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Old 12-03-2019, 04:45 PM   #6361
Harry Lime
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Dimitri Filipovic✔
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This is now the 8th different head coach Taylor Hall has had since entering the league. And that number is probably going to grow by the end of the year. It's his 10th season.
Maybe that's why he never learned to play defense, and quits on plays, seasons, teammates. Whomever spends assets on Hall and signs him to a big money contract is going to regret it.
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Old 12-03-2019, 04:46 PM   #6362
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Maybe that's why he never learned to play defense, and quits on plays, seasons, teammates. Whomever spends assets on Hall and signs him to a big money contract is going to regret it.
Our current Interim Head Coach was in NJ during Hallís MVP season.
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Old 12-03-2019, 05:10 PM   #6363
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Maybe that's why he never learned to play defense, and quits on plays, seasons, teammates. Whomever spends assets on Hall and signs him to a big money contract is going to regret it.
Are there any reports of him quitting on a season or teammates? Or is this just speculation?

It's hard for me to blame him for the failure in Edmonton given what a gong show their management was at the time. He still had some good years there.

As far as I can tell his Jersey track record has been okay:

Year 1: Adjusted to a new team, had an okay year, nothing crazy.
Year 2: Single handedly dragged them into the playoffs with an MVP performance,
Year 3: Injured for the majority of the season (37 points in 33 games)
Year 4: Slow start on a terrible team that just fired their coach

Also bodes well that Ward was on the bench during his MVP season. He's been an elite player on bad teams. Would people think this lowly of Patrick Kane if he played on the Oilers and Devils his entire career instead of the Blackhawks?
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Old 12-03-2019, 05:16 PM   #6364
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Hall won the Hart trophy. It is total BS to say he doesn't play defense, quits on plays, seasons or teammates. Those two things are impossible to do together, and we only know for certain that he has done one of them.

Even when he was playing for the oilers the knocks against him were not that he was a quitter on his teammates or the season. If anything he took aggression out on teammates who he perceived had quit on the team or were only playing for stats (yakupov.)

Sure his development track was F'd beyond belief with him starting in peak oiler futility. But we saw in the last two years what he is capable of. I posit that his losing record is a symptom of him shlepping away for some truly terrible organizations and not vice versa.

To believe that your skewed opinion of Hall based on his years of play as poster boy for our least favourite organization outweighs the opinions of professional hockey pundits is irrational and arrogant. The exception is the case of Jose Theodore winning over Jarome, but we all know there was actual collusion from MO reporters on that case. Not so for Hall's well deserved MVP win.
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Old 12-03-2019, 06:09 PM   #6365
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Originally Posted by Monahammer View Post
Hall won the Hart trophy. It is total BS to say he doesn't play defense, quits on plays, seasons or teammates. Those two things are impossible to do together, and we only know for certain that he has done one of them.

Even when he was playing for the oilers the knocks against him were not that he was a quitter on his teammates or the season. If anything he took aggression out on teammates who he perceived had quit on the team or were only playing for stats (yakupov.)

Sure his development track was F'd beyond belief with him starting in peak oiler futility. But we saw in the last two years what he is capable of. I posit that his losing record is a symptom of him shlepping away for some truly terrible organizations and not vice versa.

To believe that your skewed opinion of Hall based on his years of play as poster boy for our least favourite organization outweighs the opinions of professional hockey pundits is irrational and arrogant. The exception is the case of Jose Theodore winning over Jarome, but we all know there was actual collusion from MO reporters on that case. Not so for Hall's well deserved MVP win.
Hall has never played with anyone anywhere near his level other than McDavids rookie year. I'd love to see him on a team loaded with players as good as he is.

Hughes and hischier probably will be stars some day maybe even this year. But to this point they are 40 to 50 point players

If you look at the likes of nuge eberle yakupov. So called stars he has played with in the past. You can make a good case he has played with no stars his whole career except 1 year. Put him out there with tkachuk lindholm Johnny gio Monahan. Or MacKinnon rantanen makar landeskog. I'd like to see him on a proven team with proven stars and see how good he is. Not just potential stars
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Old 12-03-2019, 06:18 PM   #6366
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There's no way Taylor Hall is an answer for the Flames. No freaking way. I have no idea how this became a thing even. More so why? Why do we want a guy that's going to cost close to 70 million dollars to play for the Flames until he is 34?

