I get points in the signing thread for saying I hated it on day 1 but then I lose all those points by doubling back on the next day and saying I "didn't mind it".
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"This has been TheScorpion's shtick for years. All these hot takes, clickbait nonsense just to feed his social media algorithms." –Tuco
4x4.5. Thats great. Downright robbery considering the insanity surrounding similar players. I like it.
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Originally Posted by dammage79
WOW! The sour puss faces in here on this. Insanity.
=
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Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan
Very good signing.
As UFA contracts go, this is a very solid deal, but not undervalued.
Really fits what the Flames needed.
I still want Colborne back on a relatively cheap deal along with this signing.
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Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm
Will be a fantastic compliment player, not as defensive as Frolik but more of a bruiser. Throw him on Monahan or Bennett's right wing and you're looking at a solid 20 goal 40 point season.
Money is high, term is fine.
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Originally Posted by Rejean31
Calling it right now, Brouwer outscores Lucic this coming season.
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Originally Posted by btimbit
People will learn to love him.
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Originally Posted by Alberta_Beef
This is hilarious and so hypocritical. Everyone defends the Frolik contract but rips this one apart? They're both 40-ish point players that bring different other elements.
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Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm
He isn't a first line player, but he's a fantastic physical compliment to those guys. He's easily averaged over 20 goals during his NHL career. This isn't Brandon Bollig people.
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Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm
I must say, any comparison to Glencross is panicky ignorance.
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Originally Posted by btimbit
How many people that hate the move have watched much of Brouwer? The guy is a beast, a right handed, much more skilled Bouma. Total warrior, gives 110% every shift.
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Originally Posted by calgaryblood
Comparing Glencross to Brouwer is a joke. Brouwer actually plays with grit and heart more than once every 10 games and not just against the Oilers. Two players are nothing alike.
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Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan
I understand the trepidation with any FA signing, especially for a physical winger over 30 who isn't purely skilled. However, I think people will realize that this is a perfect complimentary piece to make this team much more difficult to play against next year.
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Originally Posted by dammage79
It's these kind of signings that get W's in the Honda center in the playoffs.
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Originally Posted by FanIn80
Brouwer is a Stanley Cup champion who has played with Toews, Kane and Ovechkin. He plays huge, averages 20 goals and has a right-hand shot. He's joining an organization that has a lot of skill but very little of everything I've listed above, and he wants to be here.
This is exactly what we needed to get to exactly where we want to be headed.
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Originally Posted by btimbit
HERO charts are good when you compare two comparable players.
Glencross and Brouwer are not comparable players, they add completely different elements.
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Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm
Those two role aren't comparable. Glencross was a healthy scratch for the Flames towards the end, as he was for the Capitals in the playoffs. Maybe Curtis' role should be changed to "bit player".
Flawed chart.
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Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm
Brouwer's play will win anyone over.
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Originally Posted by Yamer
I really don't think they are. Consider style and role alone. Not to mention that Glencross was notorious for checking out mentally for stretches of games. The majority of his points came in the 40% of the season he gave a ####. Once put on a contender in Washington he was lost because that kind of effort and attitude will not put you into big game situations.
Brouwer is the antithesis of a Glencross. 100% for all 82+, plays a physical and aggressive style, gets the hard-nosed goals that you need to win a game 7 against a team like the Blackhawks, and can be put anywhere in the lineup.
I just don't believe there is any real comparison to be made there, sorry.
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Originally Posted by Flash Walken
If the hero chart is telling you glencross and brouwer are similar I would take that as a sign the methodology is flawed.
I cannot articulate where the methodology is flawed, but I would hazard glencross not being able to make a roster on a PTO and brouwer being contacted for a contract by multiple teams in the first hour of free agency points to an error.
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Originally Posted by btimbit
Plus, Brouwer seemingly doesn't get injured, never takes a shift off, more consistent, better defensively. They're not really comparable other than being middle 6 wingers
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Originally Posted by devo22
2011-12: 247 hits, 60 blocks (in 82)
2012-13: 108 hits, 23 blocks (in 47)
2013-14: 210 hits, 39 blocks (in 82)
2014-15: 206 hits, 39 blocks (in 82)
2015-16: 200 hits, 52 blocks (in 82)
hitting machine. Never injured. Right-handed shot. Gives you 15-20 goals and 35-40 points consistently. Over 600 NHL games and a cup win.
oh yeah, what a ####ty signing. I'll give it 10 games before everybody loves that guy. Fills a MAJOR need on this team.
