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Old 12-03-2019, 12:39 PM   #3341
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I think the existing clubs have to be sustainable before we see any increase in the salary cap. The demand for what people are willing to pay for a game has been established and until that demand goes up the cap stays at a level that keeps these clubs afloat. These owners aren't going to throw money away for a fan base that may or may not grow as a result of the money spend.

I think Cavalry are in decent shape, but until clubs like York 9 are in the same shape the cap stays where it is, or sees very modest increases.
I understand the need to build a base, but North American fans are pretty fickle though.

I’m not saying that the cap should suddenly rise to MLS levels, but a bit of growth (say 5%) to allow teams that can afford to keep their players and add to them for Canadian Championship and CONCACAF League is important too. That amount, while relatively small (probably $50k or so) could mean the difference between a Pasquotti or Borges being a CanPL star or MLS sub. If people see stagnation, or too much of a revolving door of their favourite players, they may walk. Even fans willing to pay today.

MLS didn’t start taking off until teams began to splash cash on names within a salary cap environment (and not every team did it). That should be the medium term goal here too.

North Americans seem obsessed with parity, but a better playoff system will be far more exciting to fans than parity and holding every team down to the lowest team’s abilities. York might have been healthier if they had something to play for in September and October.
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Old 12-03-2019, 12:53 PM   #3342
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I understand the need to build a base, but North American fans are pretty fickle though.

Iím not saying that the cap should suddenly rise to MLS levels, but a bit of growth (say 5%) to allow teams that can afford to keep their players and add to them for Canadian Championship and CONCACAF League is important too. That amount, while relatively small (probably $50k or so) could mean the difference between a Pasquotti or Borges being a CanPL star or MLS sub. If people see stagnation, or too much of a revolving door of their favourite players, they may walk. Even fans willing to pay today.

MLS didnít start taking off until teams began to splash cash on names within a salary cap environment (and not every team did it). That should be the medium term goal here too.

North Americans seem obsessed with parity, but a better playoff system will be far more exciting to fans than parity and holding every team down to the lowest teamís abilities. York might have been healthier if they had something to play for in September and October.

This is not necessarily true, there are two marketing models in North American sports. There is the ' this is an important game because it matters' and there is the ' come see the stars play' model. The NFL is come see the stars play, because the best Athletes play in the NFL, the NBA same thing. The issue with the CPL, is unless the league gets bought by billionaires the top 500 athletes aren't coming over to play. There simply will not be star power. I'm not saying this model doesn't work in the NFL or NBA, but its a case of knowing what you are working with

Now, if you look at the other model. That is the every game matters model, it has proven to work as well. College Foot ball, and College Basketball have proven that if you can makes teams competitive with one another and you can create a structure so that rivalries, and game results feel like they matter, people will go to games.

It's a bums in seats league, and the bottom line people are not paying to come and watch Zator, or Carducci, they are paying to watch a team from Calagry beat a team from Edmonton, and if that isn't happening, they are paying to watch Cavalry FC play in a game where if they win it matters. That is why league attendance declined at the end of the fall season. The results didn't matter any more.

Not every team has to be good, they don't need to make every team as good as the worst team. The league needs there to be enough good teams that there is a race to the top, so teams are competing with each other in the standings as well as on the pitch.
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Old 12-03-2019, 01:36 PM   #3343
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Have you had a chance to talk about finances? Do you know if the team is getting the ROI they expected?
I have not, and I highly doubt anyone at the club would give me an honest answer if they did.

What I have heard is that for every butt in a seat, they were bringing in $60 in merchandise, concessions, parking and whatever else is included in game day revenue outside of the actual ticket purchase. Combine that with the actual revenue from ticket sales including the cup run and finals, and I have to speculate that the finances are pretty decent for this level.

But again, there are clubs that simply cannot be making money. Take Edmonton for example. They drew less fans than Cavalry and attendances dipped as the season went on. Their ticket prices are cheaper. They have to pay rent at their stadium. They don't get concession revenue. Their owner won't market the club and they won't put money into the stadium to make the experience better.

