When will next season start? Return to Play Negotiations

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I think that's exactly what's going on isn't it?

It's pretty easy to see they underestimated the downward impact to the industry or they wouldn't have negotiated such a small deferral.

I don't think anyone is debating that at all.

Nor am I debating whose fault it is.

But they are where they are. The players had better have a good sense of both roads if they're firmly going to make the owners stick to a road that will see them lose billions.

Tim and Sid had an agent on last week who said several possible covid scenarios were acknowledged in negotiations, and this eventuality (a season without fans) was one of them. Seems like the owners played the odds and lost.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Tim and Sid had an agent on last week who said several possible covid scenarios were acknowledged in negotiations, and this eventuality (a season without fans) was one of them. Seems like the owners played the odds and lost.

What odds? I don't understand what you mean.

They calculated a no fan season and gave too much to the players? There are no odds in that. It was either a terrible calculation, or potentially not knowing their own group (owners) and how many don't want to play or fear they won't make it under that scenario.

[Titan]

Is it odd we have not had any news or leaks at all about this? Assuming a January start, they need to be in camp mid-December, no?

Is this a good sign they are making progress or a bad sign and they are not even talking?

[kyuss275]

Originally Posted by Titan

Is it odd we have not had any news or leaks at all about this? Assuming a January start, they need to be in camp mid-December, no?

Is this a good sign they are making progress or a bad sign and they are not even talking?

With the numbers going up in covid , I see no chance they start at beginning of January. IMO earliest will be beginning of February.

As good as an all Canadian division sounds , I’m not sure how it’s going to work? I live in BC and the provincial government takes some pretty big measures when it comes to travel and covid. I can’t see them letting teams come in to play Vancouver without quarantine for 2 weeks. The same will go when Vancouver comes back from a road trip. I haven’t followed closely what other provinces guidelines would be when it comes to this matter.

[Sidney Crosby's Hat]

Originally Posted by kyuss275

With the numbers going up in covid , I see no chance they start at beginning of January. IMO earliest will be beginning of February.

As good as an all Canadian division sounds , I’m not sure how it’s going to work? I live in BC and the provincial government takes some pretty big measures when it comes to travel and covid. I can’t see them letting teams come in to play Vancouver without quarantine for 2 weeks. The same will go when Vancouver comes back from a road trip. I haven’t followed closely what other provinces guidelines would be when it comes to this matter.

I feel like the Canadian Division will have to be played in a bubble or bubbles (Toronto and Edmonton?). They also might not be able to do the two weeks on, one week off proposed for the same reasons you mentioned.

In the US I think teams will play in their home rinks. NBA is planning it and NFL/MLB have done it.

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by Bingo

What odds? I don't understand what you mean.

They calculated a no fan season and gave too much to the players? There are no odds in that. It was either a terrible calculation, or potentially not knowing their own group (owners) and how many don't want to play or fear they won't make it under that scenario.

I dunno, I think the owners gambled that COVID by whatever means would be under control in time to start a January season with gate revenue. Probably listened to Trump's vaccine bluster and thought every American would be getting a jab for X-Mas. They made a bad calculation and wagered on that calculation being correct.

[GordonBlue]

Originally Posted by Sidney Crosby's Hat

I feel like the Canadian Division will have to be played in a bubble or bubbles (Toronto and Edmonton?). They also might not be able to do the two weeks on, one week off proposed for the same reasons you mentioned.

In the US I think teams will play in their home rinks. NBA is planning it and NFL/MLB have done it.

I don't think bubble are going to happen.
Put to a vote, I believe the majority of players would rather lose the year then spend months in a bubble.

[Vinny01]

I sure hope they don’t have to go to bubbles that will likely mean a bunch of ridiculous start times during the week. I want the prime time games starting from 5-8pm

[memphusk]

Originally Posted by kyuss275

With the numbers going up in covid , I see no chance they start at beginning of January. IMO earliest will be beginning of February.

As good as an all Canadian division sounds , I’m not sure how it’s going to work? I live in BC and the provincial government takes some pretty big measures when it comes to travel and covid. I can’t see them letting teams come in to play Vancouver without quarantine for 2 weeks. The same will go when Vancouver comes back from a road trip. I haven’t followed closely what other provinces guidelines would be when it comes to this matter.

t

They aren't that concerned. Truck loads of Alberta's cross into bc daily to go sledding.

[Major Major]

Originally Posted by memphusk

t

They aren't that concerned. Truck loads of Alberta's cross into bc daily to go sledding.

That's the Alberta part of British Columbia. They don't care about that.

[Sidney Crosby's Hat]

Originally Posted by GordonBlue

I don't think bubble are going to happen.
Put to a vote, I believe the majority of players would rather lose the year then spend months in a bubble.

If it’s only Canadian teams in a bubble and it goes to a full membership vote, I’d think that it could pass, though.

[memphusk]

Originally Posted by Major Major

That's the Alberta part of British Columbia. They don't care about that.

