unethical business experience *LONG READ*

[you&me]

Originally Posted by Sliver

Holy crap, guys. Keep in mind there are two sides to every story and we are hearing one side. Small business owners view bad reviews as aggressive attacks on what usually amounts to their biggest personal investment, their livelihood and often their life's work to which they're virtually defenseless.

They'll also have their own side of this story - one that includes addressing every issue OP had. I mean, dude was buying a used hot tub...what was the price? Were his expectations out of whack with the reality of buying an old tub? Did he opt for their $1k special, yet wanted $2k of work put into it to make it like new? I'd be curious to hear from the seller. Some red flags are going up here. Maybe they did some work on the tub to keep him happy even though it was costing them money, then he leaves a #### review, anyway (anything under a five star is ####, just so you know).

But yeah, after a #### review I don't blame the guy for cutting you off. I would reach out if I were the owner to find out what I could do to get that review gone, too. He'd be crazy not to. Here he may have spent decades building his business and op can launch a torpedo at it while taking a dump between chucking Animal Crackers and usb cables in his amazon basket.

Fata bad reviews. If you weren't totally happy, just fataing move on. No need to saddle a fellow Calgarian with that albatross for the rest of time. Accept you bought a used hot tub for cheap and that at least the guy supported it and addressed your concerns. Ffs

While I agree that there are always two sides to every story and it would be good to hear the other before passing absolute judgement, I think you're being far too generous with the latitude you're affording someone just because they're a small business owner.

I get the impression that you take your business seriously and likely offer great service (I don't know what you do, but you don't seem like the kind of guy to half-ass your business), so I think your perspective is skewed as coming from someone that would do something to legitimately deserve a bad review in the first place. But surely you must see other outfits in your industry and shake your head.

As with almost everything, there are few top performers, a huge swath of adequate or mediocre companies and then some that are totally inept. It's not unreasonable to think, based on the details shared, that the OP has encountered a company that occupies one of the bottom rungs of this industry.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

I think literally every post in here that is critical of the business, and taking the side of Flames_Gimp, is being made on the assumption that he's not bald-faced lying. I'm prepared to accept that he may be leaving out details that are favourable to the business owner, or leaving out details that make him look like a jerk, but I mean this is a pretty specific allegation:

Originally Posted by Flames_Gimp

An hour later i get an email from the secretary "see attached warranty contract that you signed" I read the attachment and it looks different, there's a paragraph that doesn't look familiar, i located my original signed paper contract and sure enough that paragraph wasn't there, they're trying to pull something.

The new paragraph says abusive behavior, including leaving a negative review will result in immediate cancellation of your warranty.

That's... absurd. If it's true, then your accurate-in-many-cases review about bad customer reviews is just out of place here. This goes well beyond bad customer service.

On a related note to your post, though, that is why I make an effort to leave a 5 star review for places I really like. Also, on the rare occasion that I do leave a bad google review for someone, I try to positively review somewhere else that I've been recently and enjoyed, but didn't bother to review (because usually you don't unless something goes wrong).

I can't agree, though, that "anything under a five star is ####". Most places have a Google reviews average somewhere in the vicinity of 4 stars - somewhere from 3.7 to 4.3. A 4 star review makes far less difference than a 1 star review. I don't know if anyone has done any research on this, but I suspect that most people reading reviews when choosing where to do business pay attention to a) the average rating and b) the non-1-star reviews, which are generally just silly whining and can be safely ignored.

[undercoverbrother]

nm

[Shazam]

OP: Did you pay with a credit card? If so, do a goddamned chargeback. Stop writing stuff on the internet and do a chargeback.

If you didn't, you're basically SOL.

In the future: Pay with a credit card.

[BlackArcher101]

How would a chargeback be successful? He's received the product he's ordered.... CC company won't care about a doctored document. The product is all that matters.

[Shazam]

Originally Posted by BlackArcher101

How would a chargeback be successful? He's received the product he's ordered....

