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Old 04-30-2019, 07:47 AM   #21
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I fully expect them not to win a single playoff game next year because they have not given me any reason to believe they will

They can be good in the RS all they want but few teams have been as historically inept in the postseason as the Flames have, and until that changes, I can't be any more than simply resigned to their failures
A sweeping conclusion based on limited data, or improperly applying irrelevant data to a topic.

You're going to make a great journalist.
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Old 04-30-2019, 07:50 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by TheScorpion View Post
I fully expect them not to win a single playoff game next year because they have not given me any reason to believe they will

They can be good in the RS all they want but few teams have been as historically inept in the postseason as the Flames have, and until that changes, I can't be any more than simply resigned to their failures
So based on this year, when they won a game, you expect them not to win any next time? Not logical, unless you think they played above their heads in that game.

Most people would think that the good players on Calgary can play better, and therefore the results should be at least equal, if not better.
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Old 04-30-2019, 07:51 AM   #23
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100% of the questions on this poll are dumb.

Get rid of Neal? Sure, but how?

Give players locked into long term contracts a raise? Why and how?


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Isn't peddling simple answers to complex questions kind of the Sun's thing?
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Old 04-30-2019, 07:52 AM   #24
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Attention Everyone: The Calgary Flames did not win the 2018-2019 Western Conference title; it will be won by either the Colorado Avalanche, San Jose Sharks, St. Louis Blues, or Dallas Stars. It is not a regular season title.
“Winning the Western Conference with 50 victories...”

At which point did you think they were talking about the playoffs?
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Old 04-30-2019, 07:52 AM   #25
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Isn't peddling simple answers to complex questions kind of the Sun's thing?
Including giving snarky one line answers to people who take the time to craft letters to the editor.
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Old 04-30-2019, 07:54 AM   #26
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Including giving snarky one line answers to people who take the time to craft letters to the editor.
We can’t all be perfect. -editor
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Old 04-30-2019, 07:54 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by TheScorpion View Post
They can be good in the RS all they want but few teams have been as historically inept in the postseason as the Flames have, and until that changes, I can't be any more than simply resigned to their failures
This may play into the psyche of a fan, but has absolutely nothing to do with the team they will ice next season.
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Old 04-30-2019, 07:54 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by The Cobra View Post
100% of the questions on this poll are dumb.

Get rid of Neal? Sure, but how?

Give players locked into long term contracts a raise? Why and how?


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Are you serious? This format has been used for decades and it's very simple as the intention is to state as a fan if you want the player back, or not, and if he's underpaid. It's not for readers to reply with paragraphs explaining how they would go about getting rid of Neal. That's what these forums are for.

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Old 04-30-2019, 08:10 AM   #29
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The average fan really does not like Neal.

I would give him another year before completely writing him off.
I'm willing to give him another chance. Hoping for the best. But expecting the worst. There are countless examples of players throughout NHL history who have put themselves in a bidding war as a 30+ UFA, gotten themselves a nice overpaid contract, only to fail to live up to it and become an albatross to the team.

And it's not just the Flames who have done this. It's every single NHL team at some point. So really I hope Neal can bounce back. But I fully expect him to continue to just plain ol' suck. He's not a Selanne or an Iginla who have shown they can bounce back after down seasons. The playoffs were supposed to be his on-switch. Other then a few hits here or there, he did SFA. 19 points during the regular season. 0 points in the playoffs. A non-factor most nights. Sadly, he's our Lucic.

In the unlikely event he magically bounces back, you still trade his ass if his value is decent. But I'm pretty much done with being fooled on UFA day by these big name, 30+ year old players who never seem to show up when it matters.
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Old 04-30-2019, 08:22 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan View Post
A sweeping conclusion based on limited data, or improperly applying irrelevant data to a topic.

You're going to make a great journalist.
How is there limited data there? It's twelve whole years where they have had as little playoff success as anyone in the league. It's not like I'm pulling from some random three-year span from when the league had 21 teams to argue for why Calgary is worse than Vegas.

Also, low blow, Loblaw.
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Old 04-30-2019, 08:24 AM   #31
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68% of the fan base thinking this season wasn't a failure is that exact reason why this franchise constantly accepts being average. The people will still flood the Saddledome and support four first round wins... in the history of the franchise.

Maybe next year
32% think it was a failure, while 54% think it is trending in the right direction.
Due to the options, you must choose one of those two.
I actually believe it is both: We are trending in the right direction, but the end result was a failure.
I voted for trending in the right direction.

