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Old 08-30-2017, 01:05 PM   #41
Kipper_3434
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I guess my last post came off a little strong. All I'm trying to say is that 3 of our top 5 had bad seasons last year. Gio is very very very good, he still likely won't be better than last season and likely slightly worse. That still means good. Dougie is great and getting better.

All that being said, I find it highly unlikely that all 3 (stone, Brodie, Hamonic) bounce back to career norms. The biggest concern for me is Hamonic and Brodie. It took half of last season for the D to figure out GG's system, if Hamonic has those same struggles he could end up on the bottom pairing or dragging down an already struggling (relatively) Brodie.

Therefore, I'd say this team had a top 10 defence on paper. Top 5 if the guys bounce back as reasonably expected. And near the top if a couple of guys have huge career seasons, in addition to everyone e bouncing back.

I don't think that's being overly pessimistic, just realistic. Sure me
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Old 08-30-2017, 01:08 PM   #42
the2bears
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Originally Posted by Textcritic View Post
It would be useful to see some numbers, figures or any actual proof of these bald assertions.
New term for ricardodw's arguments: Hairless Rhetoric
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Old 08-30-2017, 01:23 PM   #43
PepsiFree
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A lot of people say the Ducks have better D but I really don't think they do. Today, the Flames are better #1-5.

Giordano > Fowler
Hamilton > Lindholm
Brodie > Vatanen
Hamonic > Manson at this point in time
Stone > Montour at this point in time
Kulak/Bartkowski < Holzer/Bieksa
It's tough to say. On paper (and to a man) our D is better, but their D really effectively fit into their system. As a unit their D works incredibly well together and each pairing compliments their forwards. If our D can function like that, it's better, but having the better players doesn't always mean you have the better defence (when the comparisons are close at least).

Consider me very hopeful though. Having Hamonic as a 2nd and Stone as a 3rd bodes really well for our potential.
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Old 08-30-2017, 01:25 PM   #44
Mister Yamoto
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These lists are subjective. No Flames are ever going to be very high on these lists unless they win something.

There are lots of great defencemen. Just getting on the list shows how respected Giordano and Hamilton are around the league. Most of us watch the Flames too much to look at it objectively.
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Old 09-02-2017, 08:56 AM   #45
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Brodie: Disaster of a season: excuses can be made but good is good and bad is bad. Should bounce back next year but............
How was Brodie's season a disaster? He was an elite shutdown player who posted 40 points in 86 games.

The only thing that wasn't great about Brodie's season was the luck part, and the shots on goal part. Shots on goal have never been his game in successful years which leaves luck. Last year was a quantifiably unlucky season for Brodie. Expecting the repeatability of that poor luck is a reverse gambler's fallacy. We can't predict Brodie's luck, but we do know that it wasn't his defensive play that was lacking in his on'-ice save percentage and we know defensemen don't significantly influence on-ice shooting percentages the way a forward could.

It's fair to say Hamonic and Stone have red flags - because there was evidence of their teams allowing worse non-luck-related performance with them on the ice - but the same does not apply to Brodie.
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