Bus Zone interferes with Driveway - Getting tickets

[81MC]

Out front of my house is a bus stop, with full pad and additional front access pad. Immediate after this is the driveway of my house, which as remained in its exact same location for 70 years.

The sign for the bus stop *used* to be on the ‘stop’ side of my driveway. A number of years ago, Transit saw fit to move the sign to the far side of my driveway. In effect, the busy zone now encompasses my entire driveway access.

The bus drivers trying to give me #### for having a car in front of my driveway is one thing, and using my driveway as a pad in the wintertime despite me clearing the actual bus pad all winter is another.

But I have yet again received a ticket from CPA, and I have several requests in with Transit to relocate the sign to its original position or provide some sort of evidence that access to a private driveway is trumped by a sign. I have never received a follow up for this.


Is anyone familiar with the ins/outs of the traffic or land use bylaw? I’ve read and I don’t see any particular article that indicates that a bus zone can’t actually block a driveway. Maybe I’m in the wrong, and my driveway can actually be used as a bus stop, in which case I’ll pay the fine and leave snow clearing to the City. But I will be going to court to fight this one, as apparently no one at Transit can be bothered to respond other than to send a CPA agent to issue a ticket. If there’s a particular article that would prove my case, I’d be grateful.

Thank you.

[ResAlien]

Can you provide any photographs of the placement or in lieu of that some MS Paint mock ups? Might help in figuring out the situation.

[Oling_Roachinen]

If you are parking your car completely on your driveway, outside of your own inconvenience when backing up and a bus is there, I can't possibly see why they would give you a ticket or grievance.

Unless your parking is disrupting the sidewalk, which must be kept clear.

[BlackArcher101]

I'm a bit confused by your description. Are you getting a ticket for parking IN your driveway, or parking in front of it? What do you mean by your driveway pad?

I don't see how a bus zone can block your driveway, so not sure what the problem is. Even if the bus zone was up to your driveway, you technically shouldn't be parking in front of your own driveway anyways, so the sign on one side vs the other shouldn't make any difference where you are allowed to park.

[burn_this_city]

I think he's parking on the road in front of his driveway and they are ticketing him for parking in a bus zone.

[81MC]

_____________________________
——————————————————-
__[BUSPAD]___[Sm.Pad]_[DRIVEWAY][SIGN]

Where _ is curb approx 3’ in length.

I should note, not that I believe it should matter at all: this is a community shuttle bus, on a dead end residential road. I am not, in any way, parking my vehicle so they it interferes with the actual bus stop, or disrupts traffic. This is nothing more than Transit ignoring an obviously poorly placed sign and CPA issuing tickets, while my filed requests to remedy are ignored.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Yeah, you can't legally street park - technically - within 1.5 metres of a driveway. Even your own. I don't know how often, if ever, that's enforced when it's your own driveway but double whammy of bus zone now makes it a problem. You also can't park on the sidewalk, even if that sidewalk forms part of a driveway.

[TorqueDog]

This sounds like bullsh-t on the City's part, and I hope you win this.

[81MC]

PS, I mean street parking in front of driveway. Maybe this is not allowed (I can’t see why not, it’s my own driveway I’m blocking) in which case I’ll stop doing it. But the tickets have been explicitly for parking in a bus zone, not parking in front of a driveway.

Looking at the bylaw, Transit would be explicitly in contravention of it every time they stop in front of my driveway.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by 81MC

PS, I mean street parking in front of driveway. Maybe this is not allowed (I can’t see why not, it’s my own driveway I’m blocking) in which case I’ll stop doing it. But the tickets have been explicitly for parking in a bus zone, not parking in front of a driveway.

Looking at the bylaw, Transit would be explicitly in contravention of it every time they stop in front of my driveway.

I think you have a few things working against you:
- You don't own or have any right to the street in front of your house
- You can't park in a bus zone
- You can't park in front of a driveway

So, you might be screwed, but you should still campaign to get the sign moved. Buses are allowed to stop in front of a driveway, though, so that's not an angle I'd bother with. It's just the actual parking that's an issue.

[Hockeyguy15]

You either got a bus driver that complained about your car or the parking authority was in the area for something else and gave you a ticket. You’re not allowed to block a driveway (even your own), but if you block your own you don’t usually get a ticket because you aren’t going to complain about it to the CPA.

[Lubicon]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

Yeah, you can't legally street park - technically - within 1.5 metres of a driveway. Even your own. I don't know how often, if ever, that's enforced when it's your own driveway but double whammy of bus zone now makes it a problem. You also can't park on the sidewalk, even if that sidewalk forms part of a driveway.

