Ongoing US Mass Shooting Thread

[oldschoolcalgary]

Originally Posted by missdpuck

I remember a couple of years ago a car dealer near Orlando was giving them away with a pickup truck purchase.

I don’t get why this kid had such easy access to the school. The high school here has a security area that even a mail truck can’t get through without being let in.

Maybe because it was Parkland, the Mayberry of Broward County and nothing’s supposed to happen there.

Seriously, when someone asks “where’s the best place to raise kids in South Florida” , Parkland is usually number one.


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sadly, gun violence in the US happens everywhere...not just "bad" neighborhoods

[theinfinitejar]

Originally Posted by foshizzle11

This is incredible. How has nobody in the US dealt with this problem? Just incredibly stupid, wow.

And another AR-15 used in the car wash shooting linked above. Why are these still available? Get rid of them already.

It is only going to continue to get worse.

AR-15s aren't even banned in Canada, there's no way it's ever happening in the States.

The difference is here you have to go through a lot more hoops and background checks to get one.

EDIT: To add on to this: the US treats fully automatic rifles kind of like how we treat rifles like the AR15, and surprise, it works. Banning one model of gun isn't going to do jack, actually giving your background checks and certifications some teeth certainly helps.

[missdpuck]

I have a rough time posting links on my phone.

Anyway, just came out that the bomb squad is in a Lantana trailer park (east-central Palm Beach county - close to an hour north of the school shooting) and whatever’s going on is tied to the shooting.

They’ll be executing a search warrant within the next few hours .

Apparently law enforcement started knocking on doors there at 4 this afternoon.

We had another oddball thing here the other day- guy shot 3 people and then tried suicide by car by driving wrong way down 95.

As we say here “ it just keeps getting betterer and betterer”!

Then there are the folks that try to beat our new Brightline train which will eventually connect Miami and Orlando.

Brilliance all the way around.


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[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by missdpuck

I remember a couple of years ago a car dealer near Orlando was giving them away with a pickup truck purchase.

I don’t get why this kid had such easy access to the school. The high school here has a security area that even a mail truck can’t get through without being let in.

Maybe because it was Parkland, the Mayberry of Broward County and nothing’s supposed to happen there.

Seriously, when someone asks “where’s the best place to raise kids in South Florida” , Parkland is usually number one.


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It would appear he shot his way in effectively, first two dead outside school then entered pulled fire alarm and shot up the hallway as the kids left their classes

[Mr.Coffee]

Why aren't Americans doing anything about this?

I'm sure many of you have all heard or seen similar figures, but it's worth repeating for the sake of the dead today if it educates any Americans that come across this site. So let's just take a look at some (sad, pathetic and disgusting) numbers:

- The US has 29.7 homicides by firearm / 1,000,000 people. The next closest is Switzerland at ~7.7....
- The US has ~4.5% of the global population, but >40% of gun related deaths.
- States with more guns, have more gun deaths (related, it's not just the US; countries with more guns, have more gun deaths).
- States with tighter gun controls, have less gun related deaths.
- Most gun deaths are suicides (looks like roughly about 2/3 suicides, 1/3 homicides in the US)
- States with the most guns, report the most suicides
- Guns enable people to kill themselves much more easily
- Programs that limit access to guns have decreased suicide rates
- States with more guns see more cops get killed by guns
- High profile shootings don't appear to lead to more support for gun control

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-polit...cs-maps-charts

13,286 Americans were killed by guns in 2015 (this excludes suicides). In 2013, it was 11,208 (with 21,175 suicides for a total of 33,636).

33,600 people in 2013.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-34996604
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_vi..._United_States

_____________________________________

In the entire Vietnam War, 58,220 Americans died. American involvement in this war lasted 8 years from 1965 to 1973 (so, an average of 7,277 Americans / year in Vietnam were killed or, ~6,000 less Americans than just plain old gun violence killing people on an annual basis today if compared to murder or ~25,000 less people if including suicides.

