08-26-2017, 07:17 PM
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#1
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Franchise Player
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NHL Network: Top 20 NHL Defencemen
Dougie Hamilton comes in at #16, Mark Giordano follows shortly behind at #18!
Last edited by ComixZone; 08-26-2017 at 07:21 PM.
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08-26-2017, 07:23 PM
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#2
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Franchise Player
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Karl son and burns would both have to go see a good Lebanese barber before they would be on my list.
__________________
If I do not come back avenge my death
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08-26-2017, 07:24 PM
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#3
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Scoring Winger
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Maybe I'm biased, but Gio should be much higher and definitely higher than Dougie.
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08-26-2017, 07:38 PM
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#4
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Calgary, AB
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"I call him John Wayne. He's that type of player." (re:Weber)
What does that even mean?
__________________
Turn up the good, turn down the suck!
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08-26-2017, 07:50 PM
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#5
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Franchise Player
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This just seems like a random listing of really good defensemen (except Shattenkirk, LOL)
__________________
KNOWLEDGE IS POWER. I love power.
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08-26-2017, 08:23 PM
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#6
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Paradise
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Let me get this straight. Dougie is the 2nd highst under 25 D on this list but is 8th on the actual under 25 list. I guess 1+1=3 at the nhl network.... random lists.
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08-26-2017, 09:24 PM
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#7
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Franchise Player
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Giordano is easily better than Hamilton.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by CroFlames
Before you call me a pessimist or a downer, the Flames made me this way. Blame them.
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08-28-2017, 07:51 AM
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#8
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Franchise Player
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It's not that Hamilton and Giordano are too low, it's that Pietrangelo, Weber and especially Suter are too high.
__________________
"The great promise of the Internet was that more information would automatically yield better decisions. The great disappointment is that more information actually yields more possibilities to confirm what you already believed anyway." - Brian Eno
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08-28-2017, 08:05 AM
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#9
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Lifetime Suspension
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague
It's not that Hamilton and Giordano are too low, it's that Pietrangelo, Weber and especially Suter are too high.
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No, Giordano is definitely too low. He consistently performs to the standard of a top 5 d in the league regardless of partner season in and season out and yet never really gets that kind of recognition. He's been as consistently good as anyone since the 2013 season, and is somehow the only reason why Hamilton is a good defenseman according to other teams fans around the league, yet he is never ranked as so. We probably have to go on a long playoff run for media to really take notice of how great he is since he isn't a younger sexier name like josi, letang or subban
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08-28-2017, 08:21 AM
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#10
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: CGY
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Quote:
Originally Posted by codynw
Giordano is easily better than Hamilton.
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I get the suspicion if Brodie and Dougie were paired together they would not be the best put in the league. The constant when the Flames have arguably the top D pair in the league is Giordano. The talk was there with Brodie and even more so with Hamilton last year.
Gio should have 1-2 Norris trophies if it were not for injury
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08-28-2017, 08:25 AM
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#11
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Participant
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Love
No, Giordano is definitely too low. He consistently performs to the standard of a top 5 d in the league regardless of partner season in and season out and yet never really gets that kind of recognition. He's been as consistently good as anyone since the 2013 season, and is somehow the only reason why Hamilton is a good defenseman according to other teams fans around the league, yet he is never ranked as so. We probably have to go on a long playoff run for media to really take notice of how great he is since he isn't a younger sexier name like josi, letang or subban
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I disagree, albeit not that strongly. Gio had a couple top 5 seasons, but last season and the season before weren't "top 5" seasons. I think a ranking around 10-13 is probably more accurate for how he's been playing lately.
It's a similar situation to Brodie. Many (including me) were all talking about how he was one of the best defenceman in the league two years ago. Now? He's dropped off quite a bit. Can he bring it back up? Sure, but we'll eat and see. With Gio, he has to prove he's a top 5 guy night in and night out. Making his partner look better (Brodie, Hamilton) is amazing, but you've also got to so out there and be a clear step above everyone else.
The NHL is a "what have you done for me lately" league, and two top-5 seasons two years ago doesn't make him a top 5 player today.
