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Old 02-24-2016, 02:11 PM   #1081
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Whoop de do.
Good teams have depth.

If you can retain these good depth pieces because they are undervalued across the league, why would you trade them off for 5th and 6th round draft picks?

Jooris is a good and underappreciated piece. He's not going to fetch anything significant in a trade though.

Keep him and benefit from him.
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Old 02-24-2016, 02:12 PM   #1082
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I absolutely hate advanced stats.

People should rarely if ever be pissed about losing plugs like Byron or Jooris these guys are playing 10min a game or less. They sre slightly better than other 4th liners who cares?

Flames can't commit money and term to these guys and need to focus on establishing a solid core to keep and bringing up prospects to fill these bottom line roles
Yeah. Just put whoever is tallest on his skates in there. That is how a real winning hockey team is built. Hockey is played with pucks, not numbers right? Stupid nerds.
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Old 02-24-2016, 02:14 PM   #1083
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I absolutely hate advanced stats.

People should rarely if ever be pissed about losing plugs like Byron or Jooris these guys are playing 10min a game or less. They sre slightly better than other 4th liners who cares?

Flames can't commit money and term to these guys and need to focus on establishing a solid core to keep and bringing up prospects to fill these bottom line roles
Who is committing money and term to these guys?

Paul Byron just re-signed for a little over $1M. Jooris would likely cost less than a million for a one-year contract.

This is a team that just handed a grinder who gets pummeled in terms of possession a three-year $2.3 million AAV contract. Both Byron and Jooris are better than Bouma.

At the same time, they'll cost half that. That's exactly why I want them. Commit money and term to the likes of Gaudreau and Bennett, not bottom 6ers.
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Old 02-24-2016, 02:15 PM   #1084
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This would be Paul Byron 2.0. The Flames have to be smarter than that. It's almost eerie.
I have no idea if you're saying that as justification for trading Jooris (i.e. don't hang on to a guy who you might lose to waivers in the fall) or for keeping him.
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Old 02-24-2016, 02:16 PM   #1085
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Good teams have depth.

If you can retain these good depth pieces because they are undervalued across the league, why would you trade them off for 5th and 6th round draft picks?

Jooris is a good and underappreciated piece. He's not going to fetch anything significant in a trade though.

Keep him and benefit from him.
Good teams have good depth. Not marginal NHL'er depth.
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Old 02-24-2016, 02:18 PM   #1086
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Good teams have good depth. Not marginal NHL'er depth.
Jooris isn't going to win you a game single handedly, but if he's productive, effect, and above adequate in his role, all while being cheap, why trade him for a late round draft pick?

So maybe we can draft another Jooris to be ready in 4 years?
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Old 02-24-2016, 02:20 PM   #1087
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Jooris isn't going to win you a game single handedly, but if he's productive, effect, and above adequate in his role, all while being cheap, why trade him for a late round draft pick?

So maybe we can draft another Jooris to be ready in 4 years?
draft another Jooris in four years? Jooris and Byron's are all over the place. Hard working players with decent defence who can't score for ####.

Trade Jooris, big deal, find another one.
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Old 02-24-2016, 02:21 PM   #1088
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Originally Posted by Ashasx View Post
Good teams have depth.

If you can retain these good depth pieces because they are undervalued across the league, why would you trade them off for 5th and 6th round draft picks?

Jooris is a good and underappreciated piece. He's not going to fetch anything significant in a trade though.

Keep him and benefit from him.
Good teams replace their depth regularly without skipping a beat. Hell, Chicago replaces their skill players every couple years without skipping a beat.

It's just not worth losing sleep over. These guys are bottom 6 players. It really shouldn't be a big deal to lose them.
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Old 02-24-2016, 02:23 PM   #1089
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This is a team that just handed a grinder who gets pummeled in terms of possession a three-year $2.3 million AAV contract. Both Byron and Jooris are better than Bouma.
No, they aren't. Hockey is more than shot generation and shot suppression. Bouma is way more valuable than either of those guys.

Pretty sure Grant and Hathaway can replace Jooris since they looked as good or better than Jooris last training camp.
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Old 02-24-2016, 02:23 PM   #1090
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If we can't fall in love with replaceable bottom 6 players then the terrorists have won.
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Old 02-24-2016, 02:26 PM   #1091
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Who is committing money and term to these guys?

Paul Byron just re-signed for a little over $1M. Jooris would likely cost less than a million for a one-year contract.

This is a team that just handed a grinder who gets pummeled in terms of possession a three-year $2.3 million AAV contract. Both Byron and Jooris are better than Bouma.

