Arena negotiation discussion. UPD: Flames release their proposal

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

Easy, the 1988 Winter Olympics. It beats anything the Flames have done by a fair margin. Hell, I'd almost say that the Stampede has done more for the image of Calgary than the Flames.


I'm not sure if it's just because I'm getting older, but sports are meaning less and less to me all the time. Perhaps it's the overt focus on the business and financial aspect of any franchise that gets discussed ad nauseam around any player or personnel decision. It's too close to a work reality, where tough decisions are made and things generally suck for the individual to maintain the strength of the company. It's palatable to a degree because there's a certain inescapable reality to it that must be at least considered, but I follow sports because I want to escape that reality and cheer for some athletic heroes for a couple hours in my evening. All of that is overshadowed by "playing up to his contract", or being an "overpaid and declining asset" that is so pervasive in the thought process now.

So all of that has been forced into something that I used to take pure and unadulterated joy in, a hockey game. Simple, yet inspiring.

But now....now I have to sit here and listen to this petty squabbling by high end executive millionaire who represent absentee billionaires, telling me it's a goddam privilege to have my childhood heroes continue to play in the city I was raised in, so we better be okay with ponying up the money, or else. It's too much. I refuse to let my happy memories be held ransom just so billionaires don't have to invest as much of their own money into something that will continue to make them incredibly wealthy. You know, the way every other ####ing business works.

This is the new norm. At a certain point, having professional sports as an entertainment option isn't worth all this other negative bull#### that comes along with it. We are now at the point where the games themselves are a distraction from the real stories of financing and salary cap management, rather than have the sport be the focal point.

This is just all so ugly, and I don't think I can forgive the Flames executive group for letting it get this far.



Just how bad is it when the Panthers, one of the worst run franchises in the league who have also had issues relating to the locals in regards to value of arena deals, look laudable in comparison to the Flames?

[IgiTang]

Not trying to nitpick or disrupt the discussion but can someone tell me what page or post the actual latest news is on? My last page viewed was page 8.. I don't want to go through 50 pages to find out what is up and who is saying what..

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by IgiTang

Not trying to nitpick or disrupt the discussion but can someone tell me what page or post the actual latest news is on? My last page viewed was page 8.. I don't want to go through 50 pages to find out what is up and who is saying what..

Try searching SureLoss posts in this thread.

[IgiTang]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Try searching SureLoss posts in this thread.

Ahh, good tip. Thanks!

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by Stay Golden

The Calgary Flames should remind Nenshi when they have their presser the construction of Rogers arena supported 5135 jobs.

Do you think the City of Calgary's economy would benefit from a project of that scale.
Nenshi has too many people fooled. The trickle down economics of 5135 jobs and hundreds of companies involved you can trust the city benifts 10 fold well beyond this.

https://www.google.ca/amp/globalnews...ening-day/amp/

Except that it takes 3 Edmontonians to do the job 1 Calgarian can do, so the number wouldn't be that high.

[JFK]

Originally Posted by Manhattanboy

Oh please.

"His Worship" is his mayoral title, I'm sorry if you can't deal with that.

[Stay Golden]

Originally Posted by topfiverecords

Except that it takes 3 Edmontonians to do the job 1 Calgarian can do, so the number wouldn't be that high.

Well said

[Par]

Originally Posted by Dion

Problem for me is where would the Flames go and would that market have greater fan support. Seattle is a basketball city and fans would flock to see their Sonics before they shell out out bucks to see the Flames. Then you have multiple American teams that are struggling to fill their arenas and make a profit.

If the Flames were going to move they would have done it long ago. That's my belief. Frankly I think the owners know they have a great hockey market in Calgary and will do whatever it takes to make a deal and it will get done.

I believe the Flames needed revenue sharing at one point(I read this some where), so I don't think that Calgary is a great hockey market but it is a good one.

I don't think the Flames will move but if they do move it might be to Houston.

[Flacker]

Yeah, the ticket tax as Flames revenue doesn't sit right with me. That is a tax, that is the money of users, which goes directly to paying down the debt. This new arena wouldn't be exclusively for hockey and lacrosse, when a concert, rodeo, etc is filling the building, how is that Flames revenue?

I'm not a fan of Ken King, he is a terrible pr man for a project like this.

[Chingas]

I am pissed at the flames for taking the thing I love and making it dirty. Putting a dark cloud over the beginning of the season after I was so excited and looking forward to the start of the season.

I wonder if the flames could take the stamps, roughnecks and hitmen with them to their new city with greener pastures? They need this city every bit as much as we need them. If they were to ever move I would hope that the fans of their other three ventures would have the fortitude to make them pay for their greed.

