[Trade] Elias Lindholm + Noah Hanifin to Flames for D. Hamilton, Micheal Ferland, & Adam Fox

[GoJetsGo]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

I was responding to your hyperbole of trading all of our players for picks.

There have been several posts with good discussion of why the Bruins have had some success which I thought was rather interesting. Now it has been derailed by two posters who care more about commenting on another posters agenda. Too bad.

lol, you do this more than anyone on this site with your ongoing thanks-trolling and subtle digs.

This latest discussion wasn't about the thread topic at all, and some strong points were made on this page regardless of your ongoing spiteful feelings towards those who made them. You had every opportunity to refute the points and instead chose to do what you always do. Par for the course.

[Macindoc]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

Not that I'm really commenting on anything, but the ONLY reason Hanifin wasn't billed as a potential first overall, like Jones, is that his draft year happened to have some okay hockey prospects in McDavid and Eichel.

Going into his draft season it was the three of them (with Hanifin being a distant third place) but his scouting report was every bit as strong as Jones was.
https://www.tsn.ca/talent/mckenzie-h...anifin-1.88237

Believe me, I'm quite excited about his potential, and I'm hopeful that the Brouwer buyout signals the Flames' intention to lock up Hanifin for 7 years.

I see Hanifin as having top pairing potential, which will hopefully be realized around the same time as Gio starts to step back a bit due to his age, perhaps in about 2 years. It's a really natural-looking succession plan.

The more I think about it, the more it seems as if Gio's age was a contributor to this trade. Hamilton couldn't replace him as the top LD, Brodie simply isn't a natural on the left side, and none of Valimaki, Kylingon, or Fox would have been ready for the 1st pairing in 2 years, whereas Hanifin will hopefully be able to step right into that position when Gio starts to inevitably slow down. It seems like a really forward-thinking hockey trade, keeping in mind the overall development of the team several years in advance. So it may turn out that the succession plan for Gio was the most important consideration in making this deal, and having a young, responsible, versatile, 2-way, top 6 C/RW was just a bonus, for which Fox was the price.

[GoJetsGo]

It's exciting to think about how much better Hanifin has the potential to be.

When you combine that with a solid pick like Valimaki our defense has the potential to be a strong area for a very long time.

[Flash Walken]

Hanifin strikes me as a bigger, Jordan Leopold type defender, built for the new, faster game.

Tape to Tape, skate it out, carry it deep and get back in position.

[dino7c]

The picks given up for Hamilton are obviously a clear win

Hamonic remains to be seen

Flames have what 5 recent top six 1st rounders on the roster...Not many teams can say that

[Macindoc]

Originally Posted by dino7c

The picks given up for Hamilton are obviously a clear win

Hamonic remains to be seen

Flames have what 5 recent top six 1st rounders on the roster...Not many teams can say that

Well, until recently, the Oilers could. So even with such a wealth of top picks, a team can still be No Good...

[CF84]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

That's one way of looking at it.

Another way is that since the 2014 draft the Bruins have drafted in the first 2 rounds 14 times.

The Flames by comparison have drafted in the first 2 rounds...9 times.

In the first 3 rounds:

Boston: 16 times
Calgary: 11 times

Sure, but maybe you are not taking into account how those picks were acquired? Boston acquired two 2nd's in a stupid trade that sent out Boychuk. They also lost in a trade that sent Hamilton to the Flames for one 1st and two 2nd's.

It almost sounds like you are defending Chiarelli for his bad moves...Maybe Edmonton is lucky to have him as their GM!?

Subtract those two bad trades and we now have:
Calgary: 12 times (a worse team with some magical mystery boxes)
Boston: 9 times

I like the moves we've made very much, and I am more excited for the upcoming season than I have been in years.

[dino7c]

Since 2014 the Flames roster has improved more than the Bruins roster IMO. They already had high end talent in their prime...Flames not so much. This season is big though, TSN turning point for Tre.

[BigErnSalute_16]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Way to move the goalposts. We all know where the Flames have finished the last few years, but that doesn't change the facts with respect to acquiring players and picks, which was, you know, the conversation that you were in.

True but if Jones was in the draft class with McDavid and Eichel he would probably be ranked 3rd just like Hanifin was.

[Macindoc]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Since 2014 the Flames roster has improved more than the Bruins roster IMO. They already had high end talent in their prime...Flames not so much. This season is big though, TSN turning point for Tre.

I agree, the Bruins already had a Cup-contending roster before 2014. Treliving has been swinging for the fences this off-season, and it will be interesting to see how his moves pan out over the next few years. If the Flames falter again this season, it may be Treliving's last one.

[BigErnSalute_16]

Originally Posted by Macindoc

Believe me, I'm quite excited about his potential, and I'm hopeful that the Brouwer buyout signals the Flames' intention to lock up Hanifin for 7 years.

I see Hanifin as having top pairing potential, which will hopefully be realized around the same time as Gio starts to step back a bit due to his age, perhaps in about 2 years. It's a really natural-looking succession plan.

The more I think about it, the more it seems as if Gio's age was a contributor to this trade. Hamilton couldn't replace him as the top LD, Brodie simply isn't a natural on the left side, and none of Valimaki, Kylingon, or Fox would have been ready for the 1st pairing in 2 years, whereas Hanifin will hopefully be able to step right into that position when Gio starts to inevitably slow down. It seems like a really forward-thinking hockey trade, keeping in mind the overall development of the team several years in advance. So it may turn out that the succession plan for Gio was the most important consideration in making this deal, and having a young, responsible, versatile, 2-way, top 6 C/RW was just a bonus, for which Fox was the price.

