The Legend of Sam Bennett

[indes]

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

That's what I see as well, which is a heck of a lot better than what he would have been in Calgary. Seriously, 4th line winger deployment...WTF? Just insanely bad decision making.

The deployment was insane. Everyone piled on and mocked the Oilers for force feeding Draisaitl minutes and using him as a scoring star when he wasn't. Then lo and behold he broke out and became the star they were using him as.

Calgary has had a major problem with new blood coming in as they never want to give top 6 or top 4 spots to rookies unless they absolutely have to.

[Saqe]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Bolded part is spot on. If Bennett was going to be in the top 3 regularly, he had to blow Monahan out of the water, and he just wasn't able to do that. Monahan is useless playing down the line-up while Bennett could at least slot in anywhere. The real tragedy here is that the roster isn't flexible enough to give other players an opportunity without totally neutralizing guys like Monahan and Gaudreau that need to be on the top line to be useful.

This is another argument I don't understand. It makes no sense your first line players become totally useless if they have to slot down in the lineup and play against lesser competition. I know currently Monahan looks useless but I don't think anyone would have said that in the past. Like how is a player who's considered a low end #1 Center able to play first line minutes successfully but not able to play on your second or third line? The logic seems backwards.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

I wish it was possible to hide a thread. Don't get me wrong, I am not criticizing anyone for posting in it and I have the willpower to not post in it, but just seeing it on the front page is so demoralizing. It's just a constant reminder to how this whole season has been and sucks big time.

This and the Adam Fox thread. There aren't enough remote controls in the world to express my frustration.

I wish this too, mainly for threads where people have said all they are going to and it just ends up as a giant repetition. The arena thread is like that. Once people have said “not one penny of my tax dollars” or “the Flames can’t survive without an arena”, they end up just posting variations of that afterwards.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

It's a little frustrating that when Lindholm was being floated as top line center, Treliving didn't really find a way to convert Monahan into an asset we sorely needed (a speedy, expansion-exempt rhs top six winger... someone like Owen Tippett...). The trickle-down of such a trade would have been an opportunity for Bennett at center along with a much better talent distribution on the wing. Visualize something like

Tkachuk-Lindholm-Mangiapane
Gaudreau-Bennett-Tippett
Dube-Backlund-(random waiver wire claim who is better than Nordstrom... like Nikita Gusev)
Lucic-Ryan-Leivo

Maybe it's just me, but I feel like that roster would be playing a much faster style.

And allowed for a more sheltered scoring line, just like FLA is doing with Hube-Bennett.

Originally Posted by dino7c

Could have gone to Seattle and done this for a division rival and no two 2nds

I think 40-45 points next year is realistic and still really solid

I don't think many people are upset that the trade eventually happened; it's more about what could have happened from 2015-2020.

Originally Posted by djsFlames

He's put it together for 1/8th of a season.

Whatever your definition of 'succeeding' is, it certainly differs from mine at least.

Being a useful player when it matters, like in the playoffs.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Saqe

This is another argument I don't understand. It makes no sense your first line players become totally useless if they have to slot down in the lineup and play against lesser competition. I know currently Monahan looks useless but I don't think anyone would have said that in the past. Like how is a player who's considered a low end #1 Center able to play first line minutes successfully but not able to play on your second or third line? The logic seems backwards.

Monny looked good because he had a decent shot and was playing with a premium set up man, while getting all the premium ice time.

Once his shot disappeared, and he couldn’t play 1st line minutes, he’s just a passable NHL player.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Kovaz]

Originally Posted by Saqe

This is another argument I don't understand. It makes no sense your first line players become totally useless if they have to slot down in the lineup and play against lesser competition. I know currently Monahan looks useless but I don't think anyone would have said that in the past. Like how is a player who's considered a low end #1 Center able to play first line minutes successfully but not able to play on your second or third line? The logic seems backwards.

It makes sense because players can't be reduced down to a single description like "#1 Center." It's easy to fall into the trap of thinking that every player has some EA-sports overall rating, and no matter where you deploy him, Monahan is an 88 so he'll still perform well. In reality, most players have a more varied skillset, and their performance will vary accordingly based on how they're deployed. Monahan is able to put up a lot of points, when deployed in an offensive role next to an incredibly gifted playmaker. That doesn't guarantee anything when you take that away.