He didn't receive the product he was expecting.

At the very least, he should ask right?

[BlackArcher101]

Originally Posted by Shazam

He didn't receive the product he was expecting.

It was made good was it not?

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by you&me

While I agree that there are always two sides to every story and it would be good to hear the other before passing absolute judgement, I think you're being far too generous with the latitude you're affording someone just because they're a small business owner.

I get the impression that you take your business seriously and likely offer great service (I don't know what you do, but you don't seem like the kind of guy to half-ass your business), so I think your perspective is skewed as coming from someone that would do something to legitimately deserve a bad review in the first place. But surely you must see other outfits in your industry and shake your head.

As with almost everything, there are few top performers, a huge swath of adequate or mediocre companies and then some that are totally inept. It's not unreasonable to think, based on the details shared, that the OP has encountered a company that occupies one of the bottom rungs of this industry.

Yeah, I concede that for sure, but right out of the gates I'm thinking, dude's buying a used hot tub. There are new ones at Costco for $4500. Not crazy expensive, really. So if you're buying used, you're getting something somebody else didn't want. What are you going to pay for that? Less than half for sure. Maybe more like 30% of the price of new? Well, you can expect some problems. When I buy a used car, I don't give the dealership a bad review because it needs new wiper blades, there is dirt under the floor mats, and I have to replace a few trim pieces that aren't up to snuff. I also have an attitude like, hey, I bought a used thing and I am not expecting perfection.

Sounds like the tub arrived, but needed some extra TLC from the company. They gave that to him.

Maybe he even did sign a contract, but with a small company like a fataing used hot tub store, it's likely just a boilerplate thing and maybe the spirit of the deal was more about yeah, you can take that one, but we have better ones if you up your budget a bit. Nah, OP wanted the cheap one. Well guess what, you get what you pay for. You bought an old, dirty, used hot tub, but were perhaps expecting something of new quality and condition? I mean, didn't you see this thing first?

But anyway, you weren't happy with what you received, so they fixed it all.

Then you decided to damage their business. Fata that. It's a sledgehammer response against a defenseless victim.

Iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiffffffffffffffffff everything OP said is right and this is just some greasy scoundrel trying to scam him by....fixing all the issues OP complained about????.........then okay, write your review if you feel like damaging his business. The other option is to not damage his business since he gave you everything you asked for even if you had to follow up with a couple calls to get it just right. Yeah, welcome to life. That happens sometimes. You don't need to actively steer people away from this guy's business over that.

Anyway, I look at Gimp's other post where he hired some hack to drywall his addition and then is asking us if it's a problem. Like, maybe quit paying for the lowest-tier/quality service/goods and then being dissatisfied with the substandard results.

I'm going to write a review on my used VW Golf and complain that it isn't as good as a new Audi and that I had to take it back for service. Imagine that, a used, cheap mechanical thing needing service. ThReE sTaRs FoR yOu!

[Shazam]

Originally Posted by BlackArcher101

It was made good was it not?

Well then, it's now whining on the internet. Everybody's favourite hobby.

BBB won't help. I'd go nuclear.

[Shazam]

Originally Posted by Sliver

Yeah, I concede that for sure, but right out of the gates I'm thinking, dude's buying a used hot tub. There are new ones at Costco for $4500. Not crazy expensive, really. So if you're buying used, you're getting something somebody else didn't want. What are you going to pay for that? Less than half for sure. Maybe more like 30% of the price of new? Well, you can expect some problems. When I buy a used car, I don't give the dealership a bad review because it needs new wiper blades, there is dirt under the floor mats, and I have to replace a few trim pieces that aren't up to snuff. I also have an attitude like, hey, I bought a used thing and I am not expecting perfection.

Sounds like the tub arrived, but needed some extra TLC from the company. They gave that to him.