So, to simply say 68% think the season is not a failure, is not necessarily accurate.
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Old 04-30-2019, 08:27 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by GioforPM View Post
So based on this year, when they won a game, you expect them not to win any next time? Not logical, unless you think they played above their heads in that game.

Most people would think that the good players on Calgary can play better, and therefore the results should be at least equal, if not better.
I think they can win a game (in fact, I think they can win multiple rounds), but I don't expect them to. They have been consistently disappointing in the playoffs to the point that we consider a year where they got demolished in round 2 to be the biggest success of the decade.

As a fan (and not as a journalist, Cali, jeez louise), that's disheartening. The only other teams who can look at the 2010s and say they accomplished less are Toronto and Florida. That's it. This year, and this decade, was a failure. From a perspective of passion, it is increasingly difficult to continue accepting failure. I think it's going to result simply in increased apathy on my part
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Old 04-30-2019, 08:41 AM   #33
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If I'm Murray Edwards, I'm firing the pro scouts who thought Brandon Bollig, Mason Raymond, Troy Brouwer and James Neal were going to be difference makers on this team. The amount of buried money, dead cap space/salary or missed opportunity cost is just baffling.

If you can't trust your most important financial decision makers, then they shouldn't be in charge of making multi million dollar decisions. We're talking about nearly $60 Million thrown right out the window.
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Old 04-30-2019, 08:43 AM   #34
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Remember when everyone thought we were a bubble team heading into the season? All things considered, the season- including playoffs wasn’t as awful as it seems.

Half our defence core is 22 or younger. Our top line are 25 and younger. The team definitely needs some tweaks, but I believe development and maturity will be the biggest factors in this team’s ability to win in the postseason.

50 wins and an, albeit, lacklustre first round exit for a team that looked horrific and missed the playoffs last year. Things are still trending up. This is still part of the process. Not all teams take the exact same path. We have a good team and, for the next few years we have a chance at a run in April. It’s really not so bad right now, all things considered. This is still the best team from top to bottom that I have seen as a Flames fan.
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Old 04-30-2019, 08:50 AM   #35
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Remember when everyone thought we were a bubble team heading into the season? All things considered, the season- including playoffs wasn’t as awful as it seems.

Half our defence core is 22 or younger. Our top line are 25 and younger. The team definitely needs some tweaks, but I believe development and maturity will be the biggest factors in this team’s ability to win in the postseason.

50 wins and an, albeit, lacklustre first round exit for a team that looked horrific and missed the playoffs last year. Things are still trending up. This is still part of the process. Not all teams take the exact same path. We have a good team and, for the next few years we have a chance at a run in April. It’s really not so bad right now, all things considered. This is still the best team from top to bottom that I have seen as a Flames fan.
I actually didn't think they were a bubble team but I also didn;t think they were a first place team. I figured them for the third place Pacific or fairly solid 2nd wild card. and then a tough time to win a round, being the underdog. And that the upcoming season would see them contending for the upper spots.

But, yeah, this is sorta like when Hartley's team overachieved and changed the expectations for the following year. The team regressed a bit. This time it happened in the POs instead of the next season.

That all said, I think that there are legit concerns about how the team is built as far as playoff hockey is concerned, at least until PO hockey resembles regular season hockey more (reffing etc).
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Old 04-30-2019, 08:52 AM   #36
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Why are they now learning? Why weren't they learning before?

I was told that the 2019 team was fundamentally more powerful than the 2017 team, which was supposed to be running a much more dependable system than the 2015 team, which was the most successful team I've ever seen because they only lost in the second round in 5.

That's pretty sad. I'm tired of all the losing. It's embarrassing and almost unmatched. The 2020 Flames can go all-out, they can land whomever they want in UFA, but I will not expect them to have any success until they actually show up for once and do it. It's not like I owe them any dedication -- I've been watching them for twelve years now and they still haven't won a single regulation game past the first round. The only other teams to achieve that miserly distinction in that timeframe are the Florida Panthers and the Toronto Maple Leafs, but at least those teams have first-overall talents.
There's randomness to playoff hockey that nobody can put a finger on.

If you're team isn't properly constructed you don't make the playoffs so it's a moot point anyway. If it is and they fall on their face repeatedly then you have to question leadership and character for sure.

This year's team was the best regular season team we've seen in Calgary in 35 years ... that's a step in the right direction under any measure.

What happened in the playoffs may be a sign that the team is flawed for playoff hockey, or a matter of learning. Up to you, won't tell you how to think.

