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Old 05-13-2019, 07:56 AM   #13861
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Originally Posted by TheScorpion View Post
they certainly aren't cost-controlled, they're club-controlled
And worth more than the proposed offer.
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Old 05-13-2019, 10:25 AM   #13862
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I’ve always found the definition of cost-controlled is a player that is under a great contract for the span of 3+ years.

Pending UFA’s/RFA’s aren’t cost controlled.

Gaudreau = cost controlled
Hanifin = “ “
Lindholm = “ “

(TOR) Matthews? I don’t think 11.5m is cost controlled considering he hasn’t necessarily earned that contract.

(ANA) Rakell? Cost controlled.
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Old 05-13-2019, 10:54 AM   #13863
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That's still considered cost controlled isn't it? I thought cost controlled just meant that you owned the asset aka not UFA.
To me cost controlled is a 2-3+ years signed contract at reasonable terms versus an RFA that is going to get a decent bump and potentially more then they want to pay.
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Old 05-13-2019, 11:14 AM   #13864
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Originally Posted by ForeverFlameFan View Post
I’ve always found the definition of cost-controlled is a player that is under a great contract for the span of 3+ years.

Pending UFA’s/RFA’s aren’t cost controlled.

Gaudreau = cost controlled
Hanifin = “ “
Lindholm = “ “

(TOR) Matthews? I don’t think 11.5m is cost controlled considering he hasn’t necessarily earned that contract.

(ANA) Rakell? Cost controlled.

Yup.

I mean to have "cost control" there has to be an actual cost affixed.

Otherwise as Scorp points out, its merely club control.
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Old 05-13-2019, 11:16 AM   #13865
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I wonder how active Detroit is going to be at the draft. They have 3 second rounders and don't have enough NHL players under contract to field a full roster.

They are actually in a really good position to see a quick 2 year turnaround.

I mention it because Calgary currently is sporting a lot of extra bodies, and some of them don't seem to fit into the big picture going forward. Calgary also does not own a second round pick.
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Old 05-13-2019, 11:42 AM   #13866
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Would there be a deal that works for the Flames that the Kings would be okay with where we essentially traded Neal for Quick?

Quick is a couple of years older with injury history but has not seen the slow down that Neal had last year. Same contract length and within $100K in contract. Kings have Campbell and Petersen in goal and could be looking to move Quick. Neal might fit better with the team dynamic and playing style that the Kings have.

How much would the Flames need to add?
Would the Kings do the deal at all?
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Old 05-13-2019, 11:50 AM   #13867
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Would there be a deal that works for the Flames that the Kings would be okay with where we essentially traded Neal for Quick?

Quick is a couple of years older with injury history but has not seen the slow down that Neal had last year. Same contract length and within $100K in contract. Kings have Campbell and Petersen in goal and could be looking to move Quick. Neal might fit better with the team dynamic and playing style that the Kings have.

How much would the Flames need to add?
Would the Kings do the deal at all?
Risky move for the Flames. If Quick doesn't recover his past form then he will cost the Flames a lot more wins then if Neal doesn't recover his form.
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Old 05-13-2019, 04:48 PM   #13868
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Quick's contract is sooo much better in actual cash.

7M, 3.5M, 3M, 2.5M.

If he didn't work out too well for the Flames in a year, they would still be a ton of non-cap teams lining up to get him at 3M as a veteran cup winning backup.

If Neal has another bad year, he's effectively 6M of deadspace.
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Old 05-13-2019, 05:19 PM   #13869
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Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen View Post
Quick's contract is sooo much better in actual cash.

7M, 3.5M, 3M, 2.5M.

If he didn't work out too well for the Flames in a year, they would still be a ton of non-cap teams lining up to get him at 3M as a veteran cup winning backup.

If Neal has another bad year, he's effectively 6M of deadspace.