[GranteedEV]

For the record, I don't think Monahan "can't" play down the lineup.

But I'm pretty convinced he's not the kind of center you need. It doesn't matter if it's a big center of the Thornton/Malkin mould or a tiny fast center of the Datsyuk/Point mould, the center position requires players who are able to lug the play out of the defensive zone with the puck on their stick. Monahan's go-to breakout is
a stationary, ~40 foot stretch pass to his wingers. It worked when we had Brodie essentially doing those puck rushing duties as a defenseman, but now we need a traditional center.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

For the record, I don't think Monahan "can't" play down the lineup.

But I'm pretty convinced he's not the kind of center you need. It doesn't matter if it's a big center of the Thornton/Malkin mould or a tiny fast center of the Datsyuk/Point mould, the center position requires players who are able to lug the play out of the defensive zone with the puck on their stick. Monahan's go-to breakout is
a stationary, ~40 foot stretch pass to his wingers. It worked when we had Brodie essentially doing those puck rushing duties as a defenseman, but now we need a traditional center.

Monahan has put up two straight years of being an outright bad player in this league.

I question whether or not he can be an effective NHL’er anymore. Could be the mixture of injury history and already poor foot speed, but he’s not a top-6 forward at this stage and can’t keep his head above water.

Big off-season for him.

[Cycling76er]

Does this 12 year old forum software have a thread mute/hide/ignore feature that I'm missing?

Asking for a friend.

[AustinL_NHL]

Originally Posted by dino7c

lol...easy with the I told you so's

No "I told you so"..

I was super happy/surprised by the trade return but at the same time have always been 100% team Bennett and love seeing his haters silenced

[Strange Brew]

Yeah I think Monahan “could” slot down. But if he is not able to get into scoring positions and get off a quality shot, he won’t be effective. Because ultimately that’s his thing. And at $6.3 million you can’t slot him too far down either.

Thing is, he’s just not playing well. So doesn’t really matter where you put him right now.

[AC]

Originally Posted by Cycling76er

Does this 12 year old forum software have a thread mute/hide/ignore feature that I'm missing?

Asking for a friend.

I think step 1 is to not click on a thread with a title you aren't interested in.

[Calgary4LIfe]

I think it is awesome that Bennett is doing great in Florida. Yes, the sample size is small. Why is it awesome? Of course it is awesome for Bennett and Florida, but it should also be awesome for Calgary. Why?


Calgary just essentially 'gave away' a really good player. Many of us knew Bennett here - tough, fast, great teammate, sound defensively for the most part, and had underlying metrics that showed his skill (and showed him to be 'unlucky'). Treliving said it, Conroy said it, and heck, even Ward said it. So how did it fail?


I don't know, and you don't exactly know either. I mean, we KNOW Bennett didn't get that opportunity, but WHY he didn't get it remains a mystery. I base it on Gulutzan pigeon-holing him from the start. But that might not be accurate. Conroy was the one voice that kept saying (AFAIK) that Bennett both needed and deserved the opportunity to be a centre and have a lot of rope.


Why Bennett breaking out is specifically good for Calgary? Because it also shows that perhaps Monahan doesn't suddenly suck. Maybe Gaudreau's 99 point season wasn't an outlier, but an expected mark on his development cycle. Maybe Tkachuk didn't suddenly regress. Maybe this team isn't so feeble offensively, but there is something else at play?


I remember the Brent Sutter years well. I specifically remember a lot of people mindlessly regurgitating what Brent Sutter was saying - that the team couldn't score on the rush and needed to cycle and base everything off the boards. Heck, I remember Steinberg even being rude to a caller who stated that playing along the boards seemed to not be working, and that this team looked better off the rush. That caller was not wrong in hindsight - that team went on a bit of a run when they would start playing towards the middle of the ice and off the rush more - they were the oldest team in the NHL and one of the smallest, and Brent forced them to play off the boards. In 3 seasons, it didn't come close to working.


