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Old 11-08-2019, 09:16 AM   #5361
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There's other pending UFA's that interest me more than Hall that might fit the teams needs better, ie can play the right side, and be cheaper

Toffoli comes to mind first, but Dadonov and Hoffman in the summer would be interesting too.
Additionally, trading away players at good cost savings contracts like some have suggested (ie Gaudreau) and then signing a player like Hall at a UFA pricetag isn't the way to build a team either.

People can argue if they feel like it if Hall is better than Gaudreau, but Gaudreau at his contract vs Hall at 10-12 mil? There is no argument.
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Old 11-08-2019, 09:19 AM   #5362
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"Young impact players with term and/or multiple years of team control left are not often traded for draft picks. Especially those that are "two way top 6 centres".
Young(ish) top two centres are occasionally traded but yes, usually for other young players not just exclusively draft picks.

Ryan Johansen for Seth Jones
Max Domi for Galchenyuk
O’Reilly for Thompson, Berglund, Sobotka, 1st, 2nd
O’Reilly and McGinn for Zadorov, Compher, Grigorenko and early 2nd

The Flames have the assets to do these types of deals. Love to see us find another potential Lindholm. Someone who hasn’t broken out yet but is poised to.
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Old 11-08-2019, 09:22 AM   #5363
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Additionally, trading away players at good cost savings contracts like some have suggested (ie Gaudreau) and then signing a player like Hall at a UFA pricetag isn't the way to build a team either.

People can argue if they feel like it if Hall is better than Gaudreau, but Gaudreau at his contract vs Hall at 10-12 mil? There is no argument.
Well you might if you thought that (1) trading Johnny would bring some good cheap assets, bringing cap savings elsewhere; (2) Johnny was destined to leave as a UFA anyway when his contract was up; and (3) Johnny has certain off ice issues that might suggest his trade value would never be higher.

A lot of "ifs" there, but it's conceivable that trading Johnny might actually improve the team.

I don't think they can afford to simply let him walk when the time comes. So, a trade might be inevitable.
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Old 11-08-2019, 09:25 AM   #5364
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Hall doesn't move the needle for me because he doesn't bring the dimensions that the flames are really lacking:

Natural rw
3 zone compete
Multi faceted finisher
Size
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Old 11-08-2019, 09:29 AM   #5365
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Hall doesn't move the needle for me because he doesn't bring the dimensions that the flames are really lacking:

Natural rw
3 zone compete
Multi faceted finisher
Size
Out of curiosity, how many boxes of those do you need checked and who is out there that checks them?

I think you'd have to have at least the top 3 to make a guy really worth acquiring, but I am also woefully out of touch with who is available to fill that need.
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Old 11-08-2019, 09:42 AM   #5366
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Originally Posted by PepsiFree View Post
Out of curiosity, how many boxes of those do you need checked and who is out there that checks them?

I think you'd have to have at least the top 3 to make a guy really worth acquiring, but I am also woefully out of touch with who is available to fill that need.
Troy Brouwer checks those particular criteria.
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Old 11-08-2019, 09:48 AM   #5367
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Losing follows Taylor Hall around. I'm out on this one IMO, especially at the price it would cost.
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Old 11-08-2019, 09:48 AM   #5368
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Originally Posted by The Cobra View Post
"Young impact players with term and/or multiple years of team control left are not often traded for draft picks. Especially those that are "two way top 6 centres".
"as part of a package"

Of course, maybe they can find another Lindholm type who is decent right now, but poised to break out.
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Old 11-08-2019, 09:50 AM   #5369
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Losing followed Ryan O'Reilly around too.
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Old 11-08-2019, 09:50 AM   #5370
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Originally Posted by PepsiFree View Post
Out of curiosity, how many boxes of those do you need checked and who is out there that checks them?

I think you'd have to have at least the top 3 to make a guy really worth acquiring, but I am also woefully out of touch with who is available to fill that need.
The top RW right now is arguably a six foot David Pastrnak so I guess he’s out according to that criteria lol.
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Old 11-08-2019, 09:51 AM   #5371
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Losing follows Taylor Hall around. I'm out on this one IMO, especially at the price it would cost.
Just in the pros. Won back to back memorial cups, and went back to back scoring champ in those tournaments.
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Old 11-08-2019, 09:56 AM   #5372
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Out of curiosity, how many boxes of those do you need checked and who is out there that checks them?