I want no part of Hall on this team, none. It goes against st the very fabric of what this organization should be doing, churning out good players via drafting. Build build build. And dont stop building.

Then, if you need to bring in assets, trade out of depth and dont sign stupid July 1 deals.

Have some of you learned nothing about signing FAs and the Flames?

Ugh. Just say no to Taylor Hall.

Last edited by dammage79; 12-03-2019 at 06:21 PM.
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Old 12-03-2019, 06:18 PM   #6367
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Hall is an elite forward.

The concern with him though isn't his current performance but his durability and performance as he ages since it's likely going to be a huge contract for 7/8 years.

Over the last three seasons AT 5V5 (2016-2019) he's carried the Devils when he's on the ice:

With Hall:
CF%: 52.1%
HDCF%: 57.9%
GF: 131
GA: 105
GF%: 55.5%

Without Hall
CF%: 46.6%
HDCF%: 49.3%
GF: 282
GA: 378
GF%: 42.7%

When he's on the ice they look like an elite team, but then when he's not on the ice they are so bad they finish in the lottery.

I'm not sure that the team performance is really his fault here.
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Old 12-03-2019, 06:28 PM   #6368
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Originally Posted by SuperMatt18 View Post
Hall is an elite forward.

The concern with him though isn't his current performance but his durability and performance as he ages since it's likely going to be a huge contract for 7/8 years.

Over the last three seasons AT 5V5 (2016-2019) he's carried the Devils when he's on the ice:

With Hall:
CF%: 52.1%
HDCF%: 57.9%
GF: 131
GA: 105
GF%: 55.5%

Without Hall
CF%: 46.6%
HDCF%: 49.3%
GF: 282
GA: 378
GF%: 42.7%

When he's on the ice they look like an elite team, but then when he's not on the ice they are so bad they finish in the lottery.

I'm not sure that the team performance is really his fault here.
If you replaced hall's name with player x I imagine everyone on this board would want to sign him and be howling to make an offer.

We hold grudges around here apparently. Signing a recent hart winner is so far out of the ordinary for the flames and comparing it to other FA signings like neal and brouwer is, frankly, stupid.
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Old 12-03-2019, 06:37 PM   #6369
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Originally Posted by Harry Lime View Post
Maybe that's why he never learned to play defense, and quits on plays, seasons, teammates. Whomever spends assets on Hall and signs him to a big money contract is going to regret it.
Matthew Tkachuk is now playing for his 4th head coach in his 4th year in the NHL.

Must quit on plays, teammates, seasons even more than Hall.
Am I doing this right?
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Old 12-03-2019, 06:40 PM   #6370
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Originally Posted by Monahammer View Post
If you replaced hall's name with player x I imagine everyone on this board would want to sign him and be howling to make an offer.

We hold grudges around here apparently. Signing a recent hart winner is so far out of the ordinary for the flames and comparing it to other FA signings like neal and brouwer is, frankly, stupid.
This team cannot afford to pay 70m for ANOTHER LW. That is what is called stupid. Much like your attitude in this thread. That's stupid too.

If you told me 5 years ago you could get Taylor Hall for what he is going to make ,sure I'd buy that. Not at 27 years old though
There is no way shape or form that a team desperate for another top six center. A continuous bleeding from the artery dire need for a top line RW needs another pure LW making more.money than the franchise players (take your pick).

Its dumb to even think this team can switch gears to accommodate him and the plethora of new contracts due to some of our own home grown players who have earned their pay raises.

Taylor Hall is absolutely not a fit for this organization in any way. Save maybe talent. But that's all I'd concede. Hes super talented. And everything else breaks this team.

Last edited by dammage79; 12-03-2019 at 06:43 PM.
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Old 12-03-2019, 07:29 PM   #6371
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Matthew Tkachuk is now playing for his 4th head coach in his 4th year in the NHL.

