Job Seekers thread Mark 2

[Weitz]

Originally Posted by Nufy

How do you get past the automated requirements.

For example...I see a posting and I meet all the requirements except for a P. Eng designation.

My 20 years of experience in that role is nothing compared to a 5 year P. Eng even though I am more qualified.

When clicking through the listing website do you lie and say yes to the Eng Degree and P.Eng requirement in the hopes that your actual experience will be enough ?

What sort of position? Could be a reason they need a P eng. Some things have changed with Apega.

But lying in the application is the easiest way to not get looked at.

[Bonded]

Yeah, if it actually needs a P.Eng to sign off on things then you aren't more qualified unfortunately. I would not lie about it though.

[dino7c]

If he doesn't lie it 100% doesn't get looked at
If he lies he might get a chance to speak his case in an interview

I lied my way into jobs back in the day

[CaptainCrunch]

Its different if it becomes a red flag, If you submit your reference and cover letter, and emphsize hey I have all of the experience and get rejected fine, you've still found your way into their system.


However if you lie about it, get busted you get a huge red flag in their HR bench file and that organization is off the table forever.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by dino7c

If he doesn't lie it 100% doesn't get looked at
If he lies he might get a chance to speak his case in an interview

I lied my way into jobs back in the day

Yeah, but you can't lie about a P. Eng though. You either have it or you don't and you will piss off the company if they waste their time on it and it is role critical. If it isn't role critical then he can say he doesn't have it and talk to his experience.

[Weitz]

Originally Posted by dino7c

If he doesn't lie it 100% doesn't get looked at
If he lies he might get a chance to speak his case in an interview

I lied my way into jobs back in the day

Different world now.

[CaptainCrunch]

Look up the term counterfeit candidate, its a science now that HR professionals are paranoid about. You can't lie into jobs like you used to. They too well trained on weeding out the BS'ers.


Right now, I'm doing probably 10 interviews a day, and I'm weeding out half of them just due to suspicion.

[Nufy]

Maybe a better question is do recruiters realize that there are different designations available from Apega.

From my 20+ years of experience I have been accredited with a P.L. Eng. Designation

I authenticate designs and approve documents according to Apega standards.

However most automated applications systems do not have that option.

So am I a P.Eng. No...so the system automatically rejects the application even though i know i am qualified for the position.

[GGG]

I would suspect that the recruiter is not aware of the difference. I’m not sure engineering managers outside of EPCs are aware of the difference. I would check the box then follow up via email informing them that the you are a professional licensee whose designated scope of practice falls within the responsibilities of the job posting.

If someone challenged you on it you would say you have the legal right to perform Engineering services in the province of Alberta within your scope of practice.

[RichieRich]

Originally Posted by GGG

I would suspect that the recruiter is not aware of the difference. I’m not sure engineering managers outside of EPCs are aware of the difference. I would check the box then follow up via email informing them that the you are a professional licensee whose designated scope of practice falls within the responsibilities of the job posting.

If someone challenged you on it you would say you have the legal right to perform Engineering services in the province of Alberta within your scope of practice.

I agree that often recruiters are not aware of the differences. If you're able to actually talk with the recruiter they will likely be open to learning that APEGA also certifies professional technologists as competent to stamp designs/studies/etc.. In my experience I would *much* rather have a 20yr experience APEGA certified stamping authority than a 4-5yr experienced P.Eng.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Nufy

Maybe a better question is do recruiters realize that there are different designations available from Apega.

From my 20+ years of experience I have been accredited with a P.L. Eng. Designation

I authenticate designs and approve documents according to Apega standards.

However most automated applications systems do not have that option.

So am I a P.Eng. No...so the system automatically rejects the application even though i know i am qualified for the position.

The recruiter is given a check box job description by the company that's hiring. They review the resumes and rank them based upon the client's rating system.



If the client says that have to have a certain degree. Then that's a major part of the rating. If the client says, have either a P.Eng or 20 years experience, then that gives the recruiter the latitude to reach out. It also depend honestly on the type of recruiter and their experience. If they've seen roles like this before they might ask the question of the client, hey are their equivalencies or exceptions. But a general recruiter, more likely to just accept the job description on faith that its exactly what the client wants.


What might happens is that the Recruiter follows their job descriptions gathers and ranks the application marks the top 5 or 10, sends it in, the Client blames the recruiter for the poor quality of candidates even though its their job description and the Reciter follows the guideline and the Client does a re calibration.


Like I said, for the most part, Recruiters are pretty much account managers, they're not specialized. On occasion you'll find firms that hire specialized recruiters who have the knowledge and experience to ask questions around the job description. For example I did specific Life Sciences recruiting, did lots of homework on it, studied it, leaned on the experience of my colleges and I had the credibility to challenge the client on their requirements.


Don't make an assumption that a recruiter is going to be creative or understand the different between a requirement of a P.Eng and someone who isn't and has 20 years of experience. Also remember its likely that a recruiter right now is seeing 50 or 100 200 resumes for a job, so they're likely to find a top 10 with a P.Eng. A Recruiters first job is to do the filtering and vetting of the resumes based on what the client wants. Then act as a liaison, and in the end do some negotiation.



