Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community
Old 05-09-2019, 12:57 PM   #121
TheScorpion
First round-bust
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Calgary/Ottawa
Exp:
Default

This Flames team has a ton of talent. It's just all about finding the right mix. That's why it's important to remember that there's always next year. Maybe this summer they go out and sign a couple cheap vet top-9 forwards with playoff pedigree and it totally changes the dynamic of the team.

As Phil Horace said in Tom Hanks' That Thing You Do!, "A good [team] is like a stew. All the pieces have to come together just right... otherwise, it's just soup."

I'd like to see the Flames go after some versatile utility guys with playoff experience in UFA. Avoid the real expensive guys unless Duchene is interested. They should pursue the Hagelins and Brassards of the market who will probably go for 1-2 years at about $1.5-2 million a season. Just try to give the lineup more looks and more experience without breaking the bank.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kybb79 View Post
TO will never trade Kadri.
TheScorpion is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to TheScorpion For This Useful Post:
Old 05-09-2019, 02:22 PM   #122
SuperMatt18
Franchise Player
 
SuperMatt18's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Calgary, AB
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheScorpion View Post
This Flames team has a ton of talent. It's just all about finding the right mix. That's why it's important to remember that there's always next year. Maybe this summer they go out and sign a couple cheap vet top-9 forwards with playoff pedigree and it totally changes the dynamic of the team.
That's 100% it.

The team has talent - it just needs a bit more speed and tenacity for the playoffs.

And the NHL playoffs are pretty unpredictable year to year. Look at the final four from the last couple years and how they finished the prior year.

2019 Final Four: San Jose (second round), St.Louis (missed playoffs), Boston (second round), Carolina (missed playoffs)

2018 Final Four: Tampa Bay (missed playoffs), Washington (round 2), Winnipeg (missed playoffs), Vegas (Didn't exist)

2017 Final Four: Ottawa (Missed playoffs), Pittsburgh (won cup), Nashville (Round 2), Anaheim (Round 1)

2016 Final Four: St.Louis (Round 1), San Jose (Missed Playoffs), Tampa Bay (Cup Finals), Pittsburgh (Round 1)

The teams that will be in the final four next year are more likely to have been teams that missed the playoffs, or had playoff failures this year, than they are teams that are still playing in the final 4.

Playoff success is rarely a linear path in the NHL. Best bet is to build a top regular season team and give yourself a shot in the playoffs each year.
SuperMatt18 is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 8 Users Say Thank You to SuperMatt18 For This Useful Post:
Old 05-16-2019, 03:00 PM   #123
Flames Draft Watcher
Franchise Player
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dissentowner View Post
What do you want him to do at 5'6 and 140lbs with his equipment on? He is a skill player, they shy away from contact. If you watched the Jets you saw Ehlers shy away from contact. William Nylander, same thing. Gaudreau is not Theo Fleury.
Why canít he be Fleury? Fleury was not taller. Fleury was stronger yes, thatís on Gaudreau. Fleury was feistier and more physical, thatís on Gaudreau.

Heck even on the same team we have Mangiapane who is a little bigger than Gaudreau but fights through checking and goes to the hard areas to battle along the boards and in front of the net unlike Gaudreau.

Gaudreau is an amazing talent but the way some of you excuse and apologize for his soft play bewilders me.

Gaudreau and Monahan have to be better if we want to be a playoff threat. If they donít have the drive, desire or toughness to do it then maybe they arenít the guys to build around.
Flames Draft Watcher is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 8 Users Say Thank You to Flames Draft Watcher For This Useful Post:
Old 05-16-2019, 03:58 PM   #124
kukkudo
First Line Centre
 
kukkudo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher View Post
Why canít he be Fleury? Fleury was not taller. Fleury was stronger yes, thatís on Gaudreau. Fleury was feistier and more physical, thatís on Gaudreau.

Heck even on the same team we have Mangiapane who is a little bigger than Gaudreau but fights through checking and goes to the hard areas to battle along the boards and in front of the net unlike Gaudreau.