But just like the 2004 team had no business winning three rounds, the Flames likely deserved better in 2017 than a sweep, but got what they deserved this Spring.

Who are they next year is why Treliving is paid the big bucks.

But I don't see Flames history as having any bearing at all.
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Old 04-30-2019, 08:56 AM   #37
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“Winning the Western Conference with 50 victories...”



At which point did you think they were talking about the playoffs?
I didn’t think they were talking about the playoffs but the only place to win the Western Conference IS the playoffs. Even if the Flames had the most wins in the regular season there is no conference to be won then. Saying the Flames won the Western Conference regular season title is inventing an accomplishment that doesn’t exist.
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Old 04-30-2019, 08:56 AM   #38
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I'm willing to give him another chance. Hoping for the best. But expecting the worst. There are countless examples of players throughout NHL history who have put themselves in a bidding war as a 30+ UFA, gotten themselves a nice overpaid contract, only to fail to live up to it and become an albatross to the team.

And it's not just the Flames who have done this. It's every single NHL team at some point. So really I hope Neal can bounce back. But I fully expect him to continue to just plain ol' suck. He's not a Selanne or an Iginla who have shown they can bounce back after down seasons. The playoffs were supposed to be his on-switch. Other then a few hits here or there, he did SFA. 19 points during the regular season. 0 points in the playoffs. A non-factor most nights. Sadly, he's our Lucic.

In the unlikely event he magically bounces back, you still trade his ass if his value is decent. But I'm pretty much done with being fooled on UFA day by these big name, 30+ year old players who never seem to show up when it matters.
Same boat, mostly. He has 1 more year, but I'm going to be mighty shocked if this guy ever carries his weight.

Thankfully though, I don't think Neal affects our cap much (yet) which is the big difference between him and Lucic. It's irritating and disappointing that our $5-6M investment isn't panning out, but Tre didn't let that contract and player be the saviour and answer - there seemed to be an actual plan in place . Turned out Neal was going to have a hard time earning that #1 RW spot even if he had a good year.

If he plays it smart (knowing it could be another Bollig, Neal, Brouwer) I don't mind taking a flyer on a few guys like this to fill holes. Just avoid making that guy the answer to a big question, and letting his contract destroy any hope you have of filling a roster. I think, in the end, Neal in the locker-room (as was Jagr) was a good thing. If you can get a guy that actually earns his contract too? Paydirt.
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Old 04-30-2019, 08:59 AM   #39
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If I'm Murray Edwards, I'm firing the pro scouts who thought Brandon Bollig, Mason Raymond, Troy Brouwer and James Neal were going to be difference makers on this team. The amount of buried money, dead cap space/salary or missed opportunity cost is just baffling.

If you can't trust your most important financial decision makers, then they shouldn't be in charge of making multi million dollar decisions. We're talking about nearly $60 Million thrown right out the window.
Bollig and Raymond, yes. They were garbage signings at the time of signing and confirmed as the deals played out.

Brouwer and Neal, no. No one thought Brouwer's production and physical play would fall of a cliff at the time of signing. At the very least, he would have been a physical presence with veteran experience and leadership. Likewise for Neal, but he was an even bigger disappointment. Again, at the time of signing these didn't look like bad deals.
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Old 04-30-2019, 09:02 AM   #40
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There's randomness to playoff hockey that nobody can put a finger on.

If you're team isn't properly constructed you don't make the playoffs so it's a moot point anyway. If it is and they fall on their face repeatedly then you have to question leadership and character for sure.

This year's team was the best regular season team we've seen in Calgary in 35 years ... that's a step in the right direction under any measure.

What happened in the playoffs may be a sign that the team is flawed for playoff hockey, or a matter of learning. Up to you, won't tell you how to think.

But just like the 2004 team had no business winning three rounds, the Flames likely deserved better in 2017 than a sweep, but got what they deserved this Spring.

Who are they next year is why Treliving is paid the big bucks.

But I don't see Flames history as having any bearing at all.
Everything you've said here is correct. I'm not saying that history has any bearing on their success, though. That's not at all what I'm saying.

I'm just saying that their lack of success in the past has lowered my own personal expectations of what they will achieve. I have been conditioned to expect failure. I'm not saying that their failure is some sort of dooming curse. I just don't get optimistic about the team anymore because they haven't given me any reason to be. Add the saying goes, "I'll believe it when I see it"--and I haven't seen any of it. The failure is all I've ever known, so until it gets better in the playoffs, all of the regular-season success and the "best defenses in the league" don't mean a whole lot.

Perhaps that's irrational.
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