Maybe he even did sign a contract, but with a small company like a fataing used hot tub store, it's likely just a boilerplate thing and maybe the spirit of the deal was more about yeah, you can take that one, but we have better ones if you up your budget a bit. Nah, OP wanted the cheap one. Well guess what, you get what you pay for. You bought an old, dirty, used hot tub, but were perhaps expecting something of new quality and condition? I mean, didn't you see this thing first?

But anyway, you weren't happy with what you received, so they fixed it all.

Then you decided to damage their business. Fata that. It's a sledgehammer response against a defenseless victim.

Iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiffffffffffffffffff everything OP said is right and this is just some greasy scoundrel trying to scam him by....fixing all the issues OP complained about????.........then okay, write your review if you feel like damaging his business. The other option is to not damage his business since he gave you everything you asked for even if you had to follow up with a couple calls to get it just right. Yeah, welcome to life. That happens sometimes. You don't need to actively steer people away from this guy's business over that.

Anyway, I look at Gimp's other post where he hired some hack to drywall his addition and then is asking us if it's a problem. Like, maybe quit paying for the lowest-tier/quality service/goods and then being dissatisfied with the substandard results.

I'm going to write a review on my used VW Golf and complain that it isn't as good as a new Audi and that I had to take it back for service. Imagine that, a used, cheap mechanical thing needing service. ThReE sTaRs FoR yOu!

Company was being an a-hole. FG didn't do anything wrong.

Yeah, buying a used hot tub sucks. Might as well buy a used bathtub.

[CaptainCrunch]

I am onboard with others, I doubt the chargeback is going to work. It sounds like the company did make right with the product.



I also agree that the company isn't acting right in threatening to pull a warranty because of a bad review, but I doubt that the credit card company will do a chargeback based on that.


I'm kinda torn on this one. Now I just read this briefly but it does sound like the company did try to make right.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Despite having an obvious bias, Sliver is right. Positive reviews are a lot more rare than negative ones in almost every situation, so online you usually end up with the perception that a business you’ll have a totally fine experience with 99/100 times is actually more like 50/50 because of review skewing.

And Sliver is also right that there is certainly an entirely different side to this story that paints a completely different picture, and the truth is likely somewhere in the middle.

This is all pretty ridiculous.

The entire idea that every story has more layers and must lie somewhere in the middle is asinine.

Sometimes businesses just suck. Just because you assume everyone is a liar, doesn’t mean they are. It’s a weird premise to even operate under.


I also see most google reviews for almost all businesses are positive. What the negative ones usually are is more detailed. 5 star reviews are usually lacking in details and a thorough description. It’s also easy to tell negative reviews from crazy people. And most often the business owner responds and clears it up.

There’s nothing wrong with negative reviews.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

This is all pretty ridiculous.

The entire idea that every story has more layers and must lie somewhere in the middle is asinine.

Sometimes businesses just suck. Just because you assume everyone is a liar, doesn’t mean they are. It’s a weird premise to even operate under.

Perhaps you are right.

But you can agree we have only heard 1 side of this story.

[Shazam]

Yeah what I don't get is the business can reply to the review and say:

"We're sorry for your experience. We did all the repairs and other remediation actions as requested in a prompt manner. We hope we can service you in the future."

Most reasonable people understand that people make mistakes. And you don't want to deal with the unreasonable people.

I mean it's great and all that some of you think "THE TOOTH!" has yet to be revealed, but the fact of the matter is the review is there, companies cannot remove Google reviews unless there's like nutty #### in it. Best they can do is reply in a professional manner.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by Shazam

Yeah what I don't get is the business can reply to the review and say:

"We're sorry for your experience. We did all the repairs and other remediation actions as requested in a prompt manner. We hope we can service you in the future."

Most reasonable people understand that people make mistakes. And you don't want to deal with the unreasonable people.

I mean it's great and all that some of you think "THE TOOTH!" has yet to be revealed, but the fact of the matter is the review is there, companies cannot remove Google reviews unless there's like nutty #### in it. Best they can do is reply in a professional manner.

