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Old 11-13-2017, 07:43 AM   #21
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Doesnt it seem as if both ticket prices and the amount cable tv rights will go for, have hit their peaks and will start to decline. Have to think this is the height of pro sports team valuations and they are due for a correction.
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Old 11-13-2017, 07:51 AM   #22
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I haven't been to a game in years....Combo of better value for my entertainment dollars and a feeling that the Flames ####ting in the hand that feeds them.
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Old 11-13-2017, 08:04 AM   #23
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Out of curiosity, do you know any specifics of how it changed?
IIRC, someone used to distribute unsold tickets to charities?
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Old 11-13-2017, 08:09 AM   #24
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It's really expensive to attend the game. Not just hockey, I've been to 3 football games this year (Atl, Den, Sea) and there was lots of empty seats in those stadiums as well.
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Old 11-13-2017, 08:54 AM   #25
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That Sunday game against the Devils was the very snowy day wasn't it?. We almost didn't go ourselves. May have affected numbers perhaps?
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Old 11-13-2017, 09:27 AM   #26
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Doesnt it seem as if both ticket prices and the amount cable tv rights will go for, have hit their peaks and will start to decline. Have to think this is the height of pro sports team valuations and they are due for a correction.
Yep, absolutely. They had a good thing going, but got too greedy.
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Old 11-13-2017, 09:44 AM   #27
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From an economic standpoint, tickets are perfectly priced. If the building is always full you aren't charging enough.
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Old 11-13-2017, 10:02 AM   #28
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Doesnt it seem as if both ticket prices and the amount cable tv rights will go for, have hit their peaks and will start to decline. Have to think this is the height of pro sports team valuations and they are due for a correction.
Couldn't agree more. I think we are very close to "peak sports" in some markets/leagues. Some of the lower profile leagues/sports have already started declining.

CFL is declining.

The NLL is declining.

Arena football went bankrupt. They have 5 teams left and will likely cease to exist within the next year or two.

Nascar is declining.

Boxing is declining.

UFC is declining.

The only sports leagues in North America that seem to be growing are the NBA, MLS and E-sports. They will hit their peak sooner or later as well.
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Old 11-13-2017, 10:10 AM   #29
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I would suspect there are a lot of season ticket holders or company seats that go unused. I know quite a few people who often can’t go and aren’t able to find any takers so the seats go unused. I also know of a guy who if he doesn’t get a premium parking pass for that game, he doesn’t even bother going. The ultra well off folks are willing to eat the cost of tickets sometimes and that ultimately affects the visible attendance.

Also, do the sport chek zone seats count in the final numbers as well? I find those seats to be the least popular and are always half empty.
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Old 11-13-2017, 10:10 AM   #30
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From an economic standpoint, tickets are perfectly priced. If the building is always full you aren't charging enough.
I think you could make an argument against that.

Scarcity and perceived scarcity are important factors at work too.

If your average ticket price is $70 for example, and at that price season tickets are sold out, you have a strong waiting list, and secondary ticket prices are probably going to be a little higher than season ticket prices. People will want to hold on to their tickets for their perceived value and scarcity.

If you price your tickets at the absolute highest threshold the public is willing to spend to maximize revenue for that season, then you start to have people cancelling their season tickets, which leads to more single game tickets available, which leads to lower secondary values, which leads to less perceived value for season ticket holders, which leads to more season ticket holders giving up tickets, and so on.

When you get to the point when secondary tickets are going for half of what the team is selling season tickets for, you've messed up the whole economic equation and will eventually hurt your bottom line.
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Old 11-13-2017, 10:20 AM   #31
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It's the economy and a pro sports thing in general for me. People have more options and have HD TV.
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Old 11-13-2017, 10:22 AM   #32
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Couldn't agree more. I think we are very close to "peak sports" in some markets/leagues. Some of the lower profile leagues/sports have already started declining.

CFL is declining.

The NLL is declining.

Arena football went bankrupt. They have 5 teams left and will likely cease to exist within the next year or two.

Nascar is declining.

Boxing is declining.

UFC is declining.

The only sports leagues in North America that seem to be growing are the NBA, MLS and E-sports. They will hit their peak sooner or later as well.
The millennial generation and younger generations going forward seem to be less interested in sports. I use to work part time at company that hired a lot of young 90% college students and they didn’t give a rat ass about the Flames or sports in general. They loved their snapchat, netflix, online games and preferred to spend their time in hipster coffee shops or bars rather then watch or attend a game.

