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Old 12-02-2019, 08:31 PM   #6281
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Guys, one thing a lot of people aren't considering is Gaudreau's cap hit. He's making under market in the cap world and that means a ton. I get what people are saying, that if he's not part of the future, deal him, and while fair, why deal him at his lowest point? Something isn't right but what about talking to him and figuring it out before trading the best asset for what would have been much more a year ago? Part of asset management is you don't deal guys at their lowest. Especially not the top tier players on your team.


Personally I'd keep him. He's producing at his cap hit even at his worst, and things can only get better if they work with him on whatever is bothering him.
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Old 12-02-2019, 08:47 PM   #6282
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/\ Because if we are honest with ourselves the Flames are not built for any kind sustained playoff run and look closer to a rudderless ship. Holding on to him till his final year and getting little but a first round pick from at cup contending team is not great asset management.
Sure he still may sign long term, but you better be sure.

Johnny being on a great deal should help the return if anything.
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Old 12-02-2019, 09:01 PM   #6283
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/\ Because if we are honest with ourselves the Flames are not built for any kind sustained playoff run and look closer to a rudderless ship. Holding on to him till his final year and getting little but a first round pick from at cup contending team is not great asset management.
Sure he still may sign long term, but you better be sure.

Johnny being on a great deal should help the return if anything.



That's the '22-'23 season where he's a UFA. I'm not saying necessarily you hold on all the way to that point, but you deal him when he turns it around. This isn't the best time to deal him. Contenders aren't giving you the best assets if the guy isn't coming into form heading to the playoffs. Work hard with him however necessary until he turns it on. Gotta maximize his value.
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Old 12-02-2019, 09:27 PM   #6284
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Gaudreau has had a tough, what, 25 games? And you want to trade him.

Lol.
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Old 12-02-2019, 09:31 PM   #6285
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Gaudreau has had a tough, what, 25 games? And you want to trade him.

Lol.
Personally, I'm very undecided about trading Gaudreau, but the people who do want to trade him are much more concerned about last year's playoffs than the first 29 games of this year.
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Old 12-02-2019, 09:35 PM   #6286
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I will say, I do think trading away Gaudreau makes more sense than acquiring Hall.

But I don't think they should trade Gaudreau away because they'd be selling low. And for an asset like him, that would be very weak asset management.
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Old 12-02-2019, 09:38 PM   #6287
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If you look at the excitement that is surrounding Hall, Johnny is a better player, younger, better point total on a great contract for 2 more years. Whatever Hall is going to get, you can add a first round pick to that, and there's Johnny.

Steinberg was speculating Byram, mid-roster player (salary) and a first for Colorado to get Hall.

We are talking a couple of teams on this thread, but on the open market...
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Old 12-02-2019, 09:41 PM   #6288
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One thing that would be interesting would be adding Hall this season and then exploring moving Gaudreau in the summer. The team gets one kick at the can with both and they love Gaudreau for futures at the draft and sign Hall long term?
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Old 12-02-2019, 09:44 PM   #6289
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Hall is a one trick pony. He is a better Maxim Afinogenov.
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Old 12-02-2019, 09:56 PM   #6290
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Hall is a one trick pony. He is a better Maxim Afinogenov.
That makes Hall a bigger Gaudreau. What else does Gaudreau bring other than scoring, not much else, ie one trick pony.

Flames are way too small, not built for the playoffs or tight hockey at all. Two of Gaudreau, Mangiapane, Ryan, Dube need to go. Get some bigger skill into the lineup.

The ideal thing is to sign Hall in the Summer and trade Gaudreau for a big two way skilled centre.
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Old 12-02-2019, 10:02 PM   #6291
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Hall and Gaudreau are both all offence and no defence. But IMO Gaudreau is a smarter hockey player with more unique offensive abilities.
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Old 12-02-2019, 10:03 PM   #6292
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That ask for Hall is nuts, Bowen Byram (4th overall last year) and a 2020 1st!
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Old 12-02-2019, 10:04 PM   #6293
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Every year, year in a year out the most overrated teams are always young teams with very young high end prospects. Sure Hall has not been great, but what does he really have for help?

PK Subban has been god awful
Jack Hughes at this point is a 3rd liner
Nico Hischier at this point is a 3rd liner
Blake Coleman? Didn't flames fans this summer beak at the idea of trading Frolik to add him?
Wayne Simmonds? Most of us were saying no thanks
Gusev at this point is a 3rd liner


You could make a case Kyle Palmeiri is hands down the 2nd best forward on this team. Try adding Hall to teams that has legit players. Add Hall to Tkachuk, Gaudreau, Monahan, Lindholm? Even Backlund is as good as Palmeiri.

The Devils are a bad team that looks much better on paper due to long term potential. If the return doesn't impact the core and he resigns for reasonable amount, sign me up. Based on his last 3 years, 7 years at $9.5 mil could be about what he gets.

Last edited by Macho0978; 12-02-2019 at 10:05 PM. Reason: typo
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Old 12-02-2019, 10:22 PM   #6294
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nico hischier at this point is a 3rd liner
lol!
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Old 12-02-2019, 10:25 PM   #6295
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Quote:
Originally Posted by macho0978 View Post
every year, year in a year out the most overrated teams are always young teams with very young high end prospects. Sure hall has not been great, but what does he really have for help?

