Job Seekers thread Mark 2

[RichieRich]

Have a PT job offer... but the president is really dragging his heals answering questions. It would be under-employment for sure. Could have great long term potential growth/income, but starts really low.

Have another interview today for an intown set-term contract role. At this point unknown if extension is possible (or conversion to staff). Then another contract interview next week but it's mostly out of town work.

Never seems to be easy does it? Especially after so so many months off work. sigh...

[CaptainReboot]

After being laid off from an O&G company back in June, and over 100 applications, lots of PFO's (some almost immediately, some even PFO'd me more than once) and just a handful of interviews, I'll finally be joining the workforce again next week!!

Landed an IT role with a company based out of the US, so it will be 100% remote. An old boss of mine who is working there found out I was looking and asked if I would be interested in joining their team. I obviously said yes as it sounds like good opportunity to learn some new skills and do more meaningful work, rather than what I was doing before, which was basically taking orders and reacting when head office breaks something.

Starting off as a contractor until they can onboard me as an employee. They have never hired a Canadian before, so it's a new process for them. They do have an operating entity in Calgary from an acquisition so that will help.

Thanks to all those in the thread for the helpful info and for making me not feel like I was alone in this!

[FLAMESRULE]

Originally Posted by Izzle

Update: I got an offer... But it's lower than I expected.

If I accept, I'd be going from a job that I don't mind doing to something I'm more familiar with. The current job I have has a pension tho, and the new one doesn't even have an RRSP match. This is a tough decision

Sweet! Congrats on the offer.

I'm in the exact same boat, offer received yesterday...pay is the VERY bottom of the range. I'm trying to transition out of O+G and it does seem like a great opportunity. Trying to negotiate a bit but I just have no idea on how far too push.

For me its coming down to 1 - Team, 2 - Opportunity, 3 - Passion, 4 - Future growth...think I may be finally back in the saddle...but these are tough decisions!!

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Izzle

Update: I got an offer... But it's lower than I expected.

If I accept, I'd be going from a job that I don't mind doing to something I'm more familiar with. The current job I have has a pension tho, and the new one doesn't even have an RRSP match. This is a tough decision

My advice, never walk away from a pension if possible. That is an irreplaceable benefit that you will rue walking away from. You don't appreciate it until you get to the age where you're doing retirement planning, then it really strikes home the massive benefit you have been given over the years.

[CaptainCrunch]

Sorry Richie, its not easy and things are so in flux especially in Alberta. I love helping people with their resume's and interview skills, but I get my heart broken daily talking to some really desperate people. I'm hearing about people worried about their EI stuff running out. Or that have slowly been going under, Or sending out lot of resume's and seeing that they're competiting with pools of 5 or 6 or 700 people for Jobs.


Its also really a buyers market right now, so offers are low compared to where they were at (But I still recommend taking it if it makes sense for them and gets them employed). Or offers are short term work of part time. Or even the worse are the ones that are just resume fishing for people when this pandemic stuff subsides, or just stocking the pond.



I had one gentleman he was excited last week, he had an offer, then was called that with the halting of Keystone, they were pulling his offer off of the table.


Sorry I'm venting. I'm really hyped that you're getting activity, you seem to be ahead of the curve right now. With the one where he's dragging his heels on answering questions, depending on the questions, its a Red Flag for me, and you have the right to maybe delicately ask the why question on that because you have a right to be comfortable.



Keep doing the interviews, they may sound bad right now, but if they put money in your pocket and give you something to do whether under employed or not, its worth looking at accepting with the understanding that its a gap fill on your resume after all of your months off.


Sorry about the tone of this post, I feel like I've let down some people recently.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by CaptainReboot

After being laid off from an O&G company back in June, and over 100 applications, lots of PFO's (some almost immediately, some even PFO'd me more than once) and just a handful of interviews, I'll finally be joining the workforce again next week!!

Landed an IT role with a company based out of the US, so it will be 100% remote. An old boss of mine who is working there found out I was looking and asked if I would be interested in joining their team. I obviously said yes as it sounds like good opportunity to learn some new skills and do more meaningful work, rather than what I was doing before, which was basically taking orders and reacting when head office breaks something.

Starting off as a contractor until they can onboard me as an employee. They have never hired a Canadian before, so it's a new process for them. They do have an operating entity in Calgary from an acquisition so that will help.

Thanks to all those in the thread for the helpful info and for making me not feel like I was alone in this!

Awesome news! I'm really happy for you.

