When will next season start? Return to Play Negotiations

[nfotiu]

Originally Posted by Sidney Crosby's Hat

Going back to the discussion about the new TV deal, ESPN just signed a 10-year deal with the SEC worth $300 million per year. A massive increase from what CBS was paying ($55 million).

https://www.espn.com/college-footbal...-starting-2024

I feel like the new NHL deal will be split among two or three networks and be worth $800 million to $1 billion per year. One thing that really makes it valuable is the streaming rights. NHL.TV rights in the US are also up (currently owned by Disney). That was previously worth $100 million a year. The previous Disney relationship on that could be a gateway to ESPN getting that package. And with that said, I think other networks might even offer more than ESPN for the whole package. NHL Hockey on Peacock or FOX NOW would be enticing to those companies.

SEC regular season games average 6 million viewers. NHL on NBC SN average 300,000 viewers.

I don't see how that can translate into the NHL getting 3 times more money.

There's probably some bump in the $100 million for nhl.tv. But it's also hard to see a full out of market package selling over $100 million worth of Peacock or ESPN+ subscriptions.

It would be more attractive if it included all in market games, but that would step very heavily on the (for now) lucrative local TV deals.

[Sidney Crosby's Hat]

Originally Posted by Toonage

I wonder if DAZN takes a run at the NHL rights (albeit internationally as Rogers has that locked down here). I recall hearing they weren't doing so hot but pretty sure they still have big backing.

That's a good point. Plus, maybe Yahoo, Twitter, Facebook, Google?

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Toonage

I wonder if DAZN takes a run at the NHL rights (albeit internationally as Rogers has that locked down here). I recall hearing they weren't doing so hot but pretty sure they still have big backing.

Their NFL coverage has improved year over year. Today it's night and day better than it was their first year but as far as I know but they are still using European 50 fps and the image is closer to 7020p than 1080p. Would not be ideal for hockey.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by Bingo

What direct costs? How much?

Not knowing something isn't a problem with the math presented. If you have a known variable I can add, I'd be happy to add it.

You have spent pages assuming that each NHL team does not have anybody working the concessions, working as ushers, selling programs etc. The math you presented is wrong because that is not how HRR is calculated, that is all.

I will try to find the article, but thr athletic had an article that had the direct costs at around 200,000 a game, leaving teams with an average HRR of 1.5 million a game.

At 1.5 million a game × 45 games × 31 teams you would get about 2.1 billion, which would be about 42% of HRR coming from in stadium revenue. I believe the Athletic only calculated direct costs for that game day in their calculation, so if you add ticket reps and other salaried employees who work exclusively on revenue generation, you can probably shave off another couple million per team, which would bring you pretty close to game day revenue making up 36% of revenue, personally I suspect it is around 38%, but it certainly is not anywhere close to half of HRR.

[Always Earned Never Given]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

You have spent pages assuming that each NHL team does not have anybody working the concessions, working as ushers, selling programs etc. The math you presented is wrong because that is not how HRR is calculated, that is all.

I will try to find the article, but thr athletic had an article that had the direct costs at around 200,000 a game, leaving teams with an average HRR of 1.5 million a game.

At 1.5 million a game × 45 games × 31 teams you would get about 2.1 billion, which would be about 42% of HRR coming from in stadium revenue. I believe the Athletic only calculated direct costs for that game day in their calculation, so if you add ticket reps and other salaried employees who work exclusively on revenue generation, you can probably shave off another couple million per team, which would bring you pretty close to game day revenue making up 36% of revenue, personally I suspect it is around 38%, but it certainly is not anywhere close to half of HRR.

Sorry Aaron. In your calculation above did you divide by 2 as a team does not play against itself?

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

You have spent pages assuming that each NHL team does not have anybody working the concessions, working as ushers, selling programs etc. The math you presented is wrong because that is not how HRR is calculated, that is all.

I will try to find the article, but thr athletic had an article that had the direct costs at around 200,000 a game, leaving teams with an average HRR of 1.5 million a game.

At 1.5 million a game × 45 games × 31 teams you would get about 2.1 billion, which would be about 42% of HRR coming from in stadium revenue. I believe the Athletic only calculated direct costs for that game day in their calculation, so if you add ticket reps and other salaried employees who work exclusively on revenue generation, you can probably shave off another couple million per team, which would bring you pretty close to game day revenue making up 36% of revenue, personally I suspect it is around 38%, but it certainly is not anywhere close to half of HRR.

As I said happy to add any relevant information to the table for sure.

In my mind I think "I've spent pages" trying to be as clear as possible in what I'm trying to portray.

No need to be pissy about it.