But the league needs to make sure Edmonton is stable as their presence benefits the better off clubs such as Cavalry.
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Old 12-03-2019, 01:44 PM   #3344
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I understand the need to build a base, but North American fans are pretty fickle though.

Iím not saying that the cap should suddenly rise to MLS levels, but a bit of growth (say 5%) to allow teams that can afford to keep their players and add to them for Canadian Championship and CONCACAF League is important too. That amount, while relatively small (probably $50k or so) could mean the difference between a Pasquotti or Borges being a CanPL star or MLS sub. If people see stagnation, or too much of a revolving door of their favourite players, they may walk. Even fans willing to pay today.

MLS didnít start taking off until teams began to splash cash on names within a salary cap environment (and not every team did it). That should be the medium term goal here too.

North Americans seem obsessed with parity, but a better playoff system will be far more exciting to fans than parity and holding every team down to the lowest teamís abilities. York might have been healthier if they had something to play for in September and October.
People also forget that MLS folded briefly in 2001 before being revived and took another 6 years before they signed Beckham. Were it not for two owners propping up the entire league there would be no MLS, and probably no CPL either. Sustainability is key in the early years.

Would you rather see York drop out and 6 teams playing with better players?
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Old 12-03-2019, 01:55 PM   #3345
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Kind of an aside, but since this thread is a little busier today, it is cool that this is the most viewed thread in this Sub-Forum. 159,217 views, 3345 posts is no joke (even if I am half of them), I think that it reflects how successful the first season was.
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Old 12-03-2019, 02:00 PM   #3346
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What makes me happy is seeing the Cavalry logo window stickers on vehicles in this city. I saw one this morning again and I got a big, stupid grin on my face.

Is it Spring yet?
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Old 12-03-2019, 02:03 PM   #3347
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With the weather today I was really wishing there was a game to go to so I could have something to incentivize me to hang outside in the sun.
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Old 12-03-2019, 02:07 PM   #3348
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Kind of an aside, but since this thread is a little busier today, it is cool that this is the most viewed thread in this Sub-Forum. 159,217 views, 3345 posts is no joke (even if I am half of them), I think that it reflects how successful the first season was.
Might be time for a 2020 Cavalry FC Season thread!
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Old 12-03-2019, 07:52 PM   #3349
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I understand the need to build a base, but North American fans are pretty fickle though.

Iím not saying that the cap should suddenly rise to MLS levels, but a bit of growth (say 5%) to allow teams that can afford to keep their players and add to them for Canadian Championship and CONCACAF League is important too. That amount, while relatively small (probably $50k or so) could mean the difference between a Pasquotti or Borges being a CanPL star or MLS sub. If people see stagnation, or too much of a revolving door of their favourite players, they may walk. Even fans willing to pay today.

MLS didnít start taking off until teams began to splash cash on names within a salary cap environment (and not every team did it). That should be the medium term goal here too.

North Americans seem obsessed with parity, but a better playoff system will be far more exciting to fans than parity and holding every team down to the lowest teamís abilities. York might have been healthier if they had something to play for in September and October.
I think if there is going to be a cap exception, I'd make it for homegrown stars. This incentivizes development of young Canadians, and promotes stability in the league.

My proposal would be that any Canadian player you first sign young (say under 24?) only counts against the cap at his first contract salary as long as he's continuously under contract for the club. So maybe Pasquotti has a great year and earns a $25k raise, then cavalry could give it to him and still remain cap compliant because he's a homegrown product.
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Old 12-03-2019, 09:07 PM   #3350
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I think if there is going to be a cap exception, I'd make it for homegrown stars. This incentivizes development of young Canadians, and promotes stability in the league.

My proposal would be that any Canadian player you first sign young (say under 24?) only counts against the cap at his first contract salary as long as he's continuously under contract for the club. So maybe Pasquotti has a great year and earns a $25k raise, then cavalry could give it to him and still remain cap compliant because he's a homegrown product.
I like this idea a lot. It allows teams to hold onto top players and be able to sell for a greater profit, and keep continuity on their rosters.