Because they're still left with the bad review, the drag on their star rating and reviews are totally unmoderated. Plus, it's there forever with no expiration date and no way to move on past it. It's understandable for a company to be annoyed with bad reviews when they're unjust.

We don't know if this review is just. What we do know is FG ended up with exactly what he paid for and left them a bad review anyway. That would piss anybody off.

[PaperBagger'14]

Originally Posted by Sliver

Because they're still left with the bad review, the drag on their star rating and reviews are totally unmoderated. Plus, it's there forever with no expiration date and no way to move on past it. It's understandable for a company to be annoyed with bad reviews when they're unjust.

We don't know if this review is just. What we do know is FG ended up with exactly what he paid for and left them a bad review anyway. That would piss anybody off.

And if the owner did swear and yell at him on the phone, in addition to the doctored contract, I'd be keeping the review up unless I got an apology.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

This is all pretty ridiculous.

The entire idea that every story has more layers and must lie somewhere in the middle is asinine.

Sometimes businesses just suck. Just because you assume everyone is a liar, doesn’t mean they are. It’s a weird premise to even operate under.


I also see most google reviews for almost all businesses are positive. What the negative ones usually are is more detailed. 5 star reviews are usually lacking in details and a thorough description. It’s also easy to tell negative reviews from crazy people. And most often the business owner responds and clears it up.

There’s nothing wrong with negative reviews.

That also has something to do with paying for reviews.

Sometimes businesses do just suck, but it's pretty difficult to run a good business for any length of time. A bad business surviving more than a little bit in a market with healthy competition is nearly impossible.

It's also not about people being a liar. People recieve and interpret things in different ways. How you view a situation might be different than how I view it. Doesn't mean either of us are lying. I mean, it's obvious you interpreted my post differently than I wrote it... so are you a liar? No. That's just the way things go.

If it were a matter of an objective view of a situation, sure. But we're literally just hearing one story from one individual. There's going to be some interpretations and assumptions there. That's life.

[Shazam]

Originally Posted by Sliver

Because they're still left with the bad review, the drag on their star rating and reviews are totally unmoderated. Plus, it's there forever with no expiration date and no way to move on past it. It's understandable for a company to be annoyed with bad reviews when they're unjust.

We don't know if this review is just. What we do know is FG ended up with exactly what he paid for and left them a bad review anyway. That would piss anybody off.

Yeah I'm sorry, there's no justification for yelling at a customer, unless they're deaf.

Like I'm not sure you've ever used Google before, but virtually everybody has bad reviews.

[ResAlien]

Quite a customer service mentality. You got what you paid for finally after fighting tooth and nail to get my lame company to fulfill our side of the transaction which you already paid for. We then called you, swore at you, doctored a contract, and threatened punitive measures outside of the contract if you didn’t bend to our will.

Why the bad review? It just doesn’t make any sense. Golly FG just give them five stars and move on because that’s just how business is handled nowadays.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by Sliver

What we do know is FG ended up with exactly what he paid for and left them a bad review anyway. That would piss anybody off.

No, he paid for a clean hot tub that doesn't leak and had a certain electrical rating, and he got none of those. The business had to come and fix the things they said he would get to begin with. They don't get points for failing to deliver the contracted-for goods and then coming out to subsequently remedy their failure to deliver what was promised from the start.

I mean, we don't really know any of that either, realistically. Maybe he asked the owner if it had any leaks and they said "not as far as I'm aware, we got it back refurbished from the manufacturer and they're supposed to fix all of that". Maybe they agreed to clean it before delivering it to him and it was an honest mistake that that got missed. Maybe someone gave the business the wrong information on amperage and because it's not part of their usual stock they just went with what they were told.

But if, as he says, they agreed to provide a warranty on certain terms, and then tried to represent a new and different warranty document as the one he signed, there's really no way around that part.