Ya I agree I think it was a very smart trade, and even if Hanifin's progression is on the low side of what defensemen usually do in their 4th season – about .07ppg increase – thats still right around 40 points, with the potential of even more in the following seasons. I can definitely see him being able to replace Giordano on the top pair in as early as two seasons. Whether or not Giordano declines enough to warrant being replaced is a different story.

[djsFlames]

I also remember when Hanifin was generating McDavid like hype around the hockey world. It's for good reason. He has all the tools and is probably right on track for a top end d-man given the situation and team he came from but progression he was still able to show. Can't imagine he doesn't elevate his offensive game another level with the opportunities and players he'll get to skate with here.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by GoJetsGo

Couldn't have been any more obtuse. How does the number of playoff games the Bruins won *this last season* have anything to do with their number of draft picks in the last three calendar years? Moreover, how is that a slight against the moves we made? I don't seem to recall the likes of Senyshyn, DeBrusk and Zboril contributing to many of Boston's playoff wins this season.

I think DeBrusk contributed in Game 7 against the Leafs, with 2 goals, including the game winner. The goal in game 4 definitely contributed as well. I guess it comes down to your definition of "many".

[GoJetsGo]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

I think DeBrusk contributed in Game 7 against the Leafs, with 2 goals, including the game winner. The goal in game 4 definitely contributed as well. I guess it comes down to your definition of "many".

The point was Flash (as he always does) was trying to mock Calgary giving away the picks we did to Boston despite the fact their playoff wins from this season were largely driven by their cup winning core that dates back long before the recent draft years being compared.

The fact we ended up with Hamonic, Smith, Lindholm and Hanafin for those pics we gave up that swung a meaningless total number of draft picks in Boston's favour was just met with a sarcastic "they must be jealous of our sweet players".

No one needs to be jealous, but having those young cost controlled former top five picks goes a long way towards hopefully sustaining success and competitiveness.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Not that people with an agenda will care, but the reason the Bruins have had more success in the last few years than the Flames have, is not because they have had a few more picks, it's because they have Bergeron, Marchand and Chara, along with Pasternak turning into a gem. Not to mention Rask.

Yep, more bullets in the chamber led to more hits on draft picks, good point. Unlike that idiot Flashwalken who believes teams should put more bullets in the chamber to up the odds of uncovering NHL stars and depth.

[GoJetsGo]

Originally Posted by jayswin

Yep, more bullets in the chamber led to more hits on draft picks, good point. Unlike that idiot Flashwalken who believes teams should put more bullets in the chamber to up the odds of uncovering NHL stars and depth.

Who knows... they could even turn into Lindholms or Hanafins.

[FlamesFanTrev]

Originally Posted by Macindoc

I agree, the Bruins already had a Cup-contending roster before 2014. Treliving has been swinging for the fences this off-season, and it will be interesting to see how his moves pan out over the next few years. If the Flames falter again this season, it may be Treliving's last one.

Treliving has done everything he can over the last few years to make this team successful, short of putting on equipment and scoring goals. I honestly don't think he's getting close to being in the hot seat yet. I think there were ALWAYS several seasons worth of roster moves in order to transition this roster to something cohesive. To be honest, it's remarkable where we have come from to where we appear to be now, and in such a short time frame. I think it's refreshing to have a guy making decisions with not only the comming season in mind, but with a plan for the next few seasons afterwards.

[Mr.Coffee]

Calgary also hasn’t had a Tuuka Rask either...

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by jayswin

Yep, more bullets in the chamber led to more hits on draft picks, good point. Unlike that idiot Flashwalken who believes teams should put more bullets in the chamber to up the odds of uncovering NHL stars and depth.

Come on, you're a better poster than that.

Look, it is a given that draft picks are where assets are acquired, and more picks means more assets. It is also a given that a team has to draft well in order to be successful (though there is a lot more luck in that than most people want to admit). And it is a given that an organization needs to do a good job with development of their players.

These three things are all true, and everyone agrees with that fact. And in order to achieve consistent success in the NHL, you better be above average in all three. No one - literally no one - is arguing against that.

Having said that, being singularly focused on one issue, the way Flash is, to the point where every other aspect of team-building is not only ignored but derided, is far too one-dimensional. There is nothing wrong with trading picks occasionally, if you get worthwhile assets in return. Every great team supplemented their core by trading for assets to fill holes in the lineup. There is absolutely nothing wrong with acquiring assets through trade, when done properly.

But that's not even what we're talking about here. The argument was made that Boston has had more picks than Calgary over the last few years. I simply pointed out that you can't just look at the picks, you have to also consider what the Flames acquired for the picks they traded away. If you trade away a pick, but acquire a great young player in return, it is obtuse to ignore that fact and simply say "but, less picks".

Or, you can simply keep bleating one view and ignore facts that don't fit the narrative.

[Itse]

Originally Posted by Macindoc

If the Flames falter again this season, it may be Treliving's last one.

The Flames are a below 90 point team with one of the worst prospect pools in the league.

If we don't make the playoffs Treliving is definitely gone.