"During the course of the Vietnam War a large segment of the American population came to be opposed to U.S. involvement in South Vietnam. Public opinion steadily turned against the war following 1967 and by 1970 only a third of Americans believed that the U.S. had not made a mistake by sending troops to fight in Vietnam"

"High-profile opposition to the Vietnam War turned to street protests in an effort to turn U.S. political opinion. On 15 October 1969, the Vietnam Moratorium attracted millions of Americans.[227] Riots broke out at the 1968 Democratic National Convention during protests against the war.[228] After news reports of American military abuses such as the 1968 My Lai Massacre, brought new attention and support to the anti-war movement, some veterans joined Vietnam Veterans Against the War. The fatal shooting of four students at Kent State University in 1970 led to nationwide university protests.[229] Anti-war protests ended with the final withdrawal of troops after the Paris Peace Accords were signed in 1973. South Vietnam was left to defend itself alone when the fighting resumed. Many South Vietnamese subsequently fled to the United States"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vietna...964%E2%80%9373

Why haven't Americans protested the lack of action on gun control or other regulation? This problem is WORSE THAN, the Vietnam War which triggered mass nation-wide protests and revolt including the 'hippy' movement. Why isn't more being done?

_________________________________________________

American Revolution

More Americans die every year from gun homicides than the entire amount of American deaths in the American Revolution, and by a wide margin too. Which is kind of ironic given the impetus of the Second Amendment.

_________________________________________________

9/11, Afghanistan & Iraq

On an annual basis, American gun homicides (not including suicides), kill ~4x the number of Americans kill on September 11, 2001 (11x if you include suicides).

- 9/11 spurred the War in Afghanistan which is still ongoing today. This entire war has seen 2,271 Americans die.

- The Iraq war lasted for 8 years and killed 4,497 Americans.

- The price tag for these wars cost the US $2.4 TRILLION. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Financ..._delayed_costs

______________________________________________

World War I killed Americans at a rate roughly 1.5x the annual rate Americans shoot themselves and World War II killed Americans at a rate of ~3.5x more than the annual rate Americans shoot themselves.

____________________________________________

This is absolutely unbelievably insane. The fact there isn't WAY more protests, WAY more push back, WAY more uprisings, civil disobedience, etc. in the US today over this issue is a sad and kind of shocking indictment on the American people. The lack of compassion for fellow Americans definitely could not be lower than at any point in that country's history.

Honestly? The fact that the NRA can simply leverage its' government purchasing power to block regulation and/or restrictions on gun ownership, and that there's no equivalent movement on the side of leveraging politicians on the other side of the debate in order to enact regulation or gun restrictions, is a sad, pathetic indictment on the American people.

This is one of the most shameful displays of civil obedience to policies or government inaction potentially in world history? Has there ever been a nation on earth or group that has been so reluctant to initiate change on such a glaringly obvious problem? And all this is over what, greed? Just money?

What a shameful, embarrassing display by Americans on this tragic life and death issue. We're talking an elementary school filled with kids getting blown away. How did this not force the change? WTF is wrong with Americans? How have people not tried to fundraise to play the game the NRA is playing in order to implement gun regulations or restrictions? Why are there no mass major protests over this? How have no key NRA members / leaders been murdered themselves over this?!? How have no republican leaders or Congress members not been attacked, murdered, etc. over this?? I just can't understand this inaction!

Aren't the NRA's actions in buying government inaction an inherent declaration of war on Americans themselves????

How have Americans decided that spending $2.4 trillion on wars in worth more than what the cost would be to institute change within their own country?

Americans are the biggest danger to Americans and by a staggeringly large margin here. Americans have to fix this cluster themselves, but it will take caring more about Americans and their fellow person than money.

[missdpuck]

Yes, I did hear that he actually shot through the windows from the outside.

Still odd that he could get on the grounds; at least it would be tough at the high school I’m thinking of in Delray.