[FurnaceFace]

You have options though which is great! Hopefully you have some time to decide and at least have a better sense from the contract role about the long term possibilities. Also I wonder if the rate/salary difference between a short term contract vs a part time perm would equal out over a 12 month period. I might be more inclined to take the (assumed) 6 month temp role thinking you could get extended or 6 months from now vaccines will have helped stabilise things and more opportunities are available.
——-

I have had an annoying week and need to vent. I was recently contacted about two different contract opportunities.

One of them I had two recruiters contact me about 20 minutes apart. Recruiter 1 I know better, plus they contacted me first so I told recruiter 2 I was going with first recruiter but if something changed I’d circle back. I go through the usual with recruiter 1, adjust some things on my resume which they always want, and submit it in. I then hear back late Tuesday that when the recruiter put forward my resume the account exec/manager refused it as they had “better candidates”. Sigh, fine, this isn’t the first time. I go back hat in hand to recruiter 2, and they tell me they have already submitted their allotted candidates. Not totally unexpected but annoying.

Then Wednesday I hear back from the recruiter on the other opportunity and it’s basically the exact same thing. Account exec is going with others because reasons. I’m mostly annoyed by this one as I spent a lot of time tweaking my resume and going back and forth with the recruiter to match things to the role. I also went the extra step of taking a quick course in a technology this position would work with. I feel like I spent 8 hours of work plus general “thinking about it” time for nothing.

I’m really tired of recruiters hyping up a role and then them not being the final decision makers and having account managers deny. I mostly feel like they’ve wasted my time and just added stress and annoyance.

At the end of the week I haven’t been submitted for either. I don’t mind losing out on a role if they saw my resume but had better candidates or I met the company and they just didn’t see a fit. I hate not getting that shot at all and hate that they never even saw my resume.

The lesson learned is to perhaps be more forceful with the recruiters and demand a right to represent or similar is signed before going ahead, especially when contacted for the same role by multiple agencies. I get that they are a business and need to put the best candidates forward, but don’t string me along. I don’t know what the answer is but these games suck. Captain, perhaps you have some insights from the other side.

I’m trying to take the positive that I learned something new that I can add to my resume and I have another version of my resume ready for a similar opportunity, but that only goes so far. It’ll happen when it happens as I like to say.

[CaptainCrunch]

Just some insight and maybe some tips on the recruiter side of things, because I think there needs to be some understanding on that side of things.


Recruiters don't get paid until they place. They're somewhat you're shield and a shield to the hiring company. If its not a high end recruiter they're work with the final decision makers can be somewhat limited. They work with them in terms of building a job description and recommending compensation. And they're depended on to be the vetting source in terms of first interviews, in terms of doing things like ref checks and background checks.


However they usually are then referred to someone in HR or a hiring manager that doesn't hire without approval from the key decision makers. So they can get caught in the cycle of rapid changes to job descriptions based on resumes and interview feedback, changes in time lines etc. It can be just as frustrating for the Recruiter as it is for you. However Recruiters aren't paid to foster the normal candidate to hirer relationship if that makes sense. They are a tool that shields that hiring person from a raft of resumes and a ton of interviews, and most importantly the rejection process.


You absolutely have a right to vette the recruiter, ask questions. What's you're relationship with the hiring company, What level are you dealing at, the HR level, executive level. Some poor dumb admin person who takes submissions to the boss? Good recruiters, and I considered myself to be very good and am still very good (There's my ego) will be able to at least state the level that they're dealing with and have a firm grasp of how the Job description works, and what the time line is. At that point if the recruiter has that he or she has a solid sense of time and the red flags for the role. Feel free to ask about the time lines and honest feedback.


Oh yeah and because things are so hectic and automated for recruiters don't expect a lot of post interview feedback, at best he system spits out a PFO, though if you've built a relationship with the recruiter you might get some feedback on where things went south.


Also, please please please. Do some deep study of the recruiters company or the recruiter himself, you can find all kind of review mechanics on line for recruiting firms and their market reputation.


Also please don't give any information that you're not comfortable with, some might require things like the disclosure of you're T4 or income verification, or in key roles things like credit scores or criminal back ground checks. Its ok to be a bit firm on who you need to talk to outside of the recruiter before doing this.


Good recruiters that you build good relationship can hook you into a job market that you might not have access to. Bad recruiters can inadvertently torpedo you.



Hope this helps.