[stamps]

Originally Posted by Flacker

Yeah, the ticket tax as Flames revenue doesn't sit right with me. That is a tax, that is the money of users, which goes directly to paying down the debt. This new arena wouldn't be exclusively for hockey and lacrosse, when a concert, rodeo, etc is filling the building, how is that Flames revenue?

I'm not a fan of Ken King, he is a terrible pr man for a project like this.

As a season ticket holder I have no problem paying a ticket tax to help pay for a new building ... I think even if there wasn't a ticket tax the price of the ticket would be the same , so in essence the Flames are giving up revenue to pay for the new arena and that tax should be credited towards the Flames portion ... In the end we get a new rink helped paid for by my ticket tax (user fee if you will ) ... the city sure as $hite are not going to get any credit for it in my world ...

[Samonadreau]

Ticket tax.....is......wait for it........that's right...... paid by the Fanbase! Paid...... by....... THE FANS.
1/3 City
1/3 Flames
1/3.....FANS.

Go ahead and whine about having to pay property taxes but DON'T tell me the 1/3 paid by ticket tax is not in any shape or form being paid by the Fans.

Also cant beleive how bad KK struggles at getting his point across without completely getting egg all over his face. Brutal figurehead for a franchise.

[Samonadreau]

Originally Posted by stamps

As a season ticket holder I have no problem paying a ticket tax to help pay for a new building ... I think even if there wasn't a ticket tax the price of the ticket would be the same , so in essence the Flames are giving up revenue to pay for the new arena and that tax should be credited towards the Flames portion ... In the end we get a new rink helped paid for by my ticket tax (user fee if you will ) ... the city sure as $hite are not going to get any credit for it in my world ...

I doubt it. They would normally add 4 to 6%. And on top of that there would be another 8 to 10% tacked on. Thats what happenned up north. They tell you any different and they are lying. So the extra 8 to 10% would not have been revenue anyways.

And the city isnt taking credit for it.

[stamps]

Originally Posted by Samonadreau

Ticket tax.....is......wait for it........that's right...... paid by the Fanbase! Paid...... by....... THE FANS.
1/3 City
1/3 Flames
1/3.....FANS.

Go ahead and whine about having to pay property taxes but DON'T tell me the 1/3 paid by ticket tax is not in any shape or form being paid by the Fans.

Also cant beleive how bad KK struggles at getting his point across without completely getting egg all over his face. Brutal figurehead for a franchise.

It's revenue they are giving up that they could be keeping for themselves to help run their business ... so however you want to label it that is revenue from the Flames ... maybe a solution could be that the city gets into the business of owning and running an NHL team and sports entertainment corp ...

[stamps]

Originally Posted by Samonadreau

I doubt it. They would normally add 4 to 6%. And on top of that there would be another 8 to 10% tacked on. Thats what happenned up north. They tell you any different and they are lying. So the extra 8 to 10% would not have been revenue anyways.

And the city isnt taking credit for it.

They will charge as much as the market will pay , and that would be with or without a ticket tax , if you think differently you are kidding yourself ...

[Dion]

Originally Posted by stamps

It's revenue they are giving up that they could be keeping for themselves to help run their business ... so however you want to label it that is revenue from the Flames ... maybe a solution could be that the city gets into the business of owning and running an NHL team and sports entertainment corp ...

Are you suggesting that the Flames have always had a ticket surcharge tax?

[stamps]

Originally Posted by Dion

Are you suggesting that the Flames have always had a ticket surcharge tax?

I'm suggesting the Flames have charged as much for a ticket as the public would be willing to pay ... that is a fact ...

[Dion]

Originally Posted by stamps

I'm suggesting the Flames have charged as much for a ticket as the public would be willing to pay ... that is a fact ...

Fans have yet to pay a ticket surcharge and we don't know if they would accept one on top of their ticket price. Yet some would call it lost revenue? You lost me.

[stamps]

Originally Posted by Dion

Fans have yet to pay a ticket surcharge and we don't know if they would accept one on top of their ticket price. Yet some would call it lost revenue? You lost me.

Currently a portion of your ticket price goes to the Saddledome Foundation ... and the Flames , along with every NHL , NFL , CFL and NBA team will and do maximize the price their market will pay for a ticket ... if it includes any kind of tax or surcharge it is factored into that maximum price ....

[FireGilbert]

Once again King comes off as arrogant and out of touch. I know he is just a voice for the owners but as this stage they are losing the PR battle and need a new voice.

I have a couple questions about his statements:

He mentioned the city would get their money back from property taxes on new developments around the building. Wouldn't most of these new developments have gone ahead anyways just in another part of the city and any additional taxes generated be close to negligible compared to the arena costs?

He also mentions the ticket tax is a Flames contribution. If it is money the team would be charging anyways and not an additional user fee doesn't that make it hockey related revenue? Could the NHLPA have a problem with this?