Gaudreau is an amazing talent but the way some of you excuse and apologize for his soft play bewilders me.

Gaudreau and Monahan have to be better if we want to be a playoff threat. If they donít have the drive, desire or toughness to do it then maybe they arenít the guys to build around.
I agree with you but at this stage I don't see Gaudreau or Monahan upping there physicality level. They are what they are.
kukkudo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-2019, 04:29 PM   #125
DeluxeMoustache
 
DeluxeMoustache's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher View Post
Why canít he be Fleury? Fleury was not taller. Fleury was stronger yes, thatís on Gaudreau. Fleury was feistier and more physical, thatís on Gaudreau.

Heck even on the same team we have Mangiapane who is a little bigger than Gaudreau but fights through checking and goes to the hard areas to battle along the boards and in front of the net unlike Gaudreau.

Gaudreau is an amazing talent but the way some of you excuse and apologize for his soft play bewilders me.

Gaudreau and Monahan have to be better if we want to be a playoff threat. If they donít have the drive, desire or toughness to do it then maybe they arenít the guys to build around.

We want Gaudreau to be a physical player now?

How is Gaudreau not being as strong as Fleury on Gaudreau? People have different physiques and genetics. If Gaudreau is shifty enough to avoid contact, why wear himself down trying to fight through it?

It was the predictability of his play (high buttonhook) and speed of team decision making down the stretch against Colorado that killed the team

I think you have to look at why the team was easy to defend against, and Johnnyís game is being shifty and having teammates quickly finding open ice. Not muscling through guys 40 pounds heavier than him
DeluxeMoustache is online now   Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to DeluxeMoustache For This Useful Post:
Old 05-16-2019, 04:40 PM   #126
SportsJunky
Uncle Chester
 
SportsJunky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Exp:
Default

Why can’t he be Fleury? Really? Why can’t Kurri be Messier? People are wired differently.
__________________
Be better.
SportsJunky is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to SportsJunky For This Useful Post:
Old 05-16-2019, 05:21 PM   #127
JJolg
Backup Goalie
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache View Post
We want Gaudreau to be a physical player now?

How is Gaudreau not being as strong as Fleury on Gaudreau? People have different physiques and genetics. If Gaudreau is shifty enough to avoid contact, why wear himself down trying to fight through it?

It was the predictability of his play (high buttonhook) and speed of team decision making down the stretch against Colorado that killed the team

I think you have to look at why the team was easy to defend against, and Johnnyís game is being shifty and having teammates quickly finding open ice. Not muscling through guys 40 pounds heavier than him
The problem is everything you described IS playoff hockey, you need to muscle through that contact and no shy away from it or you will be ineffective. There are plenty of skill players than changed there game to enable themselves to play in that environment, Johnny will have to learn that and to stop wishing and barking for penalties. This time of year taking the hit to make the play can be the difference, you need everyone to be willing to do that bailing on the play and throwing the puck away isn't going to do much for the teammates that lay it on the line every shift.
JJolg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-2019, 05:31 PM   #128
Mr.Coffee
damn onions
 
Mr.Coffee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperMatt18 View Post
That's 100% it.

The team has talent - it just needs a bit more speed and tenacity for the playoffs.

And the NHL playoffs are pretty unpredictable year to year. Look at the final four from the last couple years and how they finished the prior year.

2019 Final Four: San Jose (second round), St.Louis (missed playoffs), Boston (second round), Carolina (missed playoffs)

2018 Final Four: Tampa Bay (missed playoffs), Washington (round 2), Winnipeg (missed playoffs), Vegas (Didn't exist)

2017 Final Four: Ottawa (Missed playoffs), Pittsburgh (won cup), Nashville (Round 2), Anaheim (Round 1)

2016 Final Four: St.Louis (Round 1), San Jose (Missed Playoffs), Tampa Bay (Cup Finals), Pittsburgh (Round 1)

The teams that will be in the final four next year are more likely to have been teams that missed the playoffs, or had playoff failures this year, than they are teams that are still playing in the final 4.

