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Old 08-13-2022, 10:23 PM   #381
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Not really… the sole reason for the series loss was Markstrom couldn’t stop a beach ball, nothing more than that
It was much more than Markstrom having a bad series.

It's not like they completely shut the Oilers down and they just scored on the few chances they got. They completely abandoned the system that made them successful all year and got sucked into playing pond hockey. They were giving up odd man rushes like candy.
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Old 08-14-2022, 07:11 AM   #382
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It was much more than Markstrom having a bad series.

It's not like they completely shut the Oilers down and they just scored on the few chances they got. They completely abandoned the system that made them successful all year and got sucked into playing pond hockey. They were giving up odd man rushes like candy.
They also abandoned their tight checking because it was obvious that series would not be officiated to the same standard as their previous one. They tried to stay out of the box, which obviously also didn’t work.
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Old 08-14-2022, 07:30 AM   #383
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No. Thats overly simplistic.

Markstrom didnt go from one of the best goalies in the playoffs in the Dallas series to hot garbage overnight.

First thing, I think we're really under-rating the loss of Tanev that completely unspooled our defence. A huge part of the trade to acquire Weegar so there is an experienced and competent defenceman available.

You are correct, Markstrom wasnt good, but they also hung him out to dry and the rest of the D-Corps....its like they forgot how to hockey.

That was insane and frankly, I'm disappointed Sutter didnt clamp down on that and change strategy.
He kind of did though. That was the worst playoff goaltending performance from a Flames goaltender in decades and the numbers back it up. I get that the team didn't play the style of hockey that made them successful but I don't think it really mattered as Markstrom for whatever reason has issues when facing the Oilers which dates back to his time as a Canuck. Flames had no chance in that series the way Markstrom played.
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Old 08-14-2022, 08:26 AM   #384
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Yeah, Markstrom gave the Oilers back some confidence in game one by letting in really awful goals. The rest of the series wasn't as bad, but he was playing well below the level of round one. He did make some great saves and wasn't all bad, but he was enough bad that the hole was too deep. Round one Markstrom showing up for round two would have changed the series.
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Old 08-14-2022, 08:44 AM   #385
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Yeah, Markstrom gave the Oilers back some confidence in game one by letting in really awful goals. The rest of the series wasn't as bad, but he was playing well below the level of round one. He did make some great saves and wasn't all bad, but he was enough bad that the hole was too deep. Round one Markstrom showing up for round two would have changed the series.
Exactly it. He cratered in the first two games, starting period 2 of game 1. That gave the Oilers confidence. Then it just spiraled because he couldn't fully reel it in again.

Series are about swings in confidence & momentum. If Markstrom had shut the door in game 1 while the Flames poured it on it could have led to four straight in a classic Oilers sweep.

The fact that the Oilers realized they could catch us sleeping in the neutral zone and capitalize almost at will just changed the whole complexion of things where it looked to be going to script as the Flames being the heavy favourite early on.

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Old 08-14-2022, 08:49 AM   #386
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He kind of did though. That was the worst playoff goaltending performance from a Flames goaltender in decades and the numbers back it up. I get that the team didn't play the style of hockey that made them successful but I don't think it really mattered as Markstrom for whatever reason has issues when facing the Oilers which dates back to his time as a Canuck. Flames had no chance in that series the way Markstrom played.
The series loss is more Daryl Sutters fault then anyone. Before the series every interview he kept repeating " You can't take penalties". It appears to me the flames were listening and just stood around watching. And everyone in the country could see Vladar shoud have got time in net because of Markstroms play and record against Edmonton in the first game and regular season.
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Old 08-14-2022, 12:22 PM   #387
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The series loss is more Daryl Sutters fault then anyone. Before the series every interview he kept repeating " You can't take penalties". It appears to me the flames were listening and just stood around watching. And everyone in the country could see Vladar shoud have got time in net because of Markstroms play and record against Edmonton in the first game and regular season.
I’m agreeing with this. It isn’t like baseball where you call in a field player when you run out of goalies. Flames had options in net.

Flames didn’t make enough adjustments and the Beav didn’t have to make any.

In fairness though the Beav rode mike smith so hard that Smith has to go on LTIR for the entire next season.
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Old 08-14-2022, 02:31 PM   #388
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The series loss is more Daryl Sutters fault then anyone. Before the series every interview he kept repeating " You can't take penalties". It appears to me the flames were listening and just stood around watching. And everyone in the country could see Vladar shoud have got time in net because of Markstroms play and record against Edmonton in the first game and regular season.
Love Sutter but I agree about Vladar.

I think Sutter painted himself into a corner buy saying a week or so earlier that if you use 2 goalies in the playoffs you're doing it wrong. Made me laugh at the time, but it's one of those old school things that I don't think has left his brain.

Markstrom was burnt out after Dallas. He needed a game or two off and was totally comfortable with Vladar against the Oil.
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Old 08-14-2022, 02:49 PM   #389
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I hope Sutter revised his ideology around goalies in the playoffs after that exit.

Shouldn't be so written in stone. I'd play Vladar more this year so that 1) You have a better idea if you can trust him in a desperation scenario, and 2) So Markstrom is fresher come playoffs.