I was thinking something like 2 designated players, but one has to be Canadian, and you can't have a foreign DP unless you also have a Canadian DP. This way if Forge, Cavalry, etc. decide to roll the dice on a bigger name, they also have to lock in a Canadian outside of their cap as well.

Either way, need to find the line between growing the competition level and not pricing out teams NY Cosmos style.
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Old 12-03-2019, 09:25 PM   #3351
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I like this idea a lot. It allows teams to hold onto top players and be able to sell for a greater profit, and keep continuity on their rosters.

I was thinking something like 2 designated players, but one has to be Canadian, and you can't have a foreign DP unless you also have a Canadian DP. This way if Forge, Cavalry, etc. decide to roll the dice on a bigger name, they also have to lock in a Canadian outside of their cap as well.

Either way, need to find the line between growing the competition level and not pricing out teams NY Cosmos style.
This could be something down the road in 2 or 3 years, but as mentioned, the league has to stabilize in multiple markets for a couple years at least, before you start allowing teams that can afford it, to spend more money.

In my opinion, outside of the Cavs, Forge and probably Halifax, this year didn’t meet the financial expectations of the rest of the teams in the league, or the league itself. One Soccer pulling back early, IMO Macron pulling back. Whether sponsors were promised more exposure or ticket sales or what, I don’t think the league delivered anywhere close to what was expected (or promised major sponsors at least)in attendance or viewership.

Call it parity or not, but in a league with only a year under its belt, and a lot of teams IMO not likely to survive if they have another 2 seasons like this past one, it’s very unlikely the league will grant the ability to widen the talent/success gap even further. Roster rules will change, contracts may change as far as term (I’ve heard contracts now are going to be a couple months longer then last year, with not necessarily the proportionate increase in pay), and other things, to keep the teams competitive until the York 9s and Valour and Pacific get some solid fan/financial footing.

If not, the league could be again shortlived, with maybe a few teams somehow joining the USL and ending another national league before the country hosts a handful of WC games.
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Old 12-03-2019, 09:33 PM   #3352
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This could be something down the road in 2 or 3 years, but as mentioned, the league has to stabilize in multiple markets for a couple years at least, before you start allowing teams that can afford it, to spend more money.

In my opinion, outside of the Cavs, Forge and probably Halifax, this year didnít meet the financial expectations of the rest of the teams in the league, or the league itself. One Soccer pulling back early, IMO Macron pulling back. Whether sponsors were promised more exposure or ticket sales or what, I donít think the league delivered anywhere close to what was expected (or promised major sponsors at least)in attendance or viewership.

Call it parity or not, but in a league with only a year under its belt, and a lot of teams IMO not likely to survive if they have another 2 seasons like this past one, itís very unlikely the league will grant the ability to widen the talent/success gap even further. Roster rules will change, contracts may change as far as term (Iíve heard contracts now are going to be a couple months longer then last year, with not necessarily the proportionate increase in pay), and other things, to keep the teams competitive until the York 9s and Valour and Pacific get some solid fan/financial footing.

If not, the league could be again shortlived, with maybe a few teams somehow joining the USL and ending another national league before the country hosts a handful of WC games.
This is interesting, I'd like to know what the sponsors were promised or were expecting.

One would think that a lot of the sponsors would be largely prepared to take a bath in the first few years for the opportunity to get in on the ground floor of something like this.
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Old 12-04-2019, 08:57 AM   #3353
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I like this idea a lot. It allows teams to hold onto top players and be able to sell for a greater profit, and keep continuity on their rosters.

I was thinking something like 2 designated players, but one has to be Canadian, and you can't have a foreign DP unless you also have a Canadian DP. This way if Forge, Cavalry, etc. decide to roll the dice on a bigger name, they also have to lock in a Canadian outside of their cap as well.

Either way, need to find the line between growing the competition level and not pricing out teams NY Cosmos style.
I'm not huge on the DP concept MLS has. Would rather see the cap raised as a whole and the level for all players raised rather than bringing in a few big names per team.

Plus, I'm not sure what the CPL would have to offer for a Canadian DP, unless you're an aging player such as Hutchinson looking for one last big payday. Can't think of a player out there right now that would fit the bill.
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Old 12-04-2019, 09:16 AM   #3354
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I'm not huge on the DP concept MLS has. Would rather see the cap raised as a whole and the level for all players raised rather than bringing in a few big names per team.