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08-28-2017, 09:00 AM
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#12
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Lifetime Suspension
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PepsiFree
I disagree, albeit not that strongly. Gio had a couple top 5 seasons, but last season and the season before weren't "top 5" seasons. I think a ranking around 10-13 is probably more accurate for how he's been playing lately.
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I don't understand why though. It's kind of that riddle that get's passed around and soon enough it just becomes the norm for hockey fans.
Possession wise, he is dominant
Offensive production sans the season before this one was dominant (but unlike those other guys he didn't get time on PP#1)
Defensive play has always been impeccable for him
Intangible stuff? He's got that too.
I can understand the dynamic gamebreaking ability of Burns or Karlsson giving them the edge over Gio. Keith and Doughty are horses too and have led their teams to the cup, so they get the benefit of the doubt. Sure.
After that I don't believe any of these other guys are any better than Gio.
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08-28-2017, 09:32 AM
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#13
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Love
No, Giordano is definitely too low. He consistently performs to the standard of a top 5 d in the league regardless of partner season in and season out and yet never really gets that kind of recognition.
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Okay, so what's your list? Are you going to put Giordano above Brent Burns? PK Subban? Drew Doughty? Erik Karlsson? Hedman? Keith? OEL? Because you have to if you want him up near the top five. And while he's a great defenseman (despite being past his prime now), he's just not as good as that crew. And there are other guys who will pass him shortly - I disagree with the consensus above; Hamilton already has. But they're both in the 10-15 range for me, with Hamilton closer to 10.
This is hardly an indictment on Giordano; being one of the top ~15 blueliners in the league is pretty damned high praise.
__________________
"The great promise of the Internet was that more information would automatically yield better decisions. The great disappointment is that more information actually yields more possibilities to confirm what you already believed anyway." - Brian Eno
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08-28-2017, 09:57 AM
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#14
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Calgary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague
Okay, so what's your list? Are you going to put Giordano above Brent Burns? PK Subban? Drew Doughty? Erik Karlsson? Hedman? Keith? OEL? Because you have to if you want him up near the top five. .
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OEL and Burns? Neither is as good as Gio.
__________________
"May those who accept their fate find happiness. May those who defy it find glory."
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08-28-2017, 09:58 AM
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#15
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Lifetime Suspension
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague
Okay, so what's your list? Are you going to put Giordano above Brent Burns? PK Subban? Drew Doughty? Erik Karlsson? Hedman? Keith? OEL? Because you have to if you want him up near the top five. And while he's a great defenseman (despite being past his prime now), he's just not as good as that crew. And there are other guys who will pass him shortly - I disagree with the consensus above; Hamilton already has. But they're both in the 10-15 range for me, with Hamilton closer to 10.
This is hardly an indictment on Giordano; being one of the top ~15 blueliners in the league is pretty damned high praise.
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Karlsson
Hedman
Doughty
Burns
Keith
Giordano
Subban
OEL
Pietrangelo
then some order of: Letang/Suter/McDonaugh/Weber
imo
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08-28-2017, 10:04 AM
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#16
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First Line Centre
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Section 120
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I wonder how they chose the rankings?
Norris Trophy Vote rankings for Giordano
2016-17: 8th
2015-16: 13th
2014-15: 6th (only played 61 games)
2013-14: 10th (only played 64 games)
Mean Norris Voting Rank: 9th.
Giordano's Goal Ranking and Point Ranking amongst defencemen.
2016-17: T13th, T24th
2015-16: T2, 6
2014-15: 13, T17 (only played 61 games)
2013-14: T7, 12 (only played 64 games)
Mean goal ranking: 9th
Mean point ranking: 15th. This includes playing ~20 less games in 2 of his last 4 seasons.
Last, and most importantly, Giordano is a stud defensively and plays the toughest minutes on the team in a division that has been very strong over the past 4 years. And he's the captain.
This ranking is a joke.
