Coronavirus All Purpose Thread: moving on?

[MoneyGuy]

Originally Posted by activeStick

Very bad situation in Australia right now.





https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...several-states

Oh oh. Headed there in December. I’ll watch that one closely and check with friends we’ll be seeing.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Sidney Crosby's Hat

Could be what we have in store for the winter, though also perhaps not as we have more natural immunity than Australia (or NZ).

Do we post Omicron? They had a let it rip strategy at that point.

The other thing to note is they also have a concurrent flu issue. Given all the preventative Covid measures were killing the much less contagious flu virus without them flu came back.

The messaging should start coming out now to plan boosters and flu shots for sept/Oct/Nov

[Fuzz]

I think the message is we need to work incredibly fast to bolster our healthcare system before another wave hits. I have no idea how we do that this late in the game.

[Inglewood Jack]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

I think the message is we need to work incredibly fast to bolster our healthcare system before another wave hits. I have no idea how we do that this late in the game.

once Danielle Smith attains official Premiership, I assume this will be at the top of her list of pre-election items.

[calgarygeologist]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

I think the message is we need to work incredibly fast to bolster our healthcare system before another wave hits. I have no idea how we do that this late in the game.

Bolstering or fixing our healthcare system is not going to happen in the short term. We don't have the human capital to make that happen.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by calgarygeologist

Bolstering or fixing our healthcare system is not going to happen in the short term. We don't have the human capital to make that happen.

OK, so what's the plan? Do nothing and hope they don't all quit if we get hit by another wave?

[calgarygeologist]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

OK, so what's the plan? Do nothing and hope they don't all quit if we get hit by another wave?

I don't know what the plan should be. I guess it is possible to provide some sort of bonus structure or increase wages to keep current healthcare professionals from leaving but that only solves one problem. That doesn't address burnout or retirement. Even if the government's provided a huge increase in healthcare funding it won't really help with staffing shortages. Do we want the provinces to get into a poaching war for workers where we are just cannibalising our neighbours? What incentives and regulatory changes are required in our system to get workers from the US or Europe or elsewhere?

[Fuzz]

They should be working as hard as possible to free up room in the system. Things like home care and opening more senior care spaces. Be more flexible with urgent care clinics outside the ER. Get people out of the hospital that don't need to be there.

Frankly though, this is a result of our population voting for the same idiots who keep making it worse. We are 2 years into this, and are worse off than when we started. There is zero excuse for this, particularly given our massive surpluses we have which could be used to fix problems.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

They should be working as hard as possible to free up room in the system. Things like home care and opening more senior care spaces. Be more flexible with urgent care clinics outside the ER. Get people out of the hospital that don't need to be there.

Frankly though, this is a result of our population voting for the same idiots who keep making it worse. We are 2 years into this, and are worse off than when we started. There is zero excuse for this, particularly given our massive surpluses we have which could be used to fix problems.

Hey at least you didn’t re-elect him to an even larger majority government while your province was experiencing rolling emergency room closures province wide, due to staffing.

- Ontario, we just need one more highway.

[Lubicon]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

They should be working as hard as possible to free up room in the system. Things like home care and opening more senior care spaces. Be more flexible with urgent care clinics outside the ER. Get people out of the hospital that don't need to be there.

Frankly though, this is a result of our population voting for the same idiots who keep making it worse. We are 2 years into this, and are worse off than when we started. There is zero excuse for this, particularly given our massive surpluses we have which could be used to fix problems.

Pretty much every other province is in the same situation. It has less to do with our provincial governments and more to do with the structure of our health care system. I don't know what the answer is either, we can't magically create new workers out of thin air and throwing more and more money at the system has been repeatedly proven to not be the answer either.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Lubicon

Pretty much every other province is in the same situation. It has less to do with our provincial governments and more to do with the structure of our health care system. I don't know what the answer is either, we can't magically create new workers out of thin air and throwing more and more money at the system has been repeatedly proven to not be the answer either.