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[meritmat]

Originally Posted by missdpuck

Yes, I did hear that he actually shot through the windows from the outside.

Still odd that he could get on the grounds; at least it would be tough at the high school I’m thinking of in Delray.


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Remember hes a former student, so he knows the school. Not some random guy attacking a building

[Mr.Coffee]

Since 1998 the NRA has spent $203MM on politics.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-me...ch-nra-spends/

Let's say just 1/2 the 33,600 Americans that died in 2013 had jobs, and the average American salary is $50,000 (seems reasonable). That's $1.68B removed from the economy in salaries (per year). If the average tax rate is 35% (guessing, seems reasonably conservative), that's $588,000,000 in one year eliminated from the government coffers.

How much has the US government given up in tax by letting all these people die and letting the NRA continue to lobby the country in such a vile repulsive manner?

Key NRA members should be in jail or at least on trial for war crimes against Americans. And arguably so should members of Congress that have accepted lobbying payment of same. Is there no fiduciary duty when you join politics in the States?

[missdpuck]

Originally Posted by meritmat

Remember hes a former student, so he knows the school. Not some random guy attacking a building

True. He was, however, expelled and not supposed to be on the grounds.

There should’ve been something in place for that, as unrealistic as that sounds.

There are other schools that manage to do that.


Parkland was named safest city in Florida for 2017.

Yes, that doesn’t matter as things can happen anywhere. It could, however, have contributed to a false sense of security for the high school.

Deerfield Beach High, my dubious Alma mater, has managed to keep questionable students off of the campus.

I’m just saying that the level of security I’ve seen at other schools has me questioning this one.

Luckily you’re in a place where you don’t have to see that!

People who live down here, or who want to move here, are desperate to hear that someplace is safe.


They don’t realize that nowhere is really safe at this point.


I was really surprised the first time I delivered mail to the new Atlantic High School in Delray.

I’m the frigging mail lady, in a mail truck, and I had to call like 3 people to get in.

That’s the kind of comparison I’m making and have experience with.

Just imo , that high school seemed to be in lala land.
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[meritmat]

Originally Posted by missdpuck

True. He was, however, expelled and not supposed to be on the grounds.

There should’ve been something in place for that, as unrealistic as that sounds.

There are other schools that manage to do that.

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Other then an armed guard, nothing. If memory serves at Sandy Hook the shooter shot out a window and entered.

Sadly when this happens the only thing that can solve it is somebody else with a BIGGER gun.

[missdpuck]

Originally Posted by meritmat

Other then an armed guard, nothing. If memory serves at Sandy Hook the shooter shot out a window and entered.

Sadly when this happens the only thing that can solve it is somebody else with a BIGGER gun.

Yeah. The argument I always hear is that someone with a concealed carry permit could have prevented such and such a shooting.

Unfortunately/fortunately there are armed guards!

Just from delivering mail I could say, well, security is lax at school x; something could happen. At school y; most likely not.

But you are correct in that if they want to do it, they’ll find a way.

So sad and frustrating.


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[oldschoolcalgary]

Originally Posted by missdpuck

True. He was, however, expelled and not supposed to be on the grounds.

There should’ve been something in place for that, as unrealistic as that sounds.

There are other schools that manage to do that.


Parkland was named safest city in Florida for 2017.

Yes, that doesn’t matter as things can happen anywhere. It could, however, have contributed to a false sense of security for the high school.

Deerfield Beach High, my dubious Alma mater, has managed to keep questionable students off of the campus.

I’m just saying that the level of security I’ve seen at other schools has me questioning this one.

Luckily you’re in a place where you don’t have to see that!

People who live down here, or who want to move here, are desperate to hear that someplace is safe.


They don’t realize that nowhere is really safe at this point.


I was really surprised the first time I delivered mail to the new Atlantic High School in Delray.

I’m the frigging mail lady, in a mail truck, and I had to call like 3 people to get in.