There's probably a coin flip chance we see team pond hockey again so i hope we're better prepared and more healthy.
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Old 08-14-2022, 02:58 PM   #390
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I would try playing Vladar against the Oilers during the regular season, if he beat them, start him again. Hopefully, he can plant seed of doubt in their heads.
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Old 08-14-2022, 03:10 PM   #391
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I would try playing Vladar against the Oilers during the regular season, if he beat them, start him again. Hopefully, he can plant seed of doubt in their heads.
Sutter got stuck doing something he usually doesn't do "adapt".. I was as surprised as many that Vladar didn't get more opportunity in that series.
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Old 08-14-2022, 03:14 PM   #392
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Or just use some common sense. That was one of the all time chokes and everyone knew it. Sutter wouldn't adjust and gave away the series.
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Old 08-14-2022, 03:21 PM   #393
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Lots had to go wrong for the flames to lose that series. Was going to post my top 3 reasons the flames lost but can't narrow it down. I will however say that Darryl sutter's coaching isn't in my top 5.
1. Reffing, flames were absolutely screwed here
2. Tanev injury
3. Markstrom losing confidence
4. Hanifin directly causing multiple goals against and odd-numbered rushes per game.
5. Tkachuk no-show
6. Sutters lack of adjustments
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Old 08-14-2022, 03:29 PM   #394
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Another had to go wrong for the flames to lose that series. Was going to post my top 3 reasons the flames lost but can't narrow it down. I will however say that Darryl sutter's coaching isn't in my top 5.
1. Reffing, flames were absolutely screwed here
2. Tanev injury
3. Markstrom losing confidence
4. Hanifin directly causing multiple goals against and odd-numbered rushes per game.
5. Tkachuk no-show
6. Sutters lack of adjustments
Hopefully with the addition of Weegar we can shelter playoff Hanifin.

Everything that could go wrong did, about 30 minutes into the series onward. A slow train wreck.

No doubt that the Flames slumped though. It wasn't an exhibit of each teams best. That was the Flames C game and Marky's D game.

Partly a banged up defense, partly too proud of their 1 series win? They all just looked.. complacent. Like they thought they could just score 9 every night and not worry about their end.

The team defense was completely absent. Also gave their forwards too much space and respect. They did a bad job of showing their disdain for that team. No big time hits after game 1 (well no hits on McDavid).

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Old 08-14-2022, 03:34 PM   #395
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Originally Posted by Kipper_3434 View Post
Lots had to go wrong for the flames to lose that series. Was going to post my top 3 reasons the flames lost but can't narrow it down. I will however say that Darryl sutter's coaching isn't in my top 5.
1. Reffing, flames were absolutely screwed here
2. Tanev injury
3. Markstrom losing confidence
4. Hanifin directly causing multiple goals against and odd-numbered rushes per game.
5. Tkachuk no-show
6. Sutters lack of adjustments
I hate when refs are blamed for a loss. Its lazy….most of the time.

Fairly obvious what was going on in that series however. Its rare the refs are truly a big difference as made to be but it was in this series.

See the next round when the team that beat #2 seed in 5 games got run out of the rink by the #1 seed.
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Old 08-14-2022, 03:54 PM   #396
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It was much more than Markstrom having a bad series.

It's not like they completely shut the Oilers down and they just scored on the few chances they got. They completely abandoned the system that made them successful all year and got sucked into playing pond hockey. They were giving up odd man rushes like candy.
Still, Markstrom had an almost legendarily bad series. It can't be understated. And it's impossible to win with that save percentage.
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Old 08-14-2022, 03:55 PM   #397
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Originally Posted by Kipper_3434 View Post
Lots had to go wrong for the flames to lose that series. Was going to post my top 3 reasons the flames lost but can't narrow it down. I will however say that Darryl sutter's coaching isn't in my top 5.
1. Reffing, flames were absolutely screwed here
2. Tanev injury
3. Markstrom losing confidence
4. Hanifin directly causing multiple goals against and odd-numbered rushes per game.
5. Tkachuk no-show
6. Sutters lack of adjustments
Well no, a simple goalie change could've won the series. The Oilers were not good. They were a fragile team on a high. One save could've made a big difference, but we never got it.
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Old 08-14-2022, 04:01 PM   #398
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All these excuses just look bad. If Oilers fans were making them, we would be absolutely roasting them. At the end of the day, the Oilers top players rose to the occasion and the Flames top players didn't. End of story, move on.
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Old 08-14-2022, 04:11 PM   #399
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All these excuses just look bad. If Oilers fans were making them, we would be absolutely roasting them. At the end of the day, the Oilers top players rose to the occasion and the Flames top players didn't. End of story, move on.


I dont see them excuses. We lost. But, I'm not sure if you've noticed but Flames fans are highly critical and analytical.

It makes perfect sense to me to look at that series and try and understand why we lost so mistakes arent repeated.

Some of that is on Sutter. Sometimes you have to bite the bullet and adapt and do something you generally find distasteful, ie, switch up your goalies, even if just for a little bit.

But further, I'm really happy with the Weegar addition (and hopefully extension) because I really look at the fall of Tanev as the stray string that unraveled the entire team.

And your team cannot be that fragile.
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Old 08-14-2022, 05:11 PM   #400
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Markstrom was finding his game and the Flames won game 5 until the league screwed them

Sutter made the right call, you don't pull your Vezina candidate

Shesterkin was playing like balls down 3-1 and his coach kept him in and it paid off
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