It's not that throwing money at it won't fix it, it's that we refuse to spend money where it would help. We thrown money at paying OT and panic care instead of fundamentally fixing what is broken. Have other provinces also done that? Of course. But how many decades are we going to carry on following the same failed strategy?

Did we even try to expand enrolment over the past 2 years? Yes, in May of 2022!

https://www.alberta.ca/article-suppo...new-seats.aspx

Are 1338 additional spaces in nursing and 1090 in health care aids enough to make a difference? According to this article:

https://globalnews.ca/news/8647630/a...rsing-burnout/

There are 929 unfulfilled postings in Alberta. Yet we added funding for 3496 new "Business Admin & Management". I look at this and question just how committed our province is to avoiding disaster.

[calgarygeologist]

There is a significant shift in healthcare that is required right now that no one in Canada has really prepared for which is a result of the aging boomer population. They are leaving the workforce which is creating a significant gap and they are also increasingly demanding more care which the healthcare system is not able to provide. The pandemic was hard on resources but longer term that aging population while provide continuous strain. We need to make large improvements in areas like home care, nursing homes and palliative care.

[Azure]

Provinces can't even figure out how they'll spend funds from the Federal Government that is literally sitting there waiting to be approved for health care spending.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by Azure

Provinces can't even figure out how they'll spend funds from the Federal Government that is literally sitting there waiting to be approved for health care spending.

Im sure they could figure it out. They just don’t care enough to put in the effort.

[Firebot]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

They should be working as hard as possible to free up room in the system. Things like home care and opening more senior care spaces. Be more flexible with urgent care clinics outside the ER. Get people out of the hospital that don't need to be there.

Frankly though, this is a result of our population voting for the same idiots who keep making it worse. We are 2 years into this, and are worse off than when we started. There is zero excuse for this, particularly given our massive surpluses we have which could be used to fix problems.

BC has just as many problems as Alberta or Ontario. It's so bad that hospitals outside of major centres have their ER shut for large parts of the week, requiring patients of these hospital to be diverted elsewhere, some over 100km away.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/briti...ysis-1.6522490

This isn't a conservative problem as you want to portray it, it's a systemic Canada wide staffing problem that covid simply put a magnifying glass to.

It needs to be done from the education level onwards. Grants, etc, importing nurses and doctors from other countries. More capacity doesn't fix staffing issues, people need to be enticed into nursing and medical practices, while the boomer population gets older. Status quo just won't work.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Firebot

BC has just as many problems as Alberta or Ontario. It's so bad that hospitals outside of major centres have their ER shut for large parts of the week, requiring patients of these hospital to be diverted elsewhere, some over 100km away.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/briti...ysis-1.6522490

This isn't a conservative problem as you want to portray it, it's a systemic Canada wide staffing problem that covid simply put a magnifying glass to.

It needs to be done from the education level onwards. Grants, etc, importing nurses and doctors from other countries. More capacity doesn't fix staffing issues, people need to be enticed into nursing and medical practices, while the boomer population gets older. Status quo just won't work.

Assuming good pay and work conditions are high on that list that entice people to jobs, which is the opposite of what has been happening for decades. Perhaps if we hadn't been so eager to fill hockey arenas, we'd have a bit less burnout. But I know how that suggestion went over this winter with people around these parts.

[CliffFletcher]

This isn’t just an Alberta problem. Or even a Canadian problem. The developed West is facing a reckoning that public policy experts and economists have been warning about for decades - demographics that put an ever-increasing strain on delivering public services.

But voters don’t want to hear that message. Older voters are hostile to any suggestion that they’re a burden on the public purse, or that they haven’t paid sufficient taxes to cover their needs, while younger voters wonder why they should have to foot the bill for older generations. And most prefer to see the shortfall of resources as a consequence of their political enemies cutting funding, or needless waste that can be easily cleaned up, rather than acknowledge that both spending and demands on the health care system are climbing relentlessly.

