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Old 03-27-2024, 03:31 PM   #13941
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Sure people can be disappointed, no problem. They can wish and pray that there was a better option. But if, on election day, they see the two (three?) options and don’t consider Biden to be the better of them, and Biden loses, then yes it is on those voters.
I could say the same thing about PP in Canada, but the reality is that the Trudeau government has left open lanes for PP to take to victory.

You don't get to blame voters for your government underperforming in areas that are important to them.
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Old 03-27-2024, 03:32 PM   #13942
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People can have legitimate reasons for being disappointed in the Biden presidency. It doesn't mean they've been duped by the Trump propaganda machine.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1773069246441853027
This is the left setting up to blame Biden. If he loses it means he did not do enough to secure their vote. This is not only Democrat voters, Republican voters can also vote left (against Trump) if the policies are attractive. Biden would have failed to bring them over.
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Old 03-27-2024, 03:33 PM   #13943
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This the left blaming Biden. If he loses it means he did not do enough to secure their vote. This is not only Democrat voters, Republican voters can also vote left if the policies are attractive. Biden would have failed to bring them over.
Republican voters are insane, but if he can't win over independents, that's on him and the Democratic party.
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Old 03-27-2024, 03:35 PM   #13944
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Trump's campaign is winning the airwaves by what measure?

Time on air? This is due to ownership of networks concentrated in the hands of greedy rich ####s. I contest that it's actually winning here outside of a few demographics.

Approval rating? Trump's is still worse than Biden's.

Voting? So far, polling has been abjectly wrong and voting has gone largely in favor of democrats when opportunities arise.

I am curious what measure people are using to say that Trump is winning the airwaves, or media battle, or however you want to term it. I don't see that at all.
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Old 03-27-2024, 03:41 PM   #13945
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I'll give an example of something I came across the other day. Biden is losing ground with working class blacks and latinos. One of the reasons for that is immigration, but it's not because these folks are racist. It's because lower income communities are the ones that bear the bulk of the burden of supporting incoming, undocumented migrants.

The example I saw was a black community organizer speaking about rebuilding their community, upgrading community centres to provide after school programs for youth, sports facilities, etc. Now said community centres are being used to house migrants and the community feels like it's back to square one in terms of having to raise the funds and do all of that work again without any support from the federal government.

Their argument is that, if housing migrants is such an important issue to wealthy, educated, white liberals, why aren't they being housed in upper class, predominantly white communities, which have way more resources to house them? The dude said that, while he's not going to vote for Trump, this issue was causing anger to be directed towards the migrants and thus pushing black voters in the community into the Trump camp.
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Old 03-27-2024, 04:31 PM   #13946
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I would also add that the "vote Democrat or else" line of argument only works for so long. Democrats obviously aren't going to win every single election until the end of time. So if you continually position them losing the Presidency as the end of democracy in the US, then that just makes it an inevitability which breeds apathy.

Look at reproductive rights for instance. People will fight for that, but if voting Democrat doesn't actually accomplish anything that won't just be overturned when the Republicans get into power, what are people fighting for? At best you're just delaying the inevitable, which means people who aren't particularly enthusiastic for Biden will probably just stay home.

Sure if you dig down you can say that long-term change requires the courts and voting Democrat will lead to more progressive courts. But the average voter really doesn't think in those terms. And even if they do, recent history doesn't really bear that out. Republicans have only held the Presidency for 12 of the last 32 years, but they've named 6 of the 9 Supreme Court justices.
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Old 03-27-2024, 04:44 PM   #13947
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Originally Posted by rubecube View Post
I could say the same thing about PP in Canada, but the reality is that the Trudeau government has left open lanes for PP to take to victory.

You don't get to blame voters for your government underperforming in areas that are important to them.
These things are not like the other. Trudeau has basically done nothing as a leader. Biden has a pretty impressive list of accomplishments, but he has failed in being assertive about these things and has not solved immigration(like every president before him).
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Old 03-27-2024, 05:07 PM   #13948
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Originally Posted by rubecube View Post
I'll give an example of something I came across the other day. Biden is losing ground with working class blacks and latinos. One of the reasons for that is immigration, but it's not because these folks are racist. It's because lower income communities are the ones that bear the bulk of the burden of supporting incoming, undocumented migrants.

The example I saw was a black community organizer speaking about rebuilding their community, upgrading community centres to provide after school programs for youth, sports facilities, etc. Now said community centres are being used to house migrants and the community feels like it's back to square one in terms of having to raise the funds and do all of that work again without any support from the federal government.

Their argument is that, if housing migrants is such an important issue to wealthy, educated, white liberals, why aren't they being housed in upper class, predominantly white communities, which have way more resources to house them? The dude said that, while he's not going to vote for Trump, this issue was causing anger to be directed towards the migrants and thus pushing black voters in the community into the Trump camp.
I know you don't like him and you probably won't even watch the video but Bill Maher touched on this subject very well about 18 months ago:
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Old 03-27-2024, 05:24 PM   #13949
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Over the last number of years, I've found that I disagree with Maher a lot more than I used to, but I'll still watch his takes instead of cutting him off completely solely because I've found that I disagree with many of their takes. Cutting consumption out completely of anyone who has a different view from you on things is exactly the trouble that America is in and what Obama also warned about as he left office, with people being in echo chambers. And people from both sides of the aisle are equally as convinced with equal amounts of conviction that the channel from that other side is not even worth looking at. Extremely interesting to observe.
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Old 03-27-2024, 07:59 PM   #13950
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Interesting take on the RNC since Trump loyalists took control. Say no and say goodbye to a job.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1772941348741529927
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