Which is why the Flames would probably have to throw in a pretty good sweetener to make that happen.
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Old 05-13-2019, 05:36 PM   #13870
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Which is why the Flames would probably have to throw in a pretty good sweetener to make that happen.
Jonathan Quick is a world class goaltender if he’s not injured. Neal has suddenly gone past his prime to the point where he’s lucky if he’s a third rounder. I’m not sure Treliving can bank his entire future with the team on Quick being healthy. That being said when you take into account other teams getting into the fold, someone out there who’s around the 7th position will be willing to take a flyer on Quick and likely LA won’t need to take back something like Neal in return. Quicks upside is high enough for someone to pay a solid price I’d think.
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Old 05-13-2019, 11:28 PM   #13871
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Yeah Quick is interesting and I could see the Kings moving him. His contract will make it tough but Kings would have no interest in Neal, who has negative value at this point.

Would Quick clear waivers? Interesting question but he probably would because it’s too much salary to take on without something going back. I know Neal would clear.

Moving Stone or Frolik is more likely in a Quick deal. And a reasonable draft pick I’d imagine.
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Old 05-14-2019, 08:27 AM   #13872
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Would Quick clear waivers? Interesting question but he probably would because it’s too much salary to take on without something going back.
One bad year for a goalie, while not ideal, can be just an anomaly. Especially when you have early-season surgery. Look at Price last year compared to this season.

The 'risk' associated with Quick, 16M over 4 years (4M/year average in actual cash) is far outweighed by the 'reward' of getting a potential multi-time Vezina candidate and Conn Smythe winner calibre goalie.

He's older than ideal, and maybe the miles mixed with injuries are catching up but he's also only 33. It's not unusual for a goalie to last into their mid 30s and there's really no risk for his contract when he's making 2.5M in a couple years. So I don't think he has a ton of value, I don't think he's at all realistic to 'clear waivers.'
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Old 05-14-2019, 01:09 PM   #13873
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Jonathan Quick is a world class goaltender if he’s not injured.
... his career average save % is .914. That doesn't scream "world class goaltender" to me (even without taking into consideration that he was backstopping the franchise with IMO the best full team defense in the NHL for much of it). I wouldn't wager much on a 33 year old athlete performing at career average going forward.

The only way I'd take Quick without Neal going the other way is if we sent Stone and LA ate half his contract to make the money balance out.
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Old 05-14-2019, 01:29 PM   #13874
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... his career average save % is .914. That doesn't scream "world class goaltender" to me (even without taking into consideration that he was backstopping the franchise with IMO the best full team defense in the NHL for much of it). I wouldn't wager much on a 33 year old athlete performing at career average going forward.

The only way I'd take Quick without Neal going the other way is if we sent Stone and LA ate half his contract to make the money balance out.
Quick won the Jennings Trophy just a year ago. Please share the list of goalies with a career average considerably better than .914. Kiprusoff and Martin Brodeur both have a career .912.
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Old 05-14-2019, 01:40 PM   #13875
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Quick won the Jennings Trophy just a year ago. Please share the list of goalies with a career average considerably better than .914. Kiprusoff and Martin Brodeur both have a career .912.
James Neal has 25 goals a year ago, plus 6 in the post season. Just sayin'...
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Old 05-14-2019, 02:10 PM   #13876
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James Neal has 25 goals a year ago, plus 6 in the post season. Just sayin'...
Well to be fair he also played quite a bit more than 5 playoff games last year too.
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Old 05-14-2019, 02:37 PM   #13877
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Well to be fair he also played quite a bit more than 5 playoff games last year too.
True. But the point is that players drop off, and maybe that's true of Quick as well. Or, if Quick can bounce back maybe Neal can too.
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Old 05-14-2019, 02:51 PM   #13878
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True. But the point is that players drop off, and maybe that's true of Quick as well. Or, if Quick can bounce back maybe Neal can too.
If only. So many problems instantly solved if Neal bounces back.
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Old 05-16-2019, 09:48 AM   #13879
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Well to be fair he also played quite a bit more than 5 playoff games last year too.
You mean 4 playoff games
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Old 05-16-2019, 09:54 AM   #13880
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To be honest I still have not been able to watch much hockey since the Flames were bounced. I am just not interested in these playoffs and definitely am suffering from getting way too emotionally invested in the team this year.

I just want the season to end so the trade speculation takes front and center stage. This is the time of year Treliving makes his moves. I want to get excited about the team again and that will happen once the roster for next year starts to take form.
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