So is that part of the problem? If you watch Florida, they all play with significant pace to their game. I know Sutter has been preaching that too. I am hopeful that next season, that's how they come out (whomever may be left).


Hope Bennett excelling serves as a big wake-up call to this organization. Every time he scores a goal, has an assist, makes a hit, has a fight, makes a strong defensive play that gets lauded, keeps getting used as a face-off specialist, etc., that it makes little alarms go off for the training staff, assistant coaches, head coach, assistant GMs, GM, and up until the owners.


They had something here, but it slipped away. Why? And more importantly, who else may be slipping away?

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by indes

The deployment was insane. Everyone piled on and mocked the Oilers for force feeding Draisaitl minutes and using him as a scoring star when he wasn't. Then lo and behold he broke out and became the star they were using him as.

Calgary has had a major problem with new blood coming in as they never want to give top 6 or top 4 spots to rookies unless they absolutely have to.

Yeah Flames top six is so old

[GioforPM]

Even if it was agreed that Monahan could or would have slotted down, it was really only at some point mid last season that it even would have been considered. In fact, if someone said, prior to the Dallas POs “let’s break up the Gatorade line so we can try out Bennett” it would have been widely scorned. The same probably would even have applied to taking Backlund from between Mangiapane and Tkachuk.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Even if it was agreed that Monahan could or would have slotted down, it was really only at some point mid last season that it even would have been considered. In fact, if someone said, prior to the Dallas POs “let’s break up the Gatorade line so we can try out Bennett” it would have been widely scorned. The same probably would even have applied to taking Backlund from between Mangiapane and Tkachuk.

Well I guess if the fans would have been upset about trying a center who is 7 years younger with Tkachuk and Mangiapane then that is as good a reason as any for management and the coaches to avoid trying it.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by indes

The deployment was insane. Everyone piled on and mocked the Oilers for force feeding Draisaitl minutes and using him as a scoring star when he wasn't. Then lo and behold he broke out and became the star they were using him as.

Calgary has had a major problem with new blood coming in as they never want to give top 6 or top 4 spots to rookies unless they absolutely have to.

Draisaitl was always going to be a great player. You could see it even in his junior days. The raw power he possessed coupled with his vision, ability to make plays from his backhand, plus throw in that innate ability to protect and shield the puck. The puck always seemed to follow him too which is a good sign.

Draisaitl was always going to figure it out eventually, he just needed to fix his mobility and take some power skating classes. That was all that was missing. He had everything else.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

Draisaitl was always going to be a great player. You could see it even in his junior days. The raw power he possessed coupled with his vision, ability to make plays from his backhand, plus throw in that innate ability to protect and shield the puck. The puck always seemed to follow him too which is a good sign.

Draisaitl was always going to figure it out eventually, he just needed to fix his mobility and take some power skating classes. That was all that was missing. He had everything else.

The same could be said for Bennett as far as projecting to be a great player. It’s just the misery of his time in this incompetent organization that has people thinking otherwise. Bennett showed the potential he had in his rookie season, and after that the organization did what it did.

Hell, Bennett put up 8 points in 10 playoff games last year as a centre with Lucic and Dube. He proved he could perform at a high level at the most important time of the year in the most important position. This team then made no space for him and slammed him down the roster to start this season because they yet again doubled/tripled down the players that they always have (despite no success).

It’s just pure incompetence.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

Well I guess if the fans would have been upset about trying a center who is 7 years younger with Tkachuk and Mangiapane then that is as good a reason as any for management and the coaches to avoid trying it.

Well, the fans here seem to feel they are smarter than management, so why not listen?

Did Bennett ever impress you as a top 6 centre during his first 3-4 years? The issue is that the coaches were trying to win. So none of them, not even Hartley, wanted to do it.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

Draisaitl was always going to be a great player.

I doubt anyone was saying Draisaitl was going to be a great player around the time of January 4th 2015...not even Oilers fans.

Draisaitl was always going to figure it out eventually, he just needed to fix his mobility and take some power skating classes.

You say this as if all players just magically fix their mobility with power skating classes.