Actually, yes, a lot are forced to take them out and have horrible terms attached to them. Once you enter a program you get no value out of it until you have achieved completion of said program. If you walk away early, regardless of the situation, you have that loan hanging over your head and no way to ever have it discharged. Most people go to school to better themselves and their situation in life and many are being screwed over because of the oppressive terms of the loans they are locked into.
Save the moral hazard bull####. Again, Trump just gave $1.6 TRILLION in tax breaks and windfalls to the top 1%, those in society who need it least. He just made the rich richer. Where is your moral outrage there? On top of that, Trump's COVID relief allowed these same people to take out billions in loans, and then Trump made it so they didn't have to pay those back. Again, where is your moral outrage and claims of moral hazard there? 1.2 million people just made out like ####ing bandits, and everyone else is left holding the bag. Time for main street to get a fair shake and get some forgiveness.
Student loans are special IMO. They are taken out by people trying to better themselves and their communities. When someone educates themselves they improve not only their own prospects but those of the community they live in. Education is a way to impact large populations quickly and give them a chance for social mobility.
Car loans, and credit card debit are very different. They really are a result of discretionary spending with no greater benefit to the society as a whole. They can be discharged through bankruptcy. I would never agree to kill that off as most spending like this is truly on discretionary spending. Mortgages are very different as well, but there have been means put into place in the past to help out during crisis situations. When the housing crash happened the government allowed millions to short sell their homes, without penalty, to get out of underwater loans. So programs like this have worked in the past and kept the system afloat.
Medical debt is something that should also be wiped clean, but that will have to come with the implementation of universal healthcare. You should never have to go into debt because you had the misfortune of getting sick or injured. Another one of the many short comings of our system here in the United States. The almighty dollar is the primary driver behind everything and that is not how a high performing society remains at the top of the heap.
That's bull####. The intent of forgiving student debt provides a great deal of benefit to society as a whole. Our systems are revenue driven. When there is no revenue flowing into those systems, they fail. The intent is to kick start the economy by giving people more discretionary cash to go spend and get more jobs into the economy. More jobs in the economy means more tax revenues, which means greater health to our social systems, like Social Security. This is where pin head conservatives don't have a ####ing clue. You want to solve the insolvency of our social programs, get people to work and get people paying income tax! More jobs means more revenues. More spending means more demand for products and then more jobs. We have tried this trickle down economics bull#### for decades and its been a failure. Time to try some trickle up economics and give a bunch of people who are the primary target for our spending economy a chance to kick it into gear!
I want tp point out just had badly our student loans systems are broken. Explain to me why a person with a student loan is getting bent over by the government for 6.5-9% interest on loans when that same government is getting money at a rate of .25%? Government is non-profit, but here they are raking money in hand-over-fist on this student loan ponzy scheme. They have made it impossible to have student debt erased, even from the predatory institutions who conned their customers. I would also like to point out that because these predatory institutions got away with the bad practices of predatory loans the rest of the industry chased after them, making the problem that much larger. The whole system is broken and needs to be wiped clean. We gave 1.2 million people a benefit of around $1,300,000 dollars a head when all is said and done. Why is it wrong to give 44-48 million people a benefit of around $32,600? Try and square that one.
I’m not going to respond to your entire wall of text because much of it is off point, but let’s start with the facts.
As of July 1, 2020, federal student loan rates for undergraduate loans are 2.75%, graduate loans are 4.30%, and Parent PLUS loans are 5.30%. Source: https://www.investopedia.com/student...-rates-5069743 None of those numbers equal “6.5-9%”
Federal student loans do not have “horrible terms”. Nor are the terms oppressive. I took them out (a lot of them, actually, for both undergraduate and law school) and, shockingly, paid them all off in about 7 years. And at a higher interest rate than what the loans are at now. But the terms were not horrible, they were standard. And they were acceptable.
If you are going to enter a program and take out loans to do so, you better be sure that you can complete the program successfully and that you will earn enough to pay back the loans. If you don’t do that sort of due diligence, I’m not about to bail you out and it is insulting to ask anyone else to do so.
Student loans aren’t special. Just like any other debt, it is something taken on voluntarily to achieve an end. Like mortgages, they can help people better themselves and their communities. Like car debt, they can help create jobs and can be used to create mobility. Like credit card debt, they can be used to create opportunities and access to new things.
Lastly, there is a lot of wrong and inequality in this world. That doesn’t mean that we should use it as a reason to create more of it.
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I’m not going to respond to your entire wall of text because much of it is off point, but let’s start with the facts.