[RichieRich]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Sorry Richie, its not easy and things are so in flux especially in Alberta. I love helping people with their resume's and interview skills, but I get my heart broken daily talking to some really desperate people. I'm hearing about people worried about their EI stuff running out. Or that have slowly been going under, Or sending out lot of resume's and seeing that they're competiting with pools of 5 or 6 or 700 people for Jobs.
Its also really a buyers market right now, so offers are low compared to where they were at (But I still recommend taking it if it makes sense for them and gets them employed). Or offers are short term work of part time. Or even the worse are the ones that are just resume fishing for people when this pandemic stuff subsides, or just stocking the pond.
I had one gentleman he was excited last week, he had an offer, then was called that with the halting of Keystone, they were pulling his offer off of the table.
Sorry I'm venting. I'm really hyped that you're getting activity, you seem to be ahead of the curve right now. With the one where he's dragging his heels on answering questions, depending on the questions, its a Red Flag for me, and you have the right to maybe delicately ask the why question on that because you have a right to be comfortable.
Keep doing the interviews, they may sound bad right now, but if they put money in your pocket and give you something to do whether under employed or not, its worth looking at accepting with the understanding that its a gap fill on your resume after all of your months off.
Sorry about the tone of this post, I feel like I've let down some people recently.

I appreciate your detailed reply and support... and think what you've said applies to many of us (either presently, or recently, or upcoming). Outside of this CP system I also try to be supportive of my industry colleagues, friends, and family. Not everyone has the capacity, inclination, or grace to acknowledge or accept, but rest assured even the ACT of offering is often the support people need. There is NOTHING wrong with accepting offers of help and/or another set of eyes. Oh jeez... some of the cover letters and resume disasters I have seen are incredible... and this is even after some of them have been so-called reviewed by others.



I suspect that although many of us want "the" job, right now so many are accepting "any" job just to keep busy, tread water, have something to show on the resume, etc. Assuming job availability somewhat improves over the next 6+ months all of those folks will be looking to move again in order to improve their position/economic situation.

[FurnaceFace]

Thanks Cap. I understand the recruiter is there to screen things for the company they are submitting to and that the company makes the final decision. What I understand from some transactions is the recruiter has done their vetting and then the account manager for the recruiting company makes a final decision on who gets presented to the customer. The recruiting company has a double vetting processing which is the annoyance as it seems one rarely gets to talk directly with the account manager (final recruiter decision maker) therefore it’s extremely tough to build rapport with them. Those are the people I really want to talk to because I feel if they got to know me from a conversation they’d better see my strengths and then when they are talking to the hiring company could give them a bit more detail on those strengths.

That all of course takes time which they likely don’t have but it’s frustrating to do what the recruiting company asks for and then not get submitted because of someone up the line. I’ve worked with other recruiters who are maybe a bit smaller and have a one to one relationship which has worked or in one case I basically interviewed for the recruiting company where the recruiter, account manager, and an executive were in attendance. That worked really well and they placed me in my best contract role as they were all able to see a clear fit.

[Izzle]

Originally Posted by New Era

My advice, never walk away from a pension if possible. That is an irreplaceable benefit that you will rue walking away from. You don't appreciate it until you get to the age where you're doing retirement planning, then it really strikes home the massive benefit you have been given over the years.

This is, without doubt, the biggest source of my dilemma. The pension is wonderful and I can pretty much tie up my retirement years in a neat little bow if I work the current job till retirement.

But with the new job, if even 60% of the things the CFO said during the interview comes to pass, I'd be retiring earlier. And I would enjoy doing the new job more until my retirement.

Does CP have an actuary whose brain I could pick?? :S

[FurnaceFace]

What happens if none of it comes to pass?

[CaptainCrunch]

Add on, be very careful to make sure you're recruiter is not blind apply to a role that he or she doesn't have a contract to fill. A lot of recruiters will see an add on linkedin for example and just fire candidates with a blurb that they can help so they can maybe weasel in. If they don't have a signed contract for a role and blind submit you, you will be dead to the company and the recruiter doing the actual contract.


Remember that you're resume and reputation are attached to that recruiter.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Izzle

This is, without doubt, the biggest source of my dilemma. The pension is wonderful and I can pretty much tie up my retirement years in a neat little bow if I work the current job till retirement.

But with the new job, if even 60% of the things the CFO said during the interview comes to pass, I'd be retiring earlier. And I would enjoy doing the new job more until my retirement.