[DoubleK]

Originally Posted by Sidney Crosby's Hat

That's a good point. Plus, maybe Yahoo, Twitter, Facebook, Google?

I would think Amazon would be in on the streaming rights.

The quality of their stream is incredible. If anyone has yet to watch the NFL on Prime you are really missing out.

[Rick M.]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Their NFL coverage has improved year over year. Today it's night and day better than it was their first year but as far as I know but they are still using European 50 fps and the image is closer to 7020p than 1080p. Would not be ideal for hockey.

I suspect you meant to say 720p. Also, I think most broadcasts are still 1080i.

[FlamesAreOne]

Mid January, 56 games, 28 home, no fans.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by DoubleK

I would think Amazon would be in on the streaming rights.

The quality of their stream is incredible. If anyone has yet to watch the NFL on Prime you are really missing out.

Is this really true? Is it a different stream for Sports than regular Prime Video?

I use Netflix, Disney+, Prime, and Crave, and Netflix is so far ahead on them all in terms of streaming quality that I can't imagine sports look good on any of them.

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

Is this really true? Is it a different stream for Sports than regular Prime Video?

I use Netflix, Disney+, Prime, and Crave, and Netflix is so far ahead on them all in terms of streaming quality that I can't imagine sports look good on any of them.

Hm my reflection is the opposite, I would say Netflix has middle of the road quality, Prime is out front for me (though content could still be improved) while Disney+ has been mediocre streaming quality (Mandalorian excluded- this one always comes through wonderfully.)

I find my Netflix apps on my TVs need to be reset the most out of any streaming services. Not sure why.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

Hm my reflection is the opposite, I would say Netflix has middle of the road quality, Prime is out front for me (though content could still be improved) while Disney+ has been mediocre streaming quality (Mandalorian excluded- this one always comes through wonderfully.)

I find my Netflix apps on my TVs need to be reset the most out of any streaming services. Not sure why.

I must be doing something wrong then. I stream on both consoles and a Samsung TV and Prime/Disney+ are just awful in terms of artifacting/blur/whatever.

[MrMike]

I’d take any of them honestly. The streaming service that is the worst on my PS4 was the NHL Rogers live/Game Center whatever. Low def, speeding up/pausing, just stopping randomly. Drives me crazy.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

You have spent pages assuming that each NHL team does not have anybody working the concessions, working as ushers, selling programs etc. The math you presented is wrong because that is not how HRR is calculated, that is all.

I will try to find the article, but thr athletic had an article that had the direct costs at around 200,000 a game, leaving teams with an average HRR of 1.5 million a game.

At 1.5 million a game × 45 games × 31 teams you would get about 2.1 billion, which would be about 42% of HRR coming from in stadium revenue. I believe the Athletic only calculated direct costs for that game day in their calculation, so if you add ticket reps and other salaried employees who work exclusively on revenue generation, you can probably shave off another couple million per team, which would bring you pretty close to game day revenue making up 36% of revenue, personally I suspect it is around 38%, but it certainly is not anywhere close to half of HRR.

It's Hockey Related Revenues, not Hockey Related Profits

[DoubleK]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

Is this really true? Is it a different stream for Sports than regular Prime Video?

I have only really watched NFL on Prime. It's far better than Telus cable. Flipping back and forth and the difference is noticeable.

[Reggie Dunlop]

The ECHL started their season tonight. No Flames notables on the Kansas City Mavericks affiliate according to their roster.

I was wondering if the Flames might put a few ELCs there while Stockton is still grounded but it appears not be the case. Only the Euros are loaned to European leagues.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

It's Hockey Related Revenues, not Hockey Related Profits

I guess you and Bingo have never read the CBA because it is net of direct costs. That means that you can deduct the direct costs related to creating the revenue (like deductions on your taxes).

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

I guess you and Bingo have never read the CBA because it is net of direct costs. That means that you can deduct the direct costs related to creating the revenue (like deductions on your taxes).

Hmm this is interesting sorry I honestly don’t and want to understand but are you saying that under the CBA Revenue is an after cost line item?

I always thought revenue was always before any costs. Then comes EBITDA, Net Income which are after expenses / cash flow statement etc.

Also, you’ve actually read the CBA?

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

It's Hockey Related Revenues, not Hockey Related Profits

The revenue term is misleading as the CBA specifically allows for deduction of direct costs. Concessions are a good example. HRR only includes the profit after the cost of food, preparation etc.

So yeah taking the typical costs of a hockey ticket and what you spend on concessions is an over estimation of what you are contributing to HRR.

[Mr.Coffee]

Interesting so the Hockey Related Revenue is an actual line item they kind of made up basically?