Pk subban has been god awful
jack hughes at this point is a 3rd liner
nico hischier at this point is a 3rd liner

blake coleman? Didn't flames fans this summer beak at the idea of trading frolik to add him?
Wayne simmonds? Most of us were saying no thanks
gusev at this point is a 3rd liner


you could make a case kyle palmeiri is hands down the 2nd best forward on this team. Try adding hall to teams that has legit players. Add hall to tkachuk, gaudreau, monahan, lindholm? Even backlund is as good as palmeiri.

The devils are a bad team that looks much better on paper due to long term potential. If the return doesn't impact the core and he resigns for reasonable amount, sign me up. Based on his last 3 years, 7 years at $9.5 mil could be about what he gets.

lolz
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Old 12-02-2019, 11:30 PM   #6296
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Macho0978 View Post
Every year, year in a year out the most overrated teams are always young teams with very young high end prospects. Sure Hall has not been great, but what does he really have for help?

PK Subban has been god awful
Jack Hughes at this point is a 3rd liner
Nico Hischier at this point is a 3rd liner
Blake Coleman? Didn't flames fans this summer beak at the idea of trading Frolik to add him?
Wayne Simmonds? Most of us were saying no thanks
Gusev at this point is a 3rd liner


You could make a case Kyle Palmeiri is hands down the 2nd best forward on this team. Try adding Hall to teams that has legit players. Add Hall to Tkachuk, Gaudreau, Monahan, Lindholm? Even Backlund is as good as Palmeiri.

The Devils are a bad team that looks much better on paper due to long term potential. If the return doesn't impact the core and he resigns for reasonable amount, sign me up. Based on his last 3 years, 7 years at $9.5 mil could be about what he gets.

Yo, I want, whatever you're having. That's some grade A hallucinogens you got there.
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Old 12-02-2019, 11:39 PM   #6297
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That makes Hall a bigger Gaudreau. What else does Gaudreau bring other than scoring, not much else, ie one trick pony.

Flames are way too small, not built for the playoffs or tight hockey at all. Two of Gaudreau, Mangiapane, Ryan, Dube need to go. Get some bigger skill into the lineup.

The ideal thing is to sign Hall in the Summer and trade Gaudreau for a big two way skilled centre.
Who's this big skilled two way center the Flames are going to get for Gaudreau? And which GM would be foolish enough to do that?
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Old 12-02-2019, 11:56 PM   #6298
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Who's this big skilled two way center the Flames are going to get for Gaudreau? And which GM would be foolish enough to do that?
Not saying itís easy but two summers ago ROR and Brayden Schenn were both available. Kadri this past Summer. You either wait till someone becomes available or you go after young players who havenít reached that status yet (ie, Brett Howden, Nolan Patrick, etc.).

If you replace Hall with Gaudreau, itís a one for one and you have the same number of top 6 forwards, this allows you to trade Gaudreau for some younger centres with upside.

I do wonder if Coutourier is avaialable. Giroux can play centre and is their captain, they also have Kevin Hayes recently signed and a bunch of good young centre prospects. They could absorb the loss of Couturier if it came down to acquiring Gaudreau.
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Old 12-02-2019, 11:56 PM   #6299
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Who's this big skilled two way center the Flames are going to get for Gaudreau? And which GM would be foolish enough to do that?
This type of argument does nothing.

Joe Thornton a 100 point #1 centre was traded for Brad Stuart and Marco Sturm
A GM once traded Zdeno Chara and a top two pick (Jason Spezza) for Yashin.

Thereís lots of bad GMs. Thereís been endless foolish trades made in nhl history.

Gaudreau has massive trade value. If Treliving decides to move him he can move him for a great return and it doesnít have to be a rebuilding move.
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Old 12-03-2019, 02:13 AM   #6300
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Spoiler!


The Flyers have alot of good pieces and honestly Nolan Patrick is an underrated one and I think he would be available. Patrick has also been out this year so far with migraines so he hasn't played, but I would argue that brings his value down.

Frost has been playing really well on Philly's 1st line so the Flyers probably won't trade him anytime soon.
Despite the pipe dreams and wishes I don't believe Giroux, Couturier or Konecny are going anywhere without over paying.

Also touching on the point that the Flyers have insane center depth now with Couturier, Frost, and Hayes (sometimes Giroux) which makes Patrick expendable to a degree.

Based on the rumours and fan chatter if the Flyers are shopping Voracek and Gostisbehere I think it's only fair you entertain those ideas. So with that in mind:

Calgary trades Gaudreau, Hamonic, Pelletier, Frolik
Philly trades Voracek, Gostisbehere, Patrick, Laughton

Hamonic re-signed. Frolik and Laughton swap as both are being under utilized on the bottom 6, with Laughton playing out of position on the LW. Also this makes Jankowski expendable. (They also aren't the main parts of the trade just swapping dollars to make it work).

Tkachuk - Monahan - Lindholm
Mangiapane - Patrick - Voracek
Lucic - Backlund - Dube
Bennett - Laughton - Ryan

Gio - Brodie
Hanifin - Gostisbehere
Valimaki - Andersson

That's your roster when everyone is healthy and likely going into next season.

I see alot of similarities in the Flames and Flyers, plenty of star power and depth, but certain players struggling and the teams are lacking the right chemistry to make it all click. I really think a change of scenery for these players could give both teams that extra step.
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