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Originally Posted by New Era
Great contract for the Flames! Was hoping for a 5th year to bring the cap hit down a bit, but pretty well called the numbers. Treliving is really doing a great job addressing the needs of the team. I was a little concerned after the draft when he came away a little short on the RW, but this signing covers that need for a three years at worst. Great job Mr. Treliving!
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Originally Posted by btimbit
Exactly.
I know I said it time and time again in the Elliot thread, but I'll repeat it here. I watched a lot of the Blues last year. Brouwer brings so much more than what's on the stat sheet. I don't even mean stuff like 'good locker room guy' (Although by all accounts he is) but quite simply, even when he's not getting points, the guy is an absolute force on the ice.
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Originally Posted by New Era
The most important thing about this trade is the Flames got bigger today. And not just bigger because of Brouwer's physical size. The whole team got bigger because Brouwer is the type of guy that will step up and beat the #### out of someone for doing something stupid. The Flames haven't had this type of player since McGrattan. The Flames haven't had this in a player that can play a shift on the top lines since Iginla left. Johnny Hockey just grew another six inches. Shinkarek just took another step to earning a full time position. Small guys just got that much bigger because they know someone has their backs! Hopefully Ferland and Hathaway learn from Brouwer's example and that willingness to stand up for your fellow players become infectious.
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Originally Posted by Enoch Root
Brouwer makes the Flames a better team - exactly the type of player needed and an upgrade on Colborne
Three biggest holes on the roster: goal RW and size
Hiller and Ramo $8.5M
Elliott Johnson Brouwer and Chiasson $9.5M
And some people are upset?
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Originally Posted by Enoch Root
One other thing he brings to the team...
He can line up against and neutralize Lucic when the Oil try to get him out against Johnny
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Originally Posted by Enoch Root
Okposo impactful?
Similar goals, doesn't bring anything else.
I think that it is highly probably that the Okposo signing will be the burdensome one between the two.
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Originally Posted by Enoch Root
This article is the poster child for why you don't evaluate a player based on a hero chart. Absolutely brutal.
Brouwer is a warrior and stands up for his team-mates. I have never seen a chart quantify or demonstrate qualities like that before.
Also, all of these HERO charts keep showing him as having 4th line scoring. What's with that? He has averaged 20 G per year for the last 7 years. Only 51 players have more goals than him over that period. And Lucic was NOT one of them.
But 7 years is a long time. Let's look at the last 5 to bring more players into the conversation.
In the last 5 years, 45 players have more goals than Brouwer. 45. Taylor Hall has 9 more goals over that period.
A few of the names behind him: Hudler, Cammalleri, Oshie, Okposo, Perron and Lucic.
And many, many others.
I couldn't give a rat's ass what the advanced stats say about him. Because watching him play, I see a guy I want on my team.
Calling him a 4th liner is moronic. And the stats simply don't capture what he is.
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Originally Posted by Enoch Root
Also, stats don't get that he has size and plays with an edge - they don't get that the Flames NEED this.
Stats don't capture that he is a RHS that can score goals - they don't get that the Flames need this.
And of course, they don't capture leadership, experience, being good in the room, or any of those other !gasp! intangibles.
Oh, and not relating specifically to Brouwer, but:
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Originally Posted by Huntingwhale
Those HERO charts turned stupid the day someone here posted the one with Justin Schutlz and it showed him being a top 4 guy. They're garbage and yet they get trotted out like the gospel every 2nd post.
Justin Schultz was a 50+ point defenseman who played top 4 minutes on the eventual cup winners while finishing top 10 in Norris voting last year.
Also from that day, a different thread:
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Originally Posted by Lil Pedro
Nah, would rather call you out for your joke posts. Get ready for 4 years of Brouwer shoutouts in PGT bud.
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"May those who accept their fate find happiness. May those who defy it find glory."
Last edited by GranteedEV; 10-05-2017 at 09:14 PM.
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To be fair, hindsight is very dangerous. Who knows -- maybe Brouwer returns to form once again this year and in a year's time, we're looking back on this thread saying "we should have waited".
