John Stevens Shares Darryl Sutter Stories

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Gudbranson might just feel senior enough and trust Sutter enough to have back and forth discussions on the bench. Which aren’t bitching or pouting, just on the job communications.

It’s been one of the big fan knocks on MacKinnon for a long time. Turns out he and Bednar have a great relationship, and he’s just firey.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Scroopy Noopers

It’s been one of the big fan knocks on MacKinnon for a long time. Turns out he and Bednar have a great relationship, and he’s just firey.

That’s what I’m thinking. “Into the game” Gud and “Angry Gud” probably look similar. Plus he seems pretty smart and might think he’s got something to contribute more than “OK coach”.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Scroopy Noopers

It’s been one of the big fan knocks on MacKinnon for a long time. Turns out he and Bednar have a great relationship, and he’s just firey.

Yup, MacKinnon is essentially an assistant coach.

[rohara66]

Originally Posted by Buff

I think nearly everyone in today's NHL would have quit on Hartley.

Latest Spittin' Chiclets interview is with Scott Parker (former Avs tough guy) who was coached by Hartley and he confirmed that Hartley is a scum bag. Just like nearly everyone else that has ever played for him.

[saillias]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Oh, they quit on Hartley. They were not a good team either, but they quit, and they complained to the GM about him as well.

Yes because Hartley is a terrible coach and it's an embarrassment he lasted as long as he did.

Years ago Cory Sarich explained on the Fan 960 what a nightmare it was for the defense - Hartley would not allow the D to pass the puck backwards in their own zone. and the opposing forwards knew it so they had less options and would make riskier plays, turning the puck over more often.

[Strange Brew]

Exhibit 1 for why you shouldn’t form an opinion on an athlete’s character based on their media interactions.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

So two coaches that deserved to be quit on. I look at it a little differently, these guys are pros and it is their livelihood.

I would say that as humans, no they didn't deserve to be quit on. A better way of phrasing it might be that their performance lost the confidence of the players, and the effort feedback loop was predictable, not an indictment of the players.

[Buff]

Originally Posted by rohara66

Latest Spittin' Chiclets interview is with Scott Parker (former Avs tough guy) who was coached by Hartley and he confirmed that Hartley is a scum bag. Just like nearly everyone else that has ever played for him.

Scott Parker has not been shy with sharing his disdain for Hartley and it isn't just a Scott Parker thing.

There have been other suggestions about players not liking Hartley.

One that I recall specifically was Boomer on the radio one morning. I don't recall if it was just after Hartley was fired or maybe it was sometime during Gulutzan's tenure. Anyway, Boomer had a very passionate response to how bad it was in the end of Hartley's tenure and without outright saying Hartley was a bully was saying that Hartley was a bully and that there is no longer room for a coach like him.

We the fans loved Hartley's press conferences just like we all love Darryl's press conferences so I can understand how some fans may think Hartley should get another shot in the NHL. However the difference is in the stories you hear from former players and coaches. Some guys don't like Darryl either but you'll get an abundance of stories from players and coaches about how great of a guy Darryl is. The positive spins on Hartley are few and far between. Darryl is genuinely loved, even by some players who didn't like playing for a demanding coach.

[Galakanokis]

Tkachuk planned his exit when he signed that deal three of four years ago. He even alludes to it in his interview. Something along the lines of signing it with the intentions of setting himself for this very scenario. He was leaving regardless of season outcome and coach. I don't think he ever wanted to stay. No ill will that is his right and honestly I think the Flames made out just fine in the end.

Gaudreau? Honestly don't care. My gut says he ####ed up and took what he could but I don't think he ages well on that contract so glad we are not saddled with it. And it was his right to move along. No ill will there as well. He was a great and entertaining Flame while he was here. Good enough for me.

Gudbranson took the money and ran. No way the Flames or anyone else for that matter were giving him that kind of money and term. Loved the guy here but man that is a big risk to ask for a mediocre defenseman. I take nothing away from his time here as he was a great Flame but I am glad we dodged that contract.

Sutter is tough to play for there are no doubts about that. But the guy has won everywhere he has coached and that trumps all. I like him and hope he signs an extension to stay on for a year or two more. He's honest, maybe a little too brutally so but he wants you and the team to succeed and tells you what he thinks you need to hear to get there. Some players can except that and others cannot.

[boogerz]

Originally Posted by Buff

Scott Parker has not been shy with sharing his disdain for Hartley and it isn't just a Scott Parker thing.

There have been other suggestions about players not liking Hartley.

One that I recall specifically was Boomer on the radio one morning. I don't recall if it was just after Hartley was fired or maybe it was sometime during Gulutzan's tenure. Anyway, Boomer had a very passionate response to how bad it was in the end of Hartley's tenure and without outright saying Hartley was a bully was saying that Hartley was a bully and that there is no longer room for a coach like him.

We the fans loved Hartley's press conferences just like we all love Darryl's press conferences so I can understand how some fans may think Hartley should get another shot in the NHL. However the difference is in the stories you hear from former players and coaches. Some guys don't like Darryl either but you'll get an abundance of stories from players and coaches about how great of a guy Darryl is. The positive spins on Hartley are few and far between. Darryl is genuinely loved, even by some players who didn't like playing for a demanding coach.

Seems like most of the criticism of Hartley comes from low-skilled grinder-types (no offense to Sarich) that aren't well-suited for the up-tempo, rushing style of game that Hartley coaches. He could very well be a bully, but I wouldn't put too much stock in one-sided stories/testimonials from specific typecast of player. Hartley is a good coach that has a lot of similarities to Sutter with respect to demeanor.