At the same time, they'll cost half that. That's exactly why I want them. Commit money and term to the likes of Gaudreau and Bennett, not bottom 6ers.

Byron has a manageable cap hit but got 3 years term and is 27 years old. I would rather not sign guys of that age to long term deals to be 4th line players. I like Byron and am happy for him but do not miss him at all.

Jooris is a bottom liner as well not going to regret moving him at all. If he signs for another 1 year deal I won't be mad but if we trade him for a 4th I will not be mad either.

Also not a fan of the Bouma contract and think he is a perfect example of giving money and term to a below average winger.

For me the problem with the flames going into the summer is the horrible money tied up in garbage players. Raymond, Bollig, Stajan, Wideman, Smid, Engellend, Bouma are chewing up big dollars where the team needs to add a top 4 D, 1-2 top 6 forwards, a starting goalie, and pay their star RFA's all with $24M
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Old 02-24-2016, 02:26 PM   #1092
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No, they aren't. Hockey is more than shot generation and shot suppression. Bouma is way more valuable than either of those guys.

Pretty sure Grant and Hathaway can replace Jooris since they looked as good or better than Jooris last training camp.
Valuable at warming a seat in the press box?
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Old 02-24-2016, 02:30 PM   #1093
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I think Friday we see a bunch of trades from CGY. In the middle of a short home stand and a few days for some of the key players to spend a bit of time with their families.
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Old 02-24-2016, 02:31 PM   #1094
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If we can't fall in love with replaceable bottom 6 players then the terrorists have won.
I'm not falling in love with anyone.

And this statement is only true if that bottom 6 player wants a bigger contract than his actual worth to the team (ie., Bouma).

Yes, I completely agree with the sentiment that no bottom 6 player is a core piece, and that they are replaceable.

But there's a difference between letting Brandon Bollig go to free agency and not Marcus Kruger. That's all I'm saying.

So far the Flames have not done well in this regard. Jooris will likely be cheaper to re-sign than he was last off-season. Not falling in love with these types of players is not the same as throwing them away when it's time to negotiate a contract.

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Old 02-24-2016, 02:33 PM   #1095
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Valuable at warming a seat in the press box?
I think you're drank
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Old 02-24-2016, 02:34 PM   #1096
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I'm not falling in love with anyone.

And this statement is only true if that bottom 6 player wants a bigger contract than his actual worth to the team (ie., Bouma).

Yes, I completely agree with the sentiment that no bottom 6 player is a core piece, and that they are replaceable.

But there's a difference between letting Brandon Bollig go to free agency and not Marcus Kruger. That's all I'm saying.

So far the Flames have not done well in this regard. Jooris will likely be cheaper to re-sign that he was last off-season.
Agree. Quality bottom six players on sub $1.5 mil contracts are going to matter a lot to this team in a little while (like next year or the one after).
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Old 02-24-2016, 02:35 PM   #1097
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Yeah. Just put whoever is tallest on his skates in there. That is how a real winning hockey team is built. Hockey is played with pucks, not numbers right? Stupid nerds.
Moneyball has not been proven to win championships yet. Let's use spreadsheets and graphs to evaluate players over watching them.

I am not a huge Russell fan but the guy was a beast against the Canucks in the playoffs last year and is a heart and soul warrior. The graph will show however that he is one of the worst players in the league.
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Old 02-24-2016, 02:36 PM   #1098
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Thing is, with Bouma, what do you do? He had a fantastic season last year and we all knew he wouldn't repeat it. But you can't enter negotiations with him going "you aren't scoring 16 goals next season, so here is your offer". You also can't just let him walk away, not after what he did. Sends out a poor message to the dressing room. So what choice do you have but to pay him over the odds? Yes, he is overpaid and it was a mistake by Treliving to pay him that much with that much term. But I don't see what choice he had?
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Old 02-24-2016, 02:40 PM   #1099
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Valuable at warming a seat in the press box?
How many times has Bouma been a healthy scratch this season? By my count, he's missed 34 due to injury and 1 for disciplinary reasons. He's played in 23 games. That adds up to 58 games, and the Flames have played 59, so he's been a healthy scratch once this season.

Jooris has played 40 and missed 1 for undisclosed reasons. That means he's been a healthy scratch 18 times.
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Old 02-24-2016, 02:43 PM   #1100
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If we can't fall in love with replaceable bottom 6 players then the terrorists have won.
I may have to make this my new signature. Made me actually Laugh Out Loud.
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