It’s tempting to believe the problem will be solved by simply voting against politicians you hate. The reality is that maintaining health care standards for our aging population will require more money (higher taxes for everyone), systemic reform of training and delivery that will piss off a lot of stakeholders, and will take decades. It will be a test of whether long-term, bipartisan, systemic reform is even possible in today’s political climate.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

This isn’t just an Alberta problem. Or even a Canadian problem. The developed West is facing a reckoning that public policy experts and economists have been warning about for decades - demographics that put an ever-increasing strain on delivering public services.

But voters don’t want to hear that message. Older voters are hostile to any suggestion that they’re a burden on the public purse, or that they haven’t paid sufficient taxes to cover their needs, while younger voters wonder why they should have to foot the bill for older generations. And most prefer to see the shortfall of resources as a consequence of their political enemies cutting funding, or needless waste that can be easily cleaned up, rather than acknowledge that both spending and demands on the health care system are climbing relentlessly.

It’s tempting to believe the problem will be solved by simply voting against politicians you hate. The reality is that maintaining health care standards for our aging population will require more money (higher taxes for everyone), systemic reform of training and delivery that will piss off a lot of stakeholders, and will take decades. It will be a test of whether long-term, bipartisan, systemic reform is even possible in today’s political climate.

Busted! You're right, that's exactly what people are doing. I'm planning on voting for NDP over UCP just because I don't like the personalities in the UCP and I enjoy pretending NDP will have better policies because I like the people more.

Good grief, Cliff.

Are you suggesting all political parties approach healthcare spending/expected outcomes the exact same way? Is it possible some parties have better plans for addressing the healthcare crisis than others? Is it also possible some people prefer to cast their vote in the direction of parties that offer the best chance of improving the healthcare system over parties that prioritize other spending (e.g. billion dollar pipeline projects that are obviously doomed to fail)? Maybe some of us like parties with a backbone that will not adjust public health mandates to placate redneck rallies?

[Azure]

Its not just a matter of spending more money. I think the debacle with the feds having money available but the provinces not being willing to have a plan in place is a good indication of how much detail is going into making sure health care spending is being done properly.

Otherwise Cliff is 100% correct. We've seen this coming for many years. Now we're billions in debt, massive inflation, heading into a recession, a crumbling health care system that is severely underfunded and performing poorly, and there is no way the populace will accept raising taxes.

One thing I know for sure, with all those issues, I sure as hell wouldn't allow the ruling party to stay in power for another election.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Sliver

Busted! You're right, that's exactly what people are doing. I'm planning on voting for NDP over UCP just because I don't like the personalities in the UCP and I enjoy pretending NDP will have better policies because I like the people more.

Good grief, Cliff.

Are you suggesting all political parties approach healthcare spending/expected outcomes the exact same way? Is it possible some parties have better plans for addressing the healthcare crisis than others? Is it also possible some people prefer to cast their vote in the direction of parties that offer the best chance of improving the healthcare system over parties that prioritize other spending (e.g. billion dollar pipeline projects that are obviously doomed to fail)? Maybe some of us like parties with a backbone that will not adjust public health mandates to placate redneck rallies?

I’m saying an aging population and shortage of health care workers is a huge problem in Alberta, and in B.C., Ontario, Quebec, and Nova Scotia. And it’s a huge problem regardless of which party is in power. It’s a huge problem in Canada, and in the UK, Australia, and France. And it will still be in a huge problem in all those places in a decade.

The internet is your window to the world, Sliver. Use it to gain some perspective. The problem is way bigger and deeper rooted than you want to believe. This is a crisis of the aging, Western world.

Quarter of GP posts ‘could be vacant within decade’ as alarm raised over shortages

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-b2112630.html

French health professionals strike against staff shortage

Unions claim workers under tremendous personal strain as government ignores demands of additional recruitment, salary hikes

https://www.aa.com.tr/en/europe/fren...ortage/2607785

The pandemic has taken its toll on Australian nurses, and now hospitals are scrambling for staff

https://thenewdaily.com.au/news/nati...sis-australia/

Operations likely to be cancelled as German hospital doctors strike

https://www.thelocal.de/20220331/can...-go-on-strike/