still second vehicle status for the majority of people.

This is it for me. I would love a Tesla, and in 5-10 years after we have a house and the kids are in school allowing my wife to work more I'm definitely going to get one for my primary work commute car. But that's because we already have a CRV for the family car. Tesla wouldn't even be considered if we only had the budget for a single vehicle
Hemi-Cuda is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2019, 09:48 AM   #14
Sliver
PC LOAD LETTER
 
Sliver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuzz View Post
So that's $76 000, ($85 000 if you want "full self driving"). Yes, it has unbeatable performance for the price. But it's still a high price. Maybe 5% of car buyers could afford it? And the cheapest one currently looks like it is $56 000
https://www.tesla.com/en_ca/model3/design#battery

That has a range of 400km, which is about 300km in winter. Which gets back to my point. It's still expensive for most people, and a range that leaves you wondering if it is gong to be a PITA to own.

Until they can produce ev's in the price range of $20-40k with ranges of 500km+, it's going to be a tough sell for most average car buyers. And that problem all comes down to battery tech. Everything else is there, the motors, power delivery etc.
Yes, still a high price for sure. Way beyond what I'm willing to spend on a vehicle, but that doesn't mean it isn't a good value. I really want self-driving tech, but I don't see any other brands that do it as well as Tesla no matter the price. Seems like Hyundai is moving along well on self-driving stuff as is Mercedes, but I think Tesla is still the best.

The 0-60 is where you're getting incredible value. That's honestly super-car territory. Like, you shouldn't be getting that performance for that cheap.

I also think these are best as second cars, but literally every person in my peer group has at least two cars. When you have two adults in a house working, two cars is basically a given. No reason why this couldn't be a daily driver and even suitable for going to Banff for the day/weekend, while your other car would be better for summer road tripping. TBH, this car is too small for a summer road trip vehicle, anyway, so the range isn't a big deal. Plus, you'd have to be a total dope to be incapable of planning a charge or two if you did want to go away with it. I can't imagine it would be hard to figure out.
Sliver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2019, 09:49 AM   #15
ken0042
Playboy Mansion Poolboy
 
ken0042's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Close enough to make a beer run during a TV timeout
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger View Post
$30k pricetag with 1000km range and Iím in. Otherwise Iím sticking with my current car.
I would even say $30k pricetag, 500 km range, and 300 km between chargers. Right now I still cannot drive to Winnipeg, as there is 475 km between chargers in Regina and MacGregor, MB.
ken0042 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2019, 09:51 AM   #16
Cecil Terwilliger
That Crazy Guy at the Bus Stop
 
Cecil Terwilliger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Springfield Penitentiary
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ken0042 View Post
I would even say $30k pricetag, 500 km range, and 300 km between chargers. Right now I still cannot drive to Winnipeg, as there is 475 km between chargers in Regina and MacGregor, MB.
Ha yeah I was thinking Regina and Kelowna. Those drives already suck and if I canít make it the whole way, I wouldnít do it. Not unless charge time is reduced to 20mins or less.
Cecil Terwilliger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2019, 09:55 AM   #17
psicodude
First Line Centre
 
psicodude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Calgary
Exp:
Default

I think EV's are on the same maturity scale as any game-changing technology. Blue-ray or cell phones are a decent example, albeit on a much faster timeline. The tech arrives and is a little rough around the edges, but early adopters jump aboard. The tech proves viable and shows potential for profit, so large-scale producers (Ford, GM, etc) get into the game which improves quality while driving down price. This drives more sales and the cycle keeps going round. At some point (when the cost becomes digestible for the average buyer) the new tech usurps the existing, virtually overnight.

My guess is that we are still in the early adopters stage for reasons mentioned above. Once the big boys get into the game, the switch to EV will happen very quickly. I'm just not sure if that's 5 or 10 years away. I think the range is acceptable for the average urban dweller but the price needs to come down by 50%.
psicodude is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2019, 10:21 AM   #18
burn_this_city
Franchise Player
 
burn_this_city's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Calgary
Exp:
Default

I posted this in the general automotive thread, but it should be here.

After reading how they threw their original concept out and basically slapped this together in short time I can't help but feel this thing has some fatal flaws. The infotainment system was put together by a team of people in 15 days, yikes. Let other people take the beach on the first Ford clean sheet electric.
burn_this_city is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2019, 10:24 AM   #19
Fuzz
Franchise Player
 
Fuzz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Exp:
Default

I wonder if Ford is going for the giant touch screen because they have to keep costs down, or because they think people actually want it, or just because Tesla did it, they need to as well. I think they look ugly as sin, and are functionally far worse than what they replace.
__________________
Air Canada - We're not happy until you're not happy.
Telus - Almost as bad as Winnipeg.
Calgary Roads Dept - Ya, we'll get to that.
Fuzz is online now   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Fuzz For This Useful Post:
Old 11-18-2019, 10:31 AM   #20
Ozy_Flame

Posted the 6 millionth post!
 
Ozy_Flame's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Exp:
Default

I can't imagine my next vehicle will be a gasoline engine. Hybrid or EV. Kevin Kent (Kent of Inglewood store owner) on Twitter drives his Tesla around Calgary and has driven it to Vancouver before. He seems to be very happy with it. I have also seen an increased number of them in Edmonton in the last two years, people seem to be driving them just fine.

If I was living in a condo though, I wouldn't get one. Most of these buildings don't have plug-ins, which is funny because they're going to have to accommodate eventually. Special assessments for new EV infrastructure! Whoo!
Ozy_Flame is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:37 PM.

Calgary Flames
2017-18




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright Calgarypuck 2016