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Old 09-21-2017, 04:19 PM   #2021
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The thing that gets me is why would someone be so invested in how much money the flames can make? If every game you watch is on television,does it matter if they are even in Calgary?
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Old 09-21-2017, 04:20 PM   #2022
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Originally Posted by RM14 View Post
just a random number. I doubt there are any individuals getting the shaft personally. If the city were to straight contribute non-recoverable cash (which they aren't). Some number crunching:

* Total 2016 City of Calgary Revenue: $4,700,000,000
* 450,000 households X $3,000 each per year = $1,350,000,000 (29% of city Revenue)
*City Expense for Arena funding: $250,000,000 X 29% = $72,500,000 to Households. Or, $161 per house.
*$161 cash upfront / 30 years - about $5 per year per house.
That might be true but it's not the cost per house, it's the fact that if they want to raise my ppt taxes by 5 bucks I'd rather they built a school, or a park, or a ctrain line or pretty much anything else I can use for free or with a minor fee.

Look at people freaking out about the ring or bowfort that costs less money than I bet most people would bend down to pick up on the LRT.
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Old 09-21-2017, 04:23 PM   #2023
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1. Just because someone makes a lot of money in one industry, does not make them an expert in another. Nor does it make them some sort of deity whose altar we should grovel at.
The notion that the elected representative of 1.2 million people should back down from a billionaire because the billionaire has proven more successful at acquiring piles and piles of cash is so weird. I honestly can't fathom why some people admire big dogs so much that they want them to win against their own representative.
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Old 09-21-2017, 04:23 PM   #2024
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Not a surprise, but there was no basis for funding. So Nenshi was running on a completely unfunded arena? Or was Nenshi running on an entirely publicly funded arena? What was his plan? Is he just assuming someone is going to privately fund it? Or does he have a partner who is onboard with his proposed funding model?
Why are you saying that he's running on this arena? He's not. It's a tentative part of the plan for an build out of that area which is already well underway. It's the Flames that wanted to make this an election issue, and they've done so, I just don't think they're going to get the result they thought they would.
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Old 09-21-2017, 04:28 PM   #2025
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Oh my god conservatives are some of the most overwhelmingly stupid people, especially when they want to go into further debt so that we can finance an arena.

The Flames aren't going to move because they will lose money hand over fist wherever else they go. If that isn't obvious based on the performance of 2/3rds of the teams in the league then I don't know what is.
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I don't put Murray Edwards on a pedestal, but he is an extremely successful business man, who is not going to launch a money losing business venture. Which unfortunately, this is. If that means moving the team to make it profitable, so be it. At the end of the day it is a business, and you cannot expect the owner to sign up to lose money.
Call it semantics but why is there always this assumed conflation that the team moving means the owners are going to move with it? The thing about these relocation/expansion cities, they're candidates because they already have their own local groups who are going to want to control the franchise themselves. They're no more interested in taking on Edwards than TNSE was interested in taking on Atlanta Spirit.

They're not going to move the team to make it profitable or risk a lack of profitability because it'll be an irrelevant point; they're just going to sell the team and bank their money before it turns into a loss, exactly like what happened in QC. Maybe they'll trade Flames ownership for an AHL team or just make do with the Stamps/Hitmen/Roughnecks. Either way, whether or not the team does financially worse or better elsewhere is going to be completely irrelevant to the (former) owners at that point. All that counts is the sale price.
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Old 09-21-2017, 04:29 PM   #2026
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I realise that. I am referencing Nenshi vs. King/Edwards.

This thing is all about ego's now. And unfortunately reclusive billionaire types aren't going to give a small timer like Nenshi the time of day if he's going to posture/berate and talk down to the way he has been. Nenshi's tune changed once the relocation/pull out of negotiation threats started and he was afraid it would cost him votes.

Unfortunately Ken King is now forced to deliver the bad news and look like the bad guy in this.

Both sides suck, but Nenshi was the the antagonist. I wouldn't negotiate with him either.
It's not about ego. It's not about the people making the public statements. It's about two sides trying to sway public opinion.

Face it, we live in a sound bite world. Most people in the City will look at the pie graphs rather than a 10 page document outlining the proposals.

Stop reducing the multi-millionaire dollar negotiation down to two guys. It's all a show to (a) keep talking about it; and (b) pick a side.


BUT-how is the city being the antogonist? CSES says we tried, but the city doesnt want to work with us. What do you expect the city to do? not release their entirely fair proposal to show the city they are representing their interests in a balance matter?

give me a break.
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Old 09-21-2017, 04:30 PM   #2027
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Originally Posted by CampbellsTransgressions View Post
Oh my god conservatives are some of the most overwhelmingly stupid people, especially when they want to go into further debt so that we can finance an arena.

The Flames aren't going to move because they will lose money hand over fist wherever else they go. If that isn't obvious based on the performance of 2/3rds of the teams in the league then I don't know what is.
Seriously not necessary at all.
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Old 09-21-2017, 04:31 PM   #2028
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Is this a serious post? What does his salary have to do with this?