Does CP have an actuary whose brain I could pick?? :S

Always consider that a sell job. I worked for a company that made similar promises and was going to let me retire at 45. Then the dotcom crash hit and me an 10,000 fiends were all out of work overnight. The story is long and ugly, but one I learned some good lessons from. Count on what is proven. The only guarantee they can provide you is the general benefits package they provide. Stock options and bonuses are black boxes and should not be counted on in your planning IMO. I count 401K/RRSP match programs in there as well as you assume all the risk and they can pull the rug out from under you during hard times and stop contributions (speaking from experience). The choice between a 401K/RRSP match is a no brainer. Pensions are much safer because they are usually collectively bargained for and usually protected, so they are a much more guaranteed thing.

You have a tough decision. I know which way I would go because I've been screwed over a couple times by big promises. I learned to go with the sure thing and don't get caught taking that bird in the hand for granted. Remember, the grass on the other side of the fence may appear greener, but it may also be astro turf. Don't piss away a good situation on promises of things that may never materialize. Only take what is guaranteed.

[Izzle]

Originally Posted by FurnaceFace

What happens if none of it comes to pass?

Good call. If none of that comes to pass I'll be working till 65 anyways. I'd be getting a higher salary and I'm disciplined enough in my personal investments to ensure that I'd have a decent retirement.

With the pension, that additional mental accounting for retirement is largely taken care of.

[Izzle]

Originally Posted by New Era

Always consider that a sell job. I worked for a company that made similar promises and was going to let me retire at 45. Then the dotcom crash hit and me an 10,000 fiends were all out of work overnight. The story is long and ugly, but one I learned some good lessons from. Count on what is proven. The only guarantee they can provide you is the general benefits package they provide. Stock options and bonuses are black boxes and should not be counted on in your planning IMO. I count 401K/RRSP match programs in there as well as you assume all the risk and they can pull the rug out from under you during hard times and stop contributions (speaking from experience). The choice between a 401K/RRSP match is a no brainer. Pensions are much safer because they are usually collectively bargained for and usually protected, so they are a much more guaranteed thing.



You have a tough decision. I know which way I would go because I've been screwed over a couple times by big promises. I learned to go with the sure thing and don't get caught taking that bird in the hand for granted. Remember, the grass on the other side of the fence may appear greener, but it may also be astro turf. Don't piss away a good situation on promises of things that may never materialize. Only take what is guaranteed.

Thank you for your perspective. It is indeed a tough decision for me.

As it stands right now, their offer is lower than I expected. I'm going to ask them for something much higher and see what they say. I've mentally prepared for them to rescind the offer and I'm willing to walk away from it. Like you said, I do have that pension to fall back on.


This might be a stupid question, but, is there going to be resentment from the team if I asked for a higher pay and they said ok? "Look at this guy asking for a higher pay before even starting with us.... Who does he think he is?"

[FurnaceFace]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Add on, be very careful to make sure you're recruiter is not blind apply to a role that he or she doesn't have a contract to fill. A lot of recruiters will see an add on linkedin for example and just fire candidates with a blurb that they can help so they can maybe weasel in. If they don't have a signed contract for a role and blind submit you, you will be dead to the company and the recruiter doing the actual contract.


Remember that you're resume and reputation are attached to that recruiter.

Yep. Those ones are usually very easy to spot. They are often from recruiters who...aren’t local.

In both my recent interactions these are recruiters I’ve met personally and have known for years.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Izzle

Thank you for your perspective. It is indeed a tough decision for me.

As it stands right now, their offer is lower than I expected. I'm going to ask them for something much higher and see what they say. I've mentally prepared for them to rescind the offer and I'm willing to walk away from it. Like you said, I do have that pension to fall back on.


This might be a stupid question, but, is there going to be resentment from the team if I asked for a higher pay and they said ok? "Look at this guy asking for a higher pay before even starting with us.... Who does he think he is?"

There shouldn't be. This is a negotiation and just business.

[Weitz]

Originally Posted by Izzle

Thank you for your perspective. It is indeed a tough decision for me.

As it stands right now, their offer is lower than I expected. I'm going to ask them for something much higher and see what they say. I've mentally prepared for them to rescind the offer and I'm willing to walk away from it. Like you said, I do have that pension to fall back on.


This might be a stupid question, but, is there going to be resentment from the team if I asked for a higher pay and they said ok? "Look at this guy asking for a higher pay before even starting with us.... Who does he think he is?"

Is it normal for people to advertise how much they are making? Not sure how your coworkers would know. Your boss for sure, but others?

[Izzle]

Originally Posted by Weitz

Is it normal for people to advertise how much they are making? Not sure how your coworkers would know. Your boss for sure, but others?

Not really. But I suppose the manager would know how much they wanted to spend versus how much they actually gave out. Maybe that sort of resentment. Like I said, it was a stupid question.