Although, it's a great thing that Sutter is even better coach with no history of being a bully

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by boogerz

Seems like most of the criticism of Hartley comes from low-skilled grinder-types (no offense to Sarich) that aren't well-suited for the up-tempo, rushing style of game that Hartley coaches. He could very well be a bully, but I wouldn't put too much stock in one-sided stories/testimonials from specific typecast of player. Hartley is a good coach that has a lot of similarities to Sutter with respect to demeanor.

Although, it's a great thing that Sutter is even better coach with no history of being a bully

Wasn’t Sutter accused of kicking a player in the back before? I’m not saying he is or ever was a bully, but I think coaches in general get away with things that would be considered abusive in most work environments.

As for Hartley, I get Sarich’s criticism about tactics. Parker’s stories are nothing. He threatened to have him sent to the minors if he didn’t do what he was supposed to. If Parker was too injured to play, he should have sat out. Better yet, management should have put him on IR. He wasn’t and Hartley was expected to play him.

[mile]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Wasn’t Sutter accused of kicking a player in the back before? I’m not saying he is or ever was a bully, but I think coaches in general get away with things that would be considered abusive in most work environments.

Sutter denied it when he got hired and said that honestly and truth always prevails.

That came from Carcillo who has a sketchy history (wore Nazi symbols, got exposed by Bissonette for calling him the n-word in the minors), and no one has corroborated those accusations.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by boogerz

Seems like most of the criticism of Hartley comes from low-skilled grinder-types (no offense to Sarich) that aren't well-suited for the up-tempo, rushing style of game that Hartley coaches. He could very well be a bully, but I wouldn't put too much stock in one-sided stories/testimonials from specific typecast of player. Hartley is a good coach that has a lot of similarities to Sutter with respect to demeanor.

Although, it's a great thing that Sutter is even better coach with no history of being a bully

The skill guys on Calgary also hated Hartley.

Sutter is completely different from Hartley. Sutter is no nonsense but he’s up front and the same way with everyone, while Hartley was Mr. Jovial good times with media and an a-hole to his players. A lot of mind games.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

The skill guys on Calgary also hated Hartley.

Sutter is completely different from Hartley. Sutter is no nonsense but he’s up front and the same way with everyone, while Hartley was Mr. Jovial good times with media and an a-hole to his players. A lot of mind games.

The impression I get about Sutter is that he is really good at turning it off and on. He knows when to push buttons and knows when to lay off. And he always separates the player from the person and doesn’t make stuff personal. I have heard stories about players running into Sutter in the off-season or after they retired and how nice he was outside of the work environment. I have no doubt that Sutter genuinely cares about people, but his job is to drive players.

[Buff]

Originally Posted by mile

Sutter denied it when he got hired and said that honestly and truth always prevails.

That came from Carcillo who has a sketchy history (wore Nazi symbols, got exposed by Bissonette for calling him the n-word in the minors), and no one has corroborated those accusations.

Didn't Carcillo post a pic claiming something bad about Brent Sutter and/or the Red Deer Rebels but it turned out that pic was of players who n gender even played in the WHL or maybe even the CHL?

[Buff]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

The skill guys on Calgary also hated Hartley.

Sutter is completely different from Hartley. Sutter is no nonsense but he’s up front and the same way with everyone, while Hartley was Mr. Jovial good times with media and an a-hole to his players. A lot of mind games.

One thing you had a lot about Sutter from players is that they always know what he expects and where they stand. That says a lot.

[Calgary4LIfe]

Can't quote you GioForPM:


I still haven't seen any of the skilled players actually talk about it. That's all been rumours AFAIK.



The only Flame under Hartley that I know really spoke out against him was Sarich, and his stories mostly seemed like a guy who was winding out of the league, but wouldn't accept it.



I think 'where there's smoke, there's fire', but unless more people come out ON THE RECORD than Sarich and Parker (and his story is even more of a nothing-burger as what else was Hartley supposed to do with him?), my summary of Hartley is as follows:


Hartley is a coach who probably has a short shelf-life, but who does get the most out of his teams. However, he doesn't cross that line - nothing has been thrown Hartley's way after the 'me-too' movement in hockey coaching, and Hartley has coached a LOT of players.


Lost in all of this is players who liked Hartley - like Tanguay. I do find it difficult to believe that Gaudreau had an issue with him, as he showed up to Hartley's camps even after Hartley was sacked.



I am not saying that Treliving wasn't right to let him go based on the players getting tired of him (shorter shelf-life), but I haven't heard or read anything about Hartley going over the line. He also seemed to generally care for players (like Ferland at the time of his struggles).

[GioforPM]

The complaints were reportedly in end of year player-management interviews. As for Johnny attending camps, what can one say? He was asked and he showed. Not a similar situation to begin with and maybe he hoped to better the relationship.

I can’t believe you haven’t heard or read any more about Hartley than Parker (which was not a nothing burger given his health) and Sarich. I mean, reportedly players have had Hartley own their no trade clauses. But I guess the end proof is in the fact a guy who has a cup ring has not had a sniff in the NHL since he was fired.

[GioforPM]

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calga...tley-1.3564964

Tie Domi called him a bush league coach whose players didn’t respect him way back in 2005.

Shane O’Brien said he bullied Baertschi.

And this:

https://fb.watch/eRlNfpj6SW/?fs=e&s=cl

[jayswin]

Yeah, I remember lots of stuff coming out but didn't have the energy to go looking.