Just my 2 cents.

[hixxes]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

hoping for you. Interviews are like tests. You always come out thinking you did about 23% worse then you actually did. Now take a deep breath and let us know when you hear back.

I got the job. It's a 3 month contract to start but hopefully it turns into a long term gig. If all goes well it should.

I am beyond excited. This past year has been crazy for so many reasons and being out of work added a whole other dynamic.

Thank you so much to everyone in this thread, and in particular to Cap for all the insights and help with the job search and course guidance.

[CaptainCrunch]

Congrats, that's great news!!

[Derek Sutton]

Did any who receive the CERB double payment return the money? I was expecting it to be "garnished" from my tax refund but that has not happened.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Derek Sutton

Did any who receive the CERB double payment return the money? I was expecting it to be "garnished" from my tax refund but that has not happened.

When I was on Cerb, they balanced out on the double payment, by not paying me on one of the payments (yeah my head spun when I typed it). But I won't be submitting my tax return til the deadline anyways. But if you got the double and were only on short term where they didn't do the make up one you should get dinged.

[Derek Sutton]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

When I was on Cerb, they balanced out on the double payment, by not paying me on one of the payments (yeah my head spun when I typed it). But I won't be submitting my tax return til the deadline anyways. But if you got the double and were only on short term where they didn't do the make up one you should get dinged.

Yes I was fortunate enough to find employment by July and was notified in October that I am to repay $2000 from the initial double payment in April. Did not worry about it as was going to tailor my taxes to balance things out. The money was not "taken" out of my return.

[RichieRich]

Working part time... hey at least it’s a bit more than double EI but grinding away in the O&G industry. Man there are some personalities in here that just f’n blow my mind. Hard asses, rude, bullying, domineering, antagonistic, and totally disruptive to the technical teams. In this case it’s a client boss who is above his own Project Manager who is spineless. I’ve already had to walk 2 new direct-reports back from their proverbial ledges several times because of client-bully-man. One already refuses to attend anything this bully attends. The other barely has a seething simmer and often hangs up before they blow up at the bully. Problem is our boss lets this bully continue and actually doesn’t see the issues. Plus my boss does not want me to stand up and stop the behavior because he’s afraid it’ll mean either we get kicked off the job or we never work for them again. I say sometimes you gotta rip the bandaid off.

Dunno how more years of this I can take in the is industry. Sigh...
Rant over. Maybe. For now...

[Weitz]

Originally Posted by RichieRich

Working part time... hey at least it’s a bit more than double EI but grinding away in the O&G industry. Man there are some personalities in here that just f’n blow my mind. Hard asses, rude, bullying, domineering, antagonistic, and totally disruptive to the technical teams. In this case it’s a client boss who is above his own Project Manager who is spineless. I’ve already had to walk 2 new direct-reports back from their proverbial ledges several times because of client-bully-man. One already refuses to attend anything this bully attends. The other barely has a seething simmer and often hangs up before they blow up at the bully. Problem is our boss lets this bully continue and actually doesn’t see the issues. Plus my boss does not want me to stand up and stop the behavior because he’s afraid it’ll mean either we get kicked off the job or we never work for them again. I say sometimes you gotta rip the bandaid off.

Dunno how more years of this I can take in the is industry. Sigh...
Rant over. Maybe. For now...

That’s too bad. Good companies have been removing people like that over the last many years as they aren’t welcome anymore.

We pulled out of a contract with a customer due to a similar situation and when the executives heard about why they removed the idiot like you described and brought us back without issue. It’s too bad you guys can’t move on from the customer.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by RichieRich

Working part time... hey at least it’s a bit more than double EI but grinding away in the O&G industry.

A little more than double EI for a part time job? EI is $1050 take home every two weeks, so over $4200 take home a month part time?

It's sobering to see what others make sometimes. Man I need to move up in the working world at some point. You know it's bad when you see someone going "yeah, it's alright for now as a part time job" and think "Yeah, I'd be ecstatic if I found a full time job for $4200 take home a month".

*That response was purely about the pay, and my own desire to get better, the followup about working conditions sounds brutal.

[RichieRich]

Fair enough and no I did not intend any kind of humble brag or put down to anyone. Yes I do appreciate the reality check. My rant was about a different situation entirely that I suspect most here can relate to. Lastly.. there some folks on CP that definitely make a metric sh*t ton more hourly/daily/monthly. As in several multiples.

No that’s not take home. That’s before anything at all is taken off. Everything else comes off of that. And no it’s not a simple “work 4 days for 4 hours each day”. It might be 8-930am, 1130-12, 3-4, 9-10pm. Rinse repeat. Might include weekend time and stats. I haven’t provided a comment regarding my role but I now oversee several others who each have reports too, plus the intention is to soon be part of corporate strategy planning.

Just the way it goes at this place and in this industry. So therefore can’t even plan a life, time with own family, or have a go at getting another contract. And also for me at 20+ years in the industry carrying a mortgage and family... it doesn’t cover all costs.