I think you'd have to have at least the top 3 to make a guy really worth acquiring, but I am also woefully out of touch with who is available to fill that need.
Josh Anderson

He’s perfect RW for Tkachuk. Good skater and tough, perfect for a playoff run.

With him and Looch on the same team, no one will mess with the Flames skill.
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Old 11-08-2019, 09:57 AM   #5373
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Josh Anderson

He’s perfect RW for Tkachuk. Good skater and tough, perfect for a playoff run.

With him and Looch on the same team, no one will mess with the Flames skill.
Would take a kings ransom to get him though.

Every team wants players like Anderson, and every team would put in a bid.

Would likely be Dube + first + something small ... even that probably gets beat.
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Old 11-08-2019, 10:04 AM   #5374
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Losing followed Ryan O'Reilly around too.
Has anyone ever thought that maybe that has something to do with playing with two organizations that weren't winning before he arrived and didn't win after he left? You can argue Hall's in the same boat but he's not nearly as smart a hockey player as ROR nor is he a center or 3 zone player like ROR. They are totally different players.

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Old 11-08-2019, 10:24 AM   #5375
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I agree he could thrive on a team where he didn't have to be the main focus, I just don't like the cap hit it would take.

As a rental? I don't hate it I guess
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Old 11-08-2019, 10:40 AM   #5376
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Originally Posted by PepsiFree View Post
Out of curiosity, how many boxes of those do you need checked and who is out there that checks them?

I think you'd have to have at least the top 3 to make a guy really worth acquiring, but I am also woefully out of touch with who is available to fill that need.
Well, unfortunately, Mark Stone checked all those boxes and then some.

I don't think you can get all those characteristics in one guy right now without paying a debilitating price.

In this example, I'd rather have two zuckers at 5 mil than 1 Hall at 10 mil.

Anthony Mantha would be a wonderful fit if we're talking specific players. Josh Anderson to a lesser extent. Silfverberg ideal because he's under contract. Rakell is a player i'd pay through the nose for because his cap hit is perfect.
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Old 11-08-2019, 10:43 AM   #5377
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The top RW right now is arguably a six foot David Pastrnak so I guess he’s out according to that criteria lol.
lol, you don't think 6'0 190+ is size?

The second line RW right now is like 5'9 and billed at 184 but he probably only gets there when he's wet and wearing boots.
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Old 11-08-2019, 11:10 AM   #5378
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How do you re-sign Tkachuk with Ma. Stone?

You don’t.
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Old 11-08-2019, 11:13 AM   #5379
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How do you re-sign Tkachuk with Ma. Stone?

You don’t.


You make other trades.

Much like how VGK had to dump players.

I don’t understand why people are so afraid of this team going all in on a push. Do you enjoy not having top end players? Is the excitement of acquiring a player that MIGHT become something that much better than just paying the price to get THE thing we’re chasing?

Look at our recent history.

Spent a 2nd on Elliott for him to come in and suck for an entire season and then single handily get us knocked out in round 1.

Spent a 2nd on Lazar for no reason.

Spent a 4th on an absolutely useless Fantenberg.

Spent a 3rd and Hickey on 2 years of Smith, which included 1.5 years of horrible goaltending.

All those assets just pissed away. For the performances we got out of Smith and Elliott, a standard UFA goalie could have provided. A 2nd and a 4th wasted on Lazar and Fantenberg needlessly. Stop wasting smaller assets that add up over time on useless trades.

Go get exactly what you need. Pay the price, and then use all those other picks/assets that you’ve kept and challenge your scouts to get the job done.

Last edited by ComixZone; 11-08-2019 at 11:23 AM.
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Old 11-08-2019, 11:20 AM   #5380
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Well you might if you thought that (1) trading Johnny would bring some good cheap assets, bringing cap savings elsewhere; (2) Johnny was destined to leave as a UFA anyway when his contract was up; and (3) Johnny has certain off ice issues that might suggest his trade value would never be higher.

A lot of "ifs" there, but it's conceivable that trading Johnny might actually improve the team.

I don't think they can afford to simply let him walk when the time comes. So, a trade might be inevitable.
- My post was more directed at posters suggesting trading Gaudreau for Hall (with an extension in place) would be a good idea.

- I think it would be nearly impossible to make a direct improvement to the team in trading Gaudreau, while staying under the cap (no fantasy trades).

I am in no way suggesting that letting Gaudreau walk for nothing be a good idea, I don't think anyone would suggest that.
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