Interesting. That means (on my street anyway) that many vehicles cannot legally park at all on the street as the distances between driveways is small enough that you would have trouble leaving 1.5m in front and behind the vehicle.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Yeah, and angle parking in cul de sac with a bunch of driveways are also technically not allowed

Unless required or permitted by the Act or by a Traffic Control Device, or in
compliance with the directions of a Peace Officer, or to avoid conflict with other
traffic, a driver of a vehicle shall not stop or park that vehicle:
(g)within 1.5 metres of an access to a garage, private road or driveway, or a
vehicle crossway over a Sidewalk

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Nonetheless, the city is arguably interfering with the use of your property and you might get a mandatory injunction to move the stop, unless there's some reason why it can't be on the other side of your driveway (eg the bus won't fit there, or poses a safety issue of some sort).

[RedHot25]

Originally Posted by Lubicon

Interesting. That means (on my street anyway) that many vehicles cannot legally park at all on the street as the distances between driveways is small enough that you would have trouble leaving 1.5m in front and behind the vehicle.

Yeah, I'm having trouble with this one. How big is the average lot? Take 1.5m away from my driveway, I'm back near the neighbour's driveway, and can't park there as I would be encroaching on the 1.5 m rule. I am in a place with zero lot lines.

this seems to all but - in theory - eliminate street parking in a lot of areas.

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

It sounds like MC81 is parking on the street in front of his driveway.

Is that the case?
If it is then you're definitely breaking the bylaw as you're parking in the bus zone.
The street in front of your driveway is in a bus zone. It doesn't matter that it's in front of your driveway, you don't have any ownership/right to park on the street in front if your driveway (or any other part of your property for that matter).

As to your comment about the bus breaking the bylaw every time they stop in front of your house (I assume you mean parking within 1.5m of the driveway), that's not correct either, as the bus isn't parked, it is stopped, which is a pretty important difference.

[BlackArcher101]

Areas that have driveways generally don't have much for street parking. That's why you have driveways....

Quite a few streets in my neighborhood that have 1-3m between driveways so no chance of getting vehicles on the street at all.

How far back on your property does this bus zone begin? Having the zone end at the start of your drive way may have given them room to stop, but maybe not pull out safely. I noticed they made zones in my area longer in order to allow the bus to do a more gradual pull-out. So your car may not interfere with the actual stop portion, but it may make it difficult to pull out of it. Possibly why CPA gets called.

And yes, you are breaking the bylaw parking in front of your own driveway regardless of a bus zone or not. Whether you get ticketed for it is a different question, if say the zone wasn't there, you would still be at risk for a ticket from the CPA.

On your diagram, what is the Sm.Pad between the bus stop and your driveway? Is that the pad on the grass where the front doors are for the bus and people wait? If so, and that's next to your driveway.... then I can totally see why the stop is past your driveway so he can pull out.

[Ducay]

I still think a couple pictures would make this a helluva lot easier

[81MC]

Originally Posted by Bring_Back_Shantz

It sounds like MC81 is parking on the street in front of his driveway.

Is that the case?
If it is then you're definitely breaking the bylaw as you're parking in the bus zone.
The street in front of your driveway is in a bus zone. It doesn't matter that it's in front of your driveway, you don't have any ownership/right to park on the street in front if your driveway (or any other part of your property for that matter).

As to your comment about the bus breaking the bylaw every time they stop in front of your house (I assume you mean parking within 1.5m of the driveway), that's not correct either, as the bus isn't parked, it is stopped, which is a pretty important difference.

Yes, car is parked on street in front of driveway.

Is there a particular reference that anyone knows of regarding this? It seems pretty odd that bus zone could encompass a driveway, let alone be used an an actual stop. I’d post a picture by I’m technically challenged.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Reference to what?

You can't park or stop within 1.5 metres of a driveway unless a traffic control device says otherwise.

A traffic control device includes signage. A sign indicating that it is a bus zone allows a bus to park or stop in that area. Maybe you can get some relief to park there as well under 3. but I highly doubt it. Traffic engineer has the ability to establish bus zones.

1. The Traffic Engineer is hereby delegated the authority to establish and remove bus zones or may establish a bus zone where private charter buses may stop or park.

2. No operator or owner of a vehicle, other than a bus belonging to the Calgary
Transit System shall park or stop, or permit the parking or stopping, of such
vehicle in a bus zone.

3. Notwithstanding Subsection (2) the Traffic Engineer, on the recommendation of the Director, Calgary Transit may allow vehicles other than those operated by or belonging to Calgary Transit to use a bus zone subject to such restrictions and conditions as the Traffic Engineer may in his sole discretion impose.