Playoff success is rarely a linear path in the NHL. Best bet is to build a top regular season team and give yourself a shot in the playoffs each year.
It takes more than talent to win the Stanley Cup. It takes a whole host of other intangible skills and behaviours as well.

What we saw first hand this playoffs is that we are woefully inadequate in having these intangible characteristics, which drive people nuts because you can’t quantify them very well and they are hard to understand and not well understood to begin with.

We could use a lot more Justin Williams’ type players but they don’t grow on trees. It’ll be a tall challenge to get this group to the next stage of winning.

You can’t have Sean Monahan literally standing next to Johnny Gaudreau who is in a headlock and staring at the guy not pushing him or doing anything.

These things matter. In a very material way. We learnt that quickly in round 1.

Last edited by Mr.Coffee; 05-16-2019 at 05:34 PM.
Mr.Coffee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-2019, 05:35 PM   #129
memphusk
Powerplay Quarterback
 
memphusk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Exp:
Default

The squeaky wheel gets the grease. I'm sure this team will see a few changes. Not major but the type love the playoffs. Except for James Neal. Apparently that guy only loves money, and I'm a huge James Neal fan. Tired of all the ####ing excuses.
__________________
I hate just about everyone and just about everything.
memphusk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-2019, 05:38 PM   #130
Strange Brew
Franchise Player
 
Strange Brew's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Exp:
Default

^ you described exactly why Brouwer and Neal were brought here. I think we’ve learned that it is far better to develop such players from within.
Strange Brew is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-2019, 05:53 PM   #131
Beatle17
Scoring Winger
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher View Post
Why canít he be Fleury? Fleury was not taller. Fleury was stronger yes, thatís on Gaudreau. Fleury was feistier and more physical, thatís on Gaudreau.

Heck even on the same team we have Mangiapane who is a little bigger than Gaudreau but fights through checking and goes to the hard areas to battle along the boards and in front of the net unlike Gaudreau.

Gaudreau is an amazing talent but the way some of you excuse and apologize for his soft play bewilders me.

Gaudreau and Monahan have to be better if we want to be a playoff threat. If they donít have the drive, desire or toughness to do it then maybe they arenít the guys to build around.
And when Fleury played the 6'3" defencemen couldn't skate or turn so he never had to deal with guys like Burns, Chara etc. He was a great talent and very aggressive but lets be real, he was a great additional player on a championship team. Once the stars all left he never led anyone, on numerous teams, to any championships.
Beatle17 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-2019, 11:07 PM   #132
DazzlinDino
First Line Centre
 
DazzlinDino's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Grew up in Calgary now living in USA
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher View Post
Why canít he be Fleury? Fleury was not taller. Fleury was stronger yes, thatís on Gaudreau. Fleury was feistier and more physical, thatís on Gaudreau.

Heck even on the same team we have Mangiapane who is a little bigger than Gaudreau but fights through checking and goes to the hard areas to battle along the boards and in front of the net unlike Gaudreau.

Gaudreau is an amazing talent but the way some of you excuse and apologize for his soft play bewilders me.

Gaudreau and Monahan have to be better if we want to be a playoff threat. If they donít have the drive, desire or toughness to do it then maybe they arenít the guys to build around.

^ Pretty much why I think the top line is flawed, Monahan and Gaudreau are the guys getting paid, if they can't take over the game and dominate physically, or with speed we have a problem.

I think we need another top 6 who can move up down the line, has skill, speed and complements Monahan and Gaudreau, "especially come playoff time". This way Peters can still juggle if needed, but that top line has to be able to take over games.

A second option would be to build a stronger, faster second line.
DazzlinDino is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-2019, 11:39 PM   #133
DeluxeMoustache
 
DeluxeMoustache's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Exp:
Default

^ Peters maybe needs an offensive game plan other than turning them loose.

When they are scouted and defended, the coach needs to help give them a plan that works. Not just guidance to try harder
DeluxeMoustache is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:52 PM.

Calgary Flames
2017-18




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright Calgarypuck 2016