Professional sport leagues will cease to exist in its current format at some point in the near future. E-sports will likely be the dominant league as gaming/virtual reality technology continues to advance and we’ll see a shift in marketing dollars funnelling through these avenues instead.

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Old 11-13-2017, 10:29 AM   #33
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Yep, absolutely. They had a good thing going, but got too greedy.


The NHL sports team business model is really not that profitable (plenty of points and sources shown in the arena thread), so not really about greed. It's more of how costs have gotten so high now.
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Old 11-13-2017, 10:31 AM   #34
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The millennial generation and younger generations going forward seem to be less interested in sports. I use to work part time at company that hired a lot of young 90% college students and they didn’t give a rat ass about the Flames or sports in general. They loved their snapchat, netflix, online games and preferred to spend their time in hipster coffee shops or bars rather then watch or attend a game.

Professional sport leagues will cease to exist in its current format at some point in the near future. E-sports will likely be the dominant league as gaming/virtual reality technology continues to advance and we’ll see a shift in marketing dollars funnelling through these avenues instead.

I'm no dinosaur and I know that esports will be a factor in the future.

But I can't subscribe to the idea that esports will outpace traditional sports. 5 million people came out for the Cubs' World Series parade last year. People are still invested in their local sports, and I'll warrant they always will be.
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Old 11-13-2017, 10:36 AM   #35
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Admittedly my life is different than it was when I used to go to as many games as possible, but you would think I'm in the perfect demographic for the flames. Mid 30s dad who makes decent money (I'm no CP average, but I do ok).

I just can't bring myself to dropping hundreds of dollars on a 2.5 hour event. Let's say the three of us go, that's ~250 for seats, ~40 food, ~20 beer, ~10 parking, 320 dollars and it's a 50/50 chance that the game isn't fun. The closest I come to spending that amount on other forms of entertainment is a live show at the theater, but for that I have a pretty good idea it's going to be entertaining based on reviews.

I dunno. I'm stuck between believing my own argument and just thinking I'm becoming a grumpy old man.
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Old 11-13-2017, 10:39 AM   #36
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You can't beat the live atmosphere of going to a game. But that's all you can't beat.

From the couch, Beer is better and cheaper and I can drink as much as I want without being worried about a DUI. I can pause the game and then fast forward through stoppages.
Play by play - especially with Ball and Hrudey making the TV experience a ton of fun.

I wonder if and how much VR development for spectating sports will effect ticket sales in the future.
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Old 11-13-2017, 10:41 AM   #37
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You can't beat the live atmosphere of going to a game. But that's all you can't beat.

From the couch, Beer is better and cheaper and I can drink as much as I want without being worried about a DUI. I can pause the game and then fast forward through stoppages.
Play by play - especially with Ball and Hrudey making the TV experience a ton of fun.

I wonder if and how much VR development for spectating sports will effect ticket sales in the future.
That's a tough sell when the atmosphere is pretty dull at 80% of regular season games.
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Old 11-13-2017, 10:42 AM   #38
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The NHL sports team business model is really not that profitable (plenty of points and sources shown in the arena thread), so not really about greed. It's more of how costs have gotten so high now.
The costs are mostly salaries of players and off-ice personnel. Costs have gotten high because they pay each other a lot.
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Old 11-13-2017, 10:43 AM   #39
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Count me in as one of those folks that thinks given the cost and effort to get there and the possibility that the game may be boring, add in the fact that at the end of the day the money is spent on an experience versus something tangible. In my life I have usually selected spending money on tangible things.

I assume those numbers are ultimately provided by the flames, so they can be spun into whatever they want them to be.
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Old 11-13-2017, 10:47 AM   #40
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The costs are mostly salaries of players and off-ice personnel. Costs have gotten high because they pay each other a lot.


Agreed, these are op costs though, not greed from the owners.

Unfortunately we live in a world where everyone wants to be paid more.

You think the correction may happen with the salary cap, but I can almost guarantee the PA would push against it, we will have another lockout, and to end it, salaries will have go up which means ticket prices will go up.

There's bound to be a breaking point one day.
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