No, its all on point, you just may not like being painted into a corner and having to explain your cognitive dissonance on what is acceptable use of government spending and what is not. Frankly it is appalling that we sit by and watch millions of dollars funneled to the already rich and then force the working poor to struggle.
Quote:
As of July 1, 2020, federal student loan rates for undergraduate loans are 2.75%, graduate loans are 4.30%, and Parent PLUS loans are 5.30%. Source: https://www.investopedia.com/student...-rates-5069743 None of those numbers equal “6.5-9%”
Your numbers are bull####. My loans, held by the federal government, are currently 6.65%. My wife's are currently 8.89%, also held by an arm of the Department of Education. There's the rub with what rates are "currently" at. Your loans and rate are locked in when you consolidate and finance them, so a claim of what rates are right now is really disingenuous. Refinance to take advantage of lower interest rates is not a possibility unless you want to penalize yourself.
Quote:
Federal student loans do not have “horrible terms”. Nor are the terms oppressive. I took them out (a lot of them, actually, for both undergraduate and law school) and, shockingly, paid them all off in about 7 years. And at a higher interest rate than what the loans are at now. But the terms were not horrible, they were standard. And they were acceptable.
The terms suck. You were very lucky to have a job that probably paid pretty well (attorney IIRC), and you had the discretionary spending to pay your loans off, or had an employer who would do it for you. But most people don't have that luxury. They are stuck with terms they can't get out from under without penalizing themselves. I seriously doubt you had to worry about being in an income-based repayment plan and having your money budgeted for you. I also doubt you had to worry about forbearance because of you weren't living paycheck to paycheck. Worst of all, you likely didn't have to worry about not having the option to refinance to take advantage of lower rates, helping lower your monthly payment, and then knowing that even if you went bankrupt, those loans would never be discharged. Those are ####ty terms, but because you had a great paying job you were never exposed to the ruthless parts of the loan programs. Walk a mile in the average student's shoes.
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If you are going to enter a program and take out loans to do so, you better be sure that you can complete the program successfully and that you will earn enough to pay back the loans. If you don’t do that sort of due diligence, I’m not about to bail you out and it is insulting to ask anyone else to do so.
I wonder where your outrage was when we bailed out the banks and the automotive industry and the airlines and then every rich swinging dick on Wall Street? Were you this indignant when you funneled millions and billions to individuals who were irresponsible and brought our systems to its knees? Did you have moral outrage then? Or did you save that moral outrage for the millions of people who lost their homes and retirements in the failures of the rich whose only motivation was to get "theirs" and then "get more?" The moral indignation only seems to surface when the poor get something, but when the rich are swimming - Scrooge McDuck fashion - in the money we funnel to them, crickets.
Quote:
Student loans aren’t special. Just like any other debt, it is something taken on voluntarily to achieve an end. Like mortgages, they can help people better themselves and their communities. Like car debt, they can help create jobs and can be used to create mobility. Like credit card debt, they can be used to create opportunities and access to new things.
Yet they are treated as special by the government and by the courts. They are one of the few debts that cannot be discharged or retired in any way other than full repayment. Even if someone goes through bankruptcy the government will still garnish the wages of the destitute to extract the payment as identified by their note holder. That process is unique to student loans and makes them very special. It pained me to see the hopes of students crushed by the reality of student debt being amplified by a sluggish economy that was only working for the uber rich. People trying to better themselves discovering the system is still set up against them and holding them back.
Quote:
Lastly, there is a lot of wrong and inequality in this world. That doesn’t mean that we should use it as a reason to create more of it.
You're right. There is no equity in this world. The rich get their and everyone else gets ####ed. It's time to let those rich pricks have their "eat cake" moment and do something for the proletariat who are only trying to improve their standing and become a rich prick themselves one day. This is more than a fair ask from a system that routinely pisses on the poor and tells them its raining.
Is he so stupid that he doesn’t realize that that would destroy what’s left of the Republican Party?
This would probably seal an impeachment trial conviction as many Republicans would prefer to have him banned from holding an office again rather than have him start a new party.
If he still pursued it without being able to be the candidate (doubtful for a narcissist like him), he will probably be put down before anything comes to fruition.
__________________
"A pessimist thinks things can't get any worse. An optimist knows they can."
No, its all on point, you just may not like being painted into a corner and having to explain your cognitive dissonance on what is acceptable use of government spending and what is not. Frankly it is appalling that we sit by and watch millions of dollars funneled to the already rich and then force the working poor to struggle.