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08-28-2017, 10:24 AM
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#17
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Participant
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Love
Karlsson
Hedman
Doughty
Burns
Keith
Giordano
Subban
OEL
Pietrangelo
then some order of: Letang/Suter/McDonaugh/Weber
imo
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I don't disagree with your list much, but I think that the rankings exist in tiers. Karlsson, Keith, Doughty, Hedman, Burns are all clearly in the first tier, I don't see Gio in that tier.
He exists in a tier with Josi, Subban, Pietrangelo, Letang, etc. Guys that are very, very good, but not really in the debate for the best defenceman in the league.
IMO you can place Gio anywhere from #7 to #13 and I'm not going to disagree with the ranking. Top 5 is too high, lower than #15 is too low. But he's in a very, very good tier where very little separates each guy from the other and they could end up anywhere within their range in any given season.
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08-28-2017, 12:24 PM
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#18
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GranteedEV
OEL and Burns? Neither is as good as Gio.
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I would say to you, sir, that with the greatest possible respect, you are on crack.
Especially with regard to Burns, because that should be obvious by this point, but OEL has been a hugely underrated guy for years and is biting at the heels of the top 5 guys. He doesn't get his due because Coyotes. It's always curious to me that people who have (quite rightly) been annoyed for years at Gio not getting his due are more than willing to dismiss a guy who's just as consistently underrated.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Love
Karlsson
Hedman
Doughty
Burns
Keith
Giordano
Subban
OEL
Pietrangelo
then some order of: Letang/Suter/McDonaugh/Weber
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Hey,well, props for stepping up. I would disagree with some of this; I'd be more likely to put Giordano ahead of Keith at this point than Subban or OEL, and you've not mentioned Josi, who may be a bit high on the NHL's list but is clearly a better all around defenseman than any of Pietrangelo, Weber, Suter, or McDonagh. I'd also put Hamilton in front of some of those guys. At some point we're splitting hairs on that stuff.
__________________
"The great promise of the Internet was that more information would automatically yield better decisions. The great disappointment is that more information actually yields more possibilities to confirm what you already believed anyway." - Brian Eno
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08-28-2017, 01:06 PM
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#19
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Powerplay Quarterback
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I think this ranking is factoring in Gio's age...even though there is no sign of drop-off in his play to-date.
But of course, these ranking are just for summer conversations. Give 'em hell on the ice Gio and lead the Flames to gloy!
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08-28-2017, 01:07 PM
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#20
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Calgary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague
I would say to you, sir, that with the greatest possible respect, you are on crack.
Especially with regard to Burns, because that should be obvious by this point,
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What? Burns is the ultimate beneficiary of Marc Eduoard Vlasic carrying his pair in tough deployment so Burns' second pair can excel offensively with Pavelski, Thornton, Hertl, (+Marleau on PP). I like him but he is not a complete defenseman like Hedman, Karlsson, Giordano, Doughty, Keith, and Subban. He may be elite offensively in his role but those guys are elite offensively in a much tougher role.
Quote:
but OEL has been a hugely underrated guy for years and is biting at the heels of the top 5 guys. He doesn't get his due because Coyotes. It's always curious to me that people who have (quite rightly) been annoyed for years at Gio not getting his due are more than willing to dismiss a guy who's just as consistently underrated.
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OEL isn't underrated. He is a good defenseman who gets overrated because of the extended minutes he plays on the power play of a team that lacks the depth to have it any other way. His ES scoring is nothing special and defensively he is not as good as Giordano. He is an excellent PPQB who is a solid 5 on 5 defenseman - a solid #1 but not a top 5-ish guy like Gio.
You are seriously overrating defensemen who produce on the power play. Even a third pair guy like Sami Vatanen can do that. Being dominant at ES - defensivey foremost and translating that into offense - is more valuable. Burns is elite offensively but he would not be as productive if he played the type of shutdown minutes Giordano is tasked with. OEL has only outproduced Giordano once at 5v5 in the last four seasons and that was with Gio being one of the best defensive dmen in the league and letting Hamilton handle the offense.
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Last edited by GranteedEV; 08-28-2017 at 01:19 PM.
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