Flames' Pride Night slotted for March 28 vs. LA

[KootenayFlamesFan]

Originally Posted by Yamer

Nope, that was actually my dumb mistake. My brain is completely fried lately.

I'm sorry, KFF. I misread that entirely.

Since this is the second time I'm apologizing to members within the last 24 hours it's maybe best I take a break for reasons more concerning myself than the community.

You don't need to take a break, or apologize. It's all good. I could very well be wrong, I'm not even sure. I think it was a joke.......? But again, I'm getting older and I misread things quite easily.

[jayswin]

I know thread derails don't get angrily and immediately shut down when they get taken over by endless middle age dad jokes, or any number of off topic drivel. I mean it's literally an ongoing joke that threads will morph to any number of player discussions.

Something was different here, it was anger towards what was being said.

[cam_calderon]

You're right but isn't curtailing thread derailing most of the mods' job?

[The Big Chill]

Originally Posted by Goriders

Let me watch the hockey in peace.

If everybody was free to do this then none of these ‘politics’ would be getting shoved in your face. Pride night is literally about allowing everybody to go to a game and watch in peace..

[kipperiggy]

Originally Posted by Yamer

Nope, that was actually my dumb mistake. My brain is completely fried lately.

I'm sorry, KFF. I misread that entirely.

Since this is the second time I'm apologizing to members within the last 24 hours it's maybe best I take a break for reasons more concerning myself than the community.

For what it's worth I read that post as completely serious too. It wasn't the first time that poster had complained in the thread.

[kipperiggy]

Originally Posted by jayswin

I know thread derails don't get angrily and immediately shut down when they get taken over by endless middle age dad jokes, or any number of off topic drivel. I mean it's literally an ongoing joke that threads will morph to any number of player discussions.

Something was different here, it was anger towards what was being said.

Not to mention, it wasn't butterfly's original comment that brought "politics" into it. It was the subsequent posts, thanked by almost 100 posters.

Conroy got a pretty decent haul here.

Now we flip the LGBTphobe for another pick and we are golden.

Then the first three responses:

Can we give the guy a chance before we label him and run him out of town? I don't believe his stance matters. If he can score 40 goals, why can't hockey be about hockey? That's my point.

Okay, we heard ya the first time.

Please don't ruin the best thread of the season by bringing politics into it. Can we just celebrate the Flames making a trade that helps moves this team in the right direction

And then it just got worse and more hateful from there.

Sadly, not a lot of posters even seem to realize, or care.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Well, Kuzmenko is a bit of a weird case for this stuff because he's about as Russian as it gets. That event occurred literally months after he first emigrated from Russia, and based on the limited press statements that were out there his family's stance was what led him not to wear it - it legitimately sounded like he called home and during the conversation said "they wear rainbow jerseys here, isn't that weird" or something, and his parents told him "NO SON OF MINE..." he largely participated in the evening itself outside of wearing the jerseys.

As discussed when this first came up and all the Staal / Reimer nonsense happened, there really are two levels to players not wearing the pride jerseys. One was, "I'm disappointed that this person won't participate in this event which is intended to foster inclusivity in a sport that has traditionally not been welcoming to LGBTQ+ people", which is for the players who don't wear the jersey and say "I'm not wearing this for personal reasons and will have no further comment". That, as noted, is disappointing, but it doesn't in my view warrant a "well #### that guy" reaction.

Then there's the players who say "I'm not wearing this for personal reasons and will now tell you all about why I don't support the 'choice' gay people make and what my personal beliefs are in an attempt to make this event as much about me as I possibly can". And yeah. #### that guy.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by jayswin

I know thread derails don't get angrily and immediately shut down when they get taken over by endless middle age dad jokes, or any number of off topic drivel. I mean it's literally an ongoing joke that threads will morph to any number of player discussions.

Something was different here, it was anger towards what was being said.

That’s what I found most off-putting about the whole thing. It was very clearly about what was being said.

Originally Posted by cam_calderon

You're right but isn't curtailing thread derailing most of the mods' job?

Did you not read the above post? Threads get derailed all the time. In fact, that very same thread got derailed into some meta-discussion about how one individual poster’s perception on the deal changed and mods said… absolutely nothing. Because nobody cares when threads get derailed, everyone just chooses whether to engage with the new direction or not (and mostly people simply just don’t).