Must quit on plays, teammates, seasons even more than Hall.
Am I doing this right?
3rd coach
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Old 12-03-2019, 07:34 PM   #6372
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I’m all for Hall being a Flame

There is just zero evidence that he is willing to take a discount to come here, and we don’t have the cap to win the bidding war. There are teams who are higher than us in the standings with more assets to trade that will land him with an extension before we get much of a chance I am expecting.
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Old 12-03-2019, 08:43 PM   #6373
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Iím all for Hall being a Flame

There is just zero evidence that he is willing to take a discount to come here, and we donít have the cap to win the bidding war. There are teams who are higher than us in the standings with more assets to trade that will land him with an extension before we get much of a chance I am expecting.
Finally some good news!
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Old 12-03-2019, 09:29 PM   #6374
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Re: Hall-mania.
***Warning - Orange Julius story incoming.***

An actor friend of mine was in LA and ended up spending the night at a party at Dallas Eakins house. His wife is an actor apparently. As a hockey nerd he was grilling Eakins. This was while he was coaching the Anaheim farm team in San Diego, so after his time with the Oilers.

He said that when he was fired by Edmonton he said "I'm going to tell you two things. You will never win with Yakupov or Hall on your roster. Even if you get nothing back, until you get rid of those two you're going nowhere." Now, of course, they haven't won without those guys, but it seems telling to me. He described Hall as the most selfish player he'd ever seen. The kind of guy, he said, who would be on a 2 on 1 and yell at the other guy for not passing to him, even if they scored.

Obviously, this is second hand, so take it with a grain of salt. But for me, it supports the idea that he's not the type of person this team needs, in spite of his obvious natural hockey talent.

Flame away.
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Old 12-03-2019, 09:42 PM   #6375
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If Treliving is interested in moving Johnny at some point heíd do well to get the word out to eastern teams. I would think a few eastern conference GMs would pay extra just to keep him off their rivalís team.
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Old 12-03-2019, 09:58 PM   #6376
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I canít frickin wait for Hall to sign in Colorado or Montreal so we can stop hearing about how former MVP Hall is just what the Flames need.

Flames donít need him, Flames canít afford him and his Hart season was an anomaly.
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Old 12-03-2019, 10:54 PM   #6377
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I canít frickin wait for Hall to sign in Colorado or Montreal so we can stop hearing about how former MVP Hall is just what the Flames need.

Flames donít need him, Flames canít afford him and his Hart season was an anomaly.
I am sure they're are already 5 other studs willing to be had for Jankowski, Frolik and Brodie.
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Old 12-03-2019, 11:18 PM   #6378
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There's no way Taylor Hall is an answer for the Flames. No freaking way. I have no idea how this became a thing even. More so why? Why do we want a guy that's going to cost close to 70 million dollars to play for the Flames until he is 34?

I want no part of Hall on this team, none. It goes against st the very fabric of what this organization should be doing, churning out good players via drafting. Build build build. And dont stop building.

Then, if you need to bring in assets, trade out of depth and dont sign stupid July 1 deals.

Have some of you learned nothing about signing FAs and the Flames?

Ugh. Just say no to Taylor Hall.
What high end FA forward have the Flames ever signed? The problem has been paying big money for mediocre players.

Hall is a really good player and will help any team he goes to...I mean he would be 2nd on the team in scoring in his "terrible year" if he came here tomorrow.
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Old 12-03-2019, 11:22 PM   #6379
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Re: Hall-mania.
***Warning - Orange Julius story incoming.***

An actor friend of mine was in LA and ended up spending the night at a party at Dallas Eakins house. His wife is an actor apparently. As a hockey nerd he was grilling Eakins. This was while he was coaching the Anaheim farm team in San Diego, so after his time with the Oilers.

He said that when he was fired by Edmonton he said "I'm going to tell you two things. You will never win with Yakupov or Hall on your roster. Even if you get nothing back, until you get rid of those two you're going nowhere." Now, of course, they haven't won without those guys, but it seems telling to me. He described Hall as the most selfish player he'd ever seen. The kind of guy, he said, who would be on a 2 on 1 and yell at the other guy for not passing to him, even if they scored.

Obviously, this is second hand, so take it with a grain of salt. But for me, it supports the idea that he's not the type of person this team needs, in spite of his obvious natural hockey talent.

Flame away.
John Scott disagrees...

https://www.beerleagueheroes.com/joh...-the-shower-2/
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Old 12-03-2019, 11:22 PM   #6380
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I canít frickin wait for Hall to sign in Colorado or Montreal so we can stop hearing about how former MVP Hall is just what the Flames need.

Flames donít need him, Flames canít afford him and his Hart season was an anomaly.
lol yeah that would be awesome, they would be unstoppable
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