We all know everything about you and we didn't even have to ask. We know how much you make and all the cars and disposable income you have and Nenshi Is the one with an ego?

This is a really embrassing post.
Very embrassing indeed.

What's actually embarrassing are the dog pilers who deem fit to brand any post even remotely critical of Nenshi as embarrassing.
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Old 09-21-2017, 04:32 PM   #2029
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Has anyone bothered to do the math on how much a new arena will actually cost each tax payer? When the public hears hundreds of millions will be spent, that obviously doesn't sound too good. But when you divide the total by every tax payer, what's the actual cost to each individual? if someone with the knowledge can find that out, I think that might open some eyes here.
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Old 09-21-2017, 04:32 PM   #2030
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Sure, it's only $10 bucks a month for me, but it's 275M dollars of public money no longer available to be allocated to public spending on things like roads and infrastructure and basically anything else that anyone can use and don't have to pay for entry at(generally), all so that the Calgary flames can sell more luxury suites

No thanks
I agree. The taxpayers paid 34 cents for the giant blue ring and look at the vitriol that gets.

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Old 09-21-2017, 04:33 PM   #2031
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Does anybody have a breakdown on the ownership of the Flames - apart from Edwards it looks like the rest of the group is native Calgarians. What percentage of the team does Edwards have?
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Old 09-21-2017, 04:36 PM   #2032
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Anyone know when the Flames lease of the Saddledome expires?
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Old 09-21-2017, 04:52 PM   #2033
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So you're just bitching about Nenshi for fun now conveniently ignoring the fact that it was the Flames who started this off on the wrong foot from the beginning?

The beloved Flames who made a play to try and appeal to public emotion and had it blow up in their faces? They're the victims of poor treatment now?

What a joke.
No it wasn't the Flames, holy crap! OMG
The city/Nenshi started it off by having a presser talking about the Flames inclusion in their plans for a Entertainment district.
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Old 09-21-2017, 04:52 PM   #2034
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Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper View Post
Has anyone bothered to do the math on how much a new arena will actually cost each tax payer? When the public hears hundreds of millions will be spent, that obviously doesn't sound too good. But when you divide the total by every tax payer, what's the actual cost to each individual? if someone with the knowledge can find that out, I think that might open some eyes here.
On the last page, my very hack attempt at trying to find out the cost per "taxpayer"


* Total 2016 City of Calgary Revenue: $4,700,000,000
* 450,000 households X $3,000 each per year = $1,350,000,000 (29% of city Revenue)
*City Expense for Arena funding: $250,000,000 X 29% = $72,500,000 to Households. Or, $161 per house.
*$161 cash upfront / 30 years - about $5 per year per house.
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Old 09-21-2017, 04:53 PM   #2035
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No it wasn't the Flames, holy crap! OMG
The city/Nenshi started it off by having a presser which talking about the Flames inclusion in their plans for a Entertainment district.
I guess that's true, if you think this process started last week.
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Old 09-21-2017, 04:54 PM   #2036
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Why are you saying that he's running on this arena? He's not. It's a tentative part of the plan for an build out of that area which is already well underway. It's the Flames that wanted to make this an election issue, and they've done so, I just don't think they're going to get the result they thought they would.


It’s in his vision for the East Village. He calls it out in his proposal.
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Old 09-21-2017, 04:58 PM   #2037
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It’s in his vision for the East Village. He calls it out in his proposal.
ok.

I'm not sure what your point even is at this point. You suggested that the Vic Park arena idea was comparable to the Flames dropping CalgaryNEXT out of the blue when the Vic Park plan was discussed years ago. That is a poor comparison. Also, apparently, having a plan for an arena in the are is "running on an arena". Again, it's the Flames that wanted this to be an election issue. They got their wish.
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Old 09-21-2017, 05:08 PM   #2038
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In the US I know lots of stadiums are paid partially on hotel and rental car taxes. Is this something that is possible or legal in Canada as a source to fund stadiums? I never hear of it being explored here.
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Old 09-21-2017, 05:09 PM   #2039
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Oh my god conservatives are some of the most overwhelmingly stupid people, especially when they want to go into further debt so that we can finance an arena.

The Flames aren't going to move because they will lose money hand over fist wherever else they go. If that isn't obvious based on the performance of 2/3rds of the teams in the league then I don't know what is.
There not conservatives then. They are populists.
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Old 09-21-2017, 05:09 PM   #2040
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ok.



I'm not sure what your point even is at this point. You suggested that the Vic Park arena idea was comparable to the Flames dropping CalgaryNEXT out of the blue when the Vic Park plan was discussed years ago. That is a poor comparison. Also, apparently, having a plan for an arena in the are is "running on an arena". Again, it's the Flames that wanted this to be an election issue. They got their wish.


What? I’m not talking about NEXT.

I’m saying that he disingenuously included an arena in his bid for re-election. He has no funding in place, no funding partner in place. It’s the ultimate politician fluff. “Look at this, if I’m re-elected here’s my vision...completely unfunded”.
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