It’s pretty interesting that mods felt the need to interject on that particular derail by singling out the people who felt it was important to bring up but not the people shouting them down and telling them to “#### off loser”…

But casual anti-LGBTQ+ rhetoric seems to be more acceptable than thread derails around here anyway.

[Yeah_Baby]

A post was left up yesterday suggesting queer folks didn't exist until recently, which I find disappointing.

[The Fonz]

Originally Posted by TrentCrimmIndependent

It's what people in social psychology call modern 'implicit' prejudice: A form of prejudice that surfaces in more subtle ways when it is deemed safe, socially acceptable and easy to rationalize, presented under a cloud/guise of ambiguity (literally out of a textbook).

Aka statements like: I just don't want it around sports ..but I have nothing against it.

Often justified with statements like "It's okay, some of my closest friends are x race/orientation".

If it's not an issue and anybody can present/associate themselves how they like, as these posters claim, then why can't it have a place in sports?

Sports include people of all backgrounds and orientations.

Originally Posted by jayswin

Something was different here, it was anger towards what was being said.

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

That’s what I found most off-putting about the whole thing. It was very clearly about what was being said.

I assume these are directed toward me, as I was one of the members who clearly didn't care about his personal stance, and didn't want the discussion steered down that road.

I just want to reiterate my thoughts, posted long ago in this very thread, on the NHL's participation in ANYTHING related to that which is not hockey:

Originally Posted by The Fonz

If this is part of a larger decision, specifically, doing away with all themed nights and political stances, and trotting out police officers, emergency workers, veterans, etc - then I'm all for it. Also do away with the national anthems while you're at it. Just play hockey and sell your sport.

If this is singling out Pride though, and not extending to every other support/movement, then it's horrendous and I hope the players choose not to tolerate it.

Originally Posted by The Fonz

I wonder if the players are allowed to use camo stick tape during a military themed night?

They shouldn't be, if the NHL is going to be consistent on not putting players into any potential political spotlight.

If the NHL has a military support night and Kuzmenko (or anyone else) does not wear that themed jersey, I do not care.

I tune into sports to watch athletes play those sports, not to watch any corporate pandering to LGBTQ+, military, emergency workers, indigenous history, religion, etc etc etc. I watch sports for sports-related entertainment & storylines, nothing else.

I guess where I will differ with many is, there is a portion of the audience that believe these NHL corporate shows of support for different causes & movements is sports-related. Some will believe it is the athletes duty. I couldn't disagree more - my opinion is that it has nothing to do with the game.

[gvitaly]

I find a lot of the comments about Russians in this thread to be low-key racist. I understand you guys are trying to explain/rationalize Kuzmenko’s choices, and don't mean anything bad by it. That said, in no place did he point to being Russian as a factor in his decision.

So you guys are making a lot of assumptions because of this one statement:

Speaking through a translator — teammate Vitali Kravtsov — Kuzmenko declined to explain the decision after Vancouver lost 5-4 in overtime.

“He respects everybody and everybody’s choices,” said Kravtsov, who was a healthy scratch for the game. “And he asks can you respect his choice, too, and his family.”

How do we get from this to "No son of mine..."? Am I missing a key interview or comment Kuzmenko made about the subject?

At the same time I acknowledge that it is illegal for individuals to "promote homosexuality" in Russia, especially to minors. However same sex couples are legal, and everything that happens between two consenting adults is more that legal. For example both Moscow and St. Petersburg have thriving LGBT communities.

[cam_calderon]

Moscow and St Petersburg have thriving LGBT communities, really?

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

The only information that came out was that he decided against wearing the jerseys after speaking with his family, who are in Russia. So that's how it came across, particularly in contrast with his generally easygoing "wow what a wild ride I seem to be on here" attitude towards his first year in the NHL generally and even that event in particular.

As for racism, give me a ####ing break. That's up there for dumbest claim in a thread replete with dumb claims.

[kipperiggy]

Poster A: "I wish we didn't get Kuzmenko because his skating is poor like Tkachuk's or Draisatl's"

Response: "Yeah, but then those guys improved, maybe Kuzmenko will too."

Poster B: "I wish we didn't get Kuzmenko because he wouldn't wear the Pride jersey."

Response: "GTFO, keep politics out of sports."

Um, the angry people are the ones that brought politics into the discussion, not poster B.