Hahaha. I suppose you're right.

[GordonBlue]

Originally Posted by Sidney Crosby's Hat

If it’s only Canadian teams in a bubble and it goes to a full membership vote, I’d think that it could pass, though.

would be interesting to see.
I still think most would say no for a long bubble, but the vote would be close.

the guys with families and the stars who have lots of money, vs the lower tier players and fringe guys who really need the pay cheque.

[Sidney Crosby's Hat]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

Where do you see the bolded? They revised 16.5, but nothing else in the scheduling section, including the key phrase below:

16.3 ..."the final
decision making authority shall remain with the League."

I think I'm wrong, though not for the reasons of 16.3.

If you look at all of 16.3, it reads:

16.3 Length of Season, Balance and Consistency.

(a) Without the NHLPA's advance written consent, the Regular Season will be scheduled over a period of not less than 184 days.

(b) Each Club will play at least one (1) NHL Game during the first three (3) days of the Regular Season and at least one (1) NHL Game during the last three (3) days of the Regular Season.

(c) In preparing each Club's Regular Season schedule, the League will use reasonable efforts to ensure balance and consistency in terms of the number of Games scheduled for each
Club on a week-to-week and month-to-month basis.

(d) Prior to finalizing the Regular Season schedule, the League shall provide the NHLPA with a draft schedule. The NHLPA shall be given an opportunity to comment on the schedule. This opportunity for the NHLPA to comment shall be provided at a point when the NHL has the ability to adjust the schedule based on the NHLPA's comments and shall include a meeting at the NHL's offices with the Vice President, Scheduling, Research & Operations (or his equivalent) responsible for assembling the schedule and a League attorney. The League will give good faith consideration to specific scheduling requests made by the NHLPA and will provide an explanation if any of the NHLPA's requests will not be accommodated; however, the final decision making authority shall remain with the League

So the final decision-making authority with the NHL is with the actual game schedule but 16.3(a) states that the season cannot be less than 184 days without NHLPA's advance written consent.

Then in section 3 of the MOU, it states:

In connection with this agreement, (ii) For the 2020-21 League Year, the NHL agrees to waive any potential applicability of Paragraph 17(c) in connection with the COVID-19 pandemic on a non-precedential and without prejudice basis for future League Years

If you look at the Standard Players Contract, paragraph 17, it reads:

17. If because of any condition arising from a state of war or other cause beyond the control of the League or of the Club, it shall be deemed advisable by the League or the Club to suspend or cease or reduce operations, then:

(a) in the event of suspension of operations, the Player shall be entitled only to the proportion of Paragraph 1 Salary due at the date of suspension,

(b) in the event of cessation of operations, the Paragraph 1 Salary shall be automatically canceled on the date of cessation, and

(c) in the event of reduction of operations, the Paragraph 1 Salary shall be replaced by that mutually agreed upon between the Club and the Player, or, in the absence of mutual agreement, by that determined by neutral arbitration

So the owners gave back 17 (c) for the remainder of 19-20 and for 20-21 but the owners could still axe the season by invoking 17 (a).

[Sidney Crosby's Hat]

Originally Posted by GordonBlue

would be interesting to see.
I still think most would say no for a long bubble, but the vote would be close.

the guys with families and the stars who have lots of money, vs the lower tier players and fringe guys who really need the pay cheque.

I think most would say no for a long bubble, but if only 7 out of 31 teams are going into the bubble, even if 100% of those players said no, the other 24 teams wouldn't have that as a reason to say no (aside from weighing the risk of getting traded to one of those teams)

[CliffFletcher]

Why would only the Canadian teams play in a bubble, when covid is much more widespread in the U.S.?

[Icon]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Why would only the Canadian teams play in a bubble, when covid is much more widespread in the U.S.?

You've answered your own question.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Icon

You've answered your own question.

I get why there would be a Canadian division. But seeing as covid levels are much higher in the U.S., wouldn't it be U.S. based teams that would benefit most from playing in bubbles?

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by Bingo

What odds? I don't understand what you mean.

They calculated a no fan season and gave too much to the players? There are no odds in that.

They calculated a no fan season and decided it was feasible to pay the players the amount they were offering. Otherwise they would have never agreed to do so.

It was either a terrible calculation, or potentially not knowing their own group (owners) and how many don't want to play or fear they won't make it under that scenario.

You can’t possibly think the owners and their (high priced) negotiating team are that incompetent.

I wasn’t expecting to also have to defend the league in this discussion but here we are.

[Strange Brew]

Meanwhile the NBA is set to start exhibition games in two weeks. As I understand it, the NBA sort cap is also based on 50/50 split of revenues (of which 40% is TV revenue) and they typically had escrow at 10% although I understand it is being raised for next two years.

It’s funny that you don’t hear NBA players complain about escrow. There seems to be an understanding amongst the parties that they in fact share revenues.