Your numbers are bull####. My loans, held by the federal government, are currently 6.65%. My wife's are currently 8.89%, also held by an arm of the Department of Education. There's the rub with what rates are "currently" at. Your loans and rate are locked in when you consolidate and finance them, so a claim of what rates are right now is really disingenuous. Refinance to take advantage of lower interest rates is not a possibility unless you want to penalize yourself.
The terms suck. You were very lucky to have a job that probably paid pretty well (attorney IIRC), and you had the discretionary spending to pay your loans off, or had an employer who would do it for you. But most people don't have that luxury. They are stuck with terms they can't get out from under without penalizing themselves. I seriously doubt you had to worry about being in an income-based repayment plan and having your money budgeted for you. I also doubt you had to worry about forbearance because of you weren't living paycheck to paycheck. Worst of all, you likely didn't have to worry about not having the option to refinance to take advantage of lower rates, helping lower your monthly payment, and then knowing that even if you went bankrupt, those loans would never be discharged. Those are ####ty terms, but because you had a great paying job you were never exposed to the ruthless parts of the loan programs. Walk a mile in the average student's shoes.
I wonder where your outrage was when we bailed out the banks and the automotive industry and the airlines and then every rich swinging dick on Wall Street? Were you this indignant when you funneled millions and billions to individuals who were irresponsible and brought our systems to its knees? Did you have moral outrage then? Or did you save that moral outrage for the millions of people who lost their homes and retirements in the failures of the rich whose only motivation was to get "theirs" and then "get more?" The moral indignation only seems to surface when the poor get something, but when the rich are swimming - Scrooge McDuck fashion - in the money we funnel to them, crickets.
Yet they are treated as special by the government and by the courts. They are one of the few debts that cannot be discharged or retired in any way other than full repayment. Even if someone goes through bankruptcy the government will still garnish the wages of the destitute to extract the payment as identified by their note holder. That process is unique to student loans and makes them very special. It pained me to see the hopes of students crushed by the reality of student debt being amplified by a sluggish economy that was only working for the uber rich. People trying to better themselves discovering the system is still set up against them and holding them back.
You're right. There is no equity in this world. The rich get their and everyone else gets ####ed. It's time to let those rich pricks have their "eat cake" moment and do something for the proletariat who are only trying to improve their standing and become a rich prick themselves one day. This is more than a fair ask from a system that routinely pisses on the poor and tells them its raining.
I’m on a phone, so I’m not going to cut and paste a rebuttal to each paragraph.
Rants about Trump’s COVID relief is not relevant to student loans issues.
The current interest rates aren’t my numbers. They are the numbers.
I’m aware of consolidating student loans and it’s effects. But locking in a rate at consolidation is a risk you take. Voluntarily, I might add.
The penalization comment about refinancing is interesting. I won’t presume what you mean by that, but I will state that your own comment acknowledges that refinancing is an option—just one that you don’t want to take.
My take from that is that you’d rather not avail yourself of existing options (and possibly regret availing yourself of one previously), which is fine. But then don’t expect others to give you other options that amount to a bailout from the pockets of those who paid off their own loans or never took them out in the first place because they couldn’t afford to do so.
You make many assumptions about my job while I was paying off my student loans. Unfounded and incorrect assumptions. The truth is that I didn’t have a great paying job, deferred a lot of spending, lived like a very broke student for years, and buckled down and paid the loans off. I did it and millions of others have done it.
I was not in favor of bailing out the banks, the car companies, or the homeowners who bought houses way beyond their means.
I would possibly be in favor of allowing student loans to be discharged through bankruptcy, but only on a go-forward basis for new loans. But I would expect any such bankruptcy relief to be conditioned on the to-be-debtor having first being soundly evaluated, much like those who apply for a mortgage or car loan, on their career plan, job options, and educational history and probable chance of success at school.* I suspect that many potential borrowers wouldn’t like that because, chances are, they won’t get to go to their preferred school or study what they want.
But oh well. You want the money? You accept the terms and obligations that come with it.
And if you don’t like the terms or find then to be oppressive or terrible or sucky, then don’t take the money and find another way to attend college and grad school.
But to take the money and spend it, and then turn around and whine about the terms and ask (or demand) for others to pay off your debt just reeks of entitlement, selfishness, and immaturity.
* There are potential problems that could still show up with this, much like the liar loans in the housing market. Fraud could be rampant. Monitoring that the evaluations are done correctly could cost a lot of money. But to just hand out essentially unsecured money that can then be discharged through bankruptcy, well, we might as well just set dollar bills on fire. Which, I guess, is close to what will happen if the government just wipes out all of the student loan debt.
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