[kipperiggy]

Originally Posted by KootenayFlamesFan

Okay, I guess I better step in here. This comment really took me by surprise.

I wasn't trying to shut down opposing viewpoints. I don't care if people have different opinions than I do. Such is life. But as I was reading the thread about a trade it seemed like the discussion was skewing more and more towards Kuzmenko's LGBTQ stance and less and less about the trade, which was the whole point of the thread. It would get on track and then another post about Kuzmenko's stance. Rinse and repeat. I get it, he's part of the trade. But I know I wasn't the only one getting a bit annoyed when we kept stopping talking about the trade and talking more and more about his stance. Like......we get it. It's a great hockey trade, let's talk about it for a few minutes.

I didn't give any infractions. Didn't ban anyone. Didn't close the thread. There's the OT forum, there's this thread, there's multiple places to have that discussion here. Which is fine with me. In fact, it's great. But politics is involved now in so much we read about sports that we can't even just have a fun hockey trade without having to talk about something negative or controversial yet again. It's draining.

It's a Calgary Flames hockey board. Sometimes people here just want to talk about hockey. Especially when a big trade happens. That's all. Hope you get why I was getting annoyed.

Here's the thing ... you or another mod probably could have given an infraction. People were going off on butterfly and Yamer for no real reason. jayswin and Pepsifree have it right in this thread - why did this derail get met so angrily.

You don't need to tell marginalized folks how draining it is. I guarantee, it's more draining for us.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by gvitaly

Most people that disagrees with a minority on various issues don't hate that minority. Some people here just enjoy giving the majority a guilt trip, all for righteous reasons I'm sure.

People here have already attempted to question if I really believe in equality, despite me specifically stating that and them having no proof otherwise. I'm sure guys like pepsi have already called me a bigot too, luckily he's on my ignore list, so I don't really see those comments. All that despite me stating the exact reasons for the lack of my support.

If Kuzmenko actively abused someone for being a member of the LGBT community, then sure take out the pitchforks. Otherwise, he has the same rights and freedoms as everyone else. Your opinion on how things should be done doesn't supersede that. People can disagree, and don't have to support certain aspects of your community, or culture.

Originally Posted by gvitaly

I find a lot of the comments about Russians in this thread to be low-key racist.

This writes itself.

Share harmful misinformation as the excuse for why you can’t support the LGBTQ+ community?

“How righteous of you to question me without proof!”

Point to Russia’s well-documented issues and regressive positions towards LGBTQ+ people as a reason why a Russian might be uncomfortable wearing a pride jersey?

“That’s racist.”

Like, it’s OK to share actual misinformation about LGBTQ+ people and if anyone questions you then they’re the #######, but if people even reference Russia’s horrible record and public perception on LGBTQ+ issues, then that’s “low-key racist.”

Hilarious.

That aside, hiding bigotry behind lame double-speak is one thing, at least there is a cost to actually just coming out and being who you are. Want to hide? Hide, go wild. But playing the whole “I have this person on ignore but I will randomly bring them up with specific references to their posts” bit on top of it is just a little TOO cowardly to take seriously.

[Goriders]

Originally Posted by The Big Chill

If everybody was free to do this then none of these ‘politics’ would be getting shoved in your face. Pride night is literally about allowing everybody to go to a game and watch in peace..

Ok perfect. Then we can shut this thread down?

[TheIronMaiden]

Originally Posted by The Big Chill

If everybody was free to do this then none of these ‘politics’ would be getting shoved in your face. Pride night is literally about allowing everybody to go to a game and watch in peace..

I agree with you, but in Calgary Alberta can't they?

[KootenayFlamesFan]

Originally Posted by Yeah_Baby

A post was left up yesterday suggesting queer folks didn't exist until recently, which I find disappointing.

I can't speak for other mods but I will say often I pop in here for a few minutes then get busy with life and and then will pop in again later in the day. Or not at all. Or I'm at work all day. Things get missed. Please don't take a poor post left up as us condoning it. I will take a look.

[Yeah_Baby]

Originally Posted by KootenayFlamesFan

I can't speak for other mods but I will say often I pop in here for a few minutes then get busy with life and and then will pop in again later in the day. Or not at all. Or I'm at work all day. Things get missed. Please don't take a poor post left up as us condoning it. I will take a look.

Yeah, I get it.