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"This has been TheScorpion's shtick for years. All these hot takes, clickbait nonsense just to feed his social media algorithms." –Tuco
It is interesting how people were using Brouwer as a posterboy for how advanced stats ie)hero charts were flawed when in reality it turned out be the opposite.
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Troy Brouwer is less than half the guy I saw play in St Louis. My buddy is a die hard Blues fan. He was dumbfounded to find out he was the whipping boy in Calgary and how badly his play has fallen off a cliff.
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If only 2017-me could go back into the past, before I posted in that signing thread, and say “No, I’ve seen what comes, don’t post something you’ll regret...”
I’d still probably post. The wishing of Brouwer on a line with Tkachuk to shelter the kid now feels cringeworthy, but I made a nice HERO chart jab. That was a great time for HERO charts.
The Blues were coming off that playoff run in 2016 (lead by Brian Elliott of course); Brouwer scored 8 goals in 20 games that playoffs. They also knocked out Dallas in the second round, which cost us a first rounder in that year's draft (the Kris Russell trade). So yeah, that whole situation didn't work out great for us...
On the plus side, Wideman and Hudler were both amazing in year three of their contracts. Hold on until 2018/19?!?
Unreal. That takes a special kind of arrogance to attempt to call everybody out but not put anything in context. Even bolding the passages people ought to be ashamed of but ignoring everything else they may have said that adds context is particularly contentious.
Trust me, you don't want someone searching out all of the flippant comments you've made about players or the incorrect evaluations you've made, because trust me man, you've made plenty of them.
Congrats, you were right about Brouwer, but it also took some serious regression on Brouwer's part for you to be right about him, so really, you weren't that smart.
Seriously man. Get. Over. Yourself.
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Originally Posted by ResAlien
If we can't fall in love with replaceable bottom 6 players then the terrorists have won.
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I get points in the signing thread for saying I hated it on day 1 but then I lose all those points by doubling back on the next day and saying I "didn't mind it".
There are no points.
This forum is not about points.
Nobody is keeping score.
Well, most of us aren't keeping score.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ResAlien
If we can't fall in love with replaceable bottom 6 players then the terrorists have won.
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Lmao I don't keep score
it's just a metaphor
to you I do implore
please show yourself the door
jk don't go, it's just a joke
__________________
"This has been TheScorpion's shtick for years. All these hot takes, clickbait nonsense just to feed his social media algorithms." –Tuco
Unreal. That takes a special kind of arrogance to attempt to call everybody out but not put anything in context. Even bolding the passages people ought to be ashamed of but ignoring everything else they may have said that adds context is particularly contentious.
Trust me, you don't want someone searching out all of the flippant comments you've made about players or the incorrect evaluations you've made, because trust me man, you've made plenty of them.
Calm down. Quoting something you said a year ago is not a personal attack on you or even a call out. They are just funny things to read when the opinions are so strong. Your Colborne statement is funny because it's a day after he just cleared waivers, it doesn't mean you were wrong on that day.
That said some (not all, or most and not necessarily yourself) of the posters who said those things are generally known to be pretty smug about their evaluations and known to throw around personal jabs at dissenting ones, if you want to call that a callout, sure - I am calling out MMF who is not even on CP anymore technically although it's pretty obvious who his alt account is.
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Congrats, you were right about Brouwer
No, I was not. I said in that thread that Brouwer was a middle six forward/third liner even if I hated the signing. He has not been a middle six forward for us. I was wrong and if you called me out for it I would not be bothered. Sorry if I offended you by quoting your own relatively strong opinion.
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it also took some serious regression on Brouwer's part for you to be right about him, so really, you weren't that smart.
Not that my being "smart" has any bearing but are you really surprised that an already slow 30 year old regressed? This isn't TJ Brodie or Aaron Ekblad regressing here.
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Seriously man. Get. Over. Yourself.
Likewise. Not eveything is personal. You've been known to make it personal in the past though. And here you are doing it again.
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"May those who accept their fate find happiness. May those who defy it find glory."
Last edited by GranteedEV; 10-05-2017 at 10:12 PM.
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re: quote about Jagr
It looked bad just put on twitter with no context but the actual quote with video was fine. Brouwer might be playing terrible, but he comes across as a team player.
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jk don't go, it's just a joke