Plus, I'm not sure what the CPL would have to offer for a Canadian DP, unless you're an aging player such as Hutchinson looking for one last big payday. Can't think of a player out there right now that would fit the bill.
Thats actually a really wise strategy for MLS though. They brought in recognized names to help grow a new league and it worked.
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Old 12-04-2019, 09:42 AM   #3355
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FC Edmonton just signed Hanson Boakai, 4 years after he left the club thinking he was hot #### and crashed down to Earth in Europe by getting cut by multiple clubs at poor levels (Croatian 2nd division, Romanian 2nd division, Swedish 3rd division). He barely played last year in the Finnish top flight which is a comparable level to CPL.

FC Edmonton is no good.
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Old 12-04-2019, 09:43 AM   #3356
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Thats actually a really wise strategy for MLS though. They brought in recognized names to help grow a new league and it worked.
In some markets, yes. In other markets, it didn't. Montreal is a good example where people showed up when Drogba was there and left when he left.
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Old 12-04-2019, 10:27 AM   #3357
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FC Edmonton just signed Hanson Boakai, 4 years after he left the club thinking he was hot #### and crashed down to Earth in Europe by getting cut by multiple clubs at poor levels (Croatian 2nd division, Romanian 2nd division, Swedish 3rd division). He barely played last year in the Finnish top flight which is a comparable level to CPL.

FC Edmonton is no good.
So I played against this kid years ago. He had great feet, but was soft as butter. Feet don't matter if you can't stay on the ball, which is probably why he never made it overseas.

And yes, he was always very cocky. Much trash was spoken from me to him. My greatest asset.
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Old 12-04-2019, 10:43 AM   #3358
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So I played against this kid years ago. He had great feet, but was soft as butter. Feet don't matter if you can't stay on the ball, which is probably why he never made it overseas.

And yes, he was always very cocky. Much trash was spoken from me to him. My greatest asset.
I love those uber skilled guys who feel entitled to ball possession and space, then get indignant when a less skilled but more determined player muscles the ball away.

Give me the Pasquotti's of the world all day long. Love that guys desire and hustle.
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Old 12-04-2019, 11:15 AM   #3359
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Thats actually a really wise strategy for MLS though. They brought in recognized names to help grow a new league and it worked.
It worked, but the MLS was trying to establish something different then what the CPL is doing. The MLS wanted, and probably still wants to be a top division globally. Their direct comparison is probably the KHL. Their intend is to make an American equivalent to the EPL. To do that, they need big crowds, big money and big names ( typically in that order).

That said, the CPL love it or hate it is more like Liiga ( the finish premier hockey league). It is beloved by fans, modest attendance ( it looks like Ligga averages 4000 fans),competitive against each other, decent talent, some old stars, and some younger players who move on to bigger markets if they are good enough. Actually that comparison is near perfect -the KHL has a team in Finland much the same as the MLS has a few in Canada.

There is nothing wrong with the CPL being what it is. If the league tops out at 5000 average attendance and 12 teams that is okay with me so long as they serve beer and play in the summer.
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Old 12-04-2019, 11:19 AM   #3360
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It worked, but the MLS was trying to establish something different then what the CPL is doing. The MLS wanted, and probably still wants to be a top division globally. Their direct comparison is probably the KHL. Their intend is to make an American equivalent to the EPL. To do that, they need big crowds, big money and big names ( typically in that order).

That said, the CPL love it or hate it is more like Liiga ( the finish premier hockey league). It is beloved by fans, modest attendance ( it looks like Ligga averages 4000 fans),competitive against each other, decent talent, some old stars, and some younger players who move on to bigger markets if they are good enough. Actually that comparison is near perfect -the KHL has a team in Finland much the same as the MLS has a few in Canada.

There is nothing wrong with the CPL being what it is. If the league tops out at 5000 average attendance and 12 teams that is okay with me so long as they serve beer and play in the summer.
Oh, absolutely agree. There is no sense in trying to be too big.
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