That’s the kind of comparison I’m making and have experience with.

Just imo , that high school seemed to be in lala land.
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hate to say it, but maybe someone helped the kid to get in? not as a conspiracy necessarily... but was tricked by the shooter using another reason that might have seemed legit?

Deerfield Beach HS? Alma Mater of former Michigan QB Denard Robinson right?

a bit of a tangent, but how did you come to be a fan of the Flames if you grew up in Florida (if i am understanding correctly).

[meritmat]

yes sadly we never hear the near missed, they don't make a news(

[missdpuck]

Originally Posted by oldschoolcalgary

hate to say it, but maybe someone helped the kid to get in? not as a conspiracy necessarily... but was tricked by the shooter using another reason that might have seemed legit?



Deerfield Beach HS? Alma Mater of former Michigan QB Denard Robinson right?



a bit of a tangent, but how did you come to be a fan of the Flames if you grew up in Florida (if i am understanding correctly).

You can thank Ference and especially Montador.

Strange story in a way.

RIP Monty.

Oh, lived in New Joisey till age 15.


Definitely possible that the shooter could’ve weaseled his way in through somebody.

It will be interesting to see what happens with the bomb squad at the Lantana trailer park!

Who knows, maybe he did have a helper
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[missdpuck]

Oh, yes to Denard.

And since we’re on the NFL, Brandon Flowers is the son of my friends/coworkers.

His dad still works 10-12 or more hours a day delivering mail.

Yo , Lip!!!!


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[oldschoolcalgary]

Originally Posted by missdpuck

Oh, yes to Denard.

And since we’re on the NFL, Brandon Flowers is the son of my friends/coworkers.

His dad still works 10-12 or more hours a day delivering mail.

Yo , Lip!!!!


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oh really?

that's really cool... i remember reading a great story on Richard Sherman's dad who stayed humble too... i believe he worked for the sanitation department in SF, and he was still there even after Sherman hit it big....

i like those stories where the parents do so much for their kids and don't expect anything out of it...

[OMG!WTF!]

They've got bulletproof whiteboards now...

https://www.hardwirellc.com/collecti...of-whiteboards

Just rip it off the wall and hide when the bullets start flying.

Ooooooor, start investing in mental health for all kids and especially troubled ones. When he was a student there, this guy was not allowed to carry a back pack on campus cause he was nuts. Maybe that's a good place to start.

[meritmat]

Originally Posted by missdpuck

You can thank Ference and especially Montador.

Strange story in a way.

RIP Monty.

Oh, lived in New Joisey till age 15.


Definitely possible that the shooter could’ve weaseled his way in through somebody.

It will be interesting to see what happens with the bomb squad at the Lantana trailer park!

Who knows, maybe he did have a helper
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hehe maybe but who in there right mind are going to let somebody into a school when there carrying an assault rife.

sad sad day

[wwkayaker]

A BIGGER gun would be a fitting American policy. How about making an effort to remove guns and easy access to guns?

The school where this shooting took place is a huge area with many buildings. How many armed guards and bigger guns are needed?

After Sandy Hook, the authorities were talking about putting AR-15s in school offices. That was a desperate response to a national problem. Schools have such dynamic environments that I don’t know how you completely control access to the building. Given the number of windows and doors (all required for fire safety) there are so many access points. If two kids were coordinating their efforts, it would be simple for one kid to go to class, ask to use the washroom at a specified time, and open a door for his buddy with the weapons. Unless fences are built around schools, similar to prisons, to ensure a single access point you will always have weaknesses.

Somebody asked earlier if teachers would avoid teaching in American schools due to safety concerns. I am a teacher and I wouldn’t teach in that environment even though the odds of it happening at my school would be slim. I was also a principal for years. The thought of having a gun in my office so that I could deal with intruders is just so foreign.

I can’t imagine what these teachers and students are experiencing. While I was a principal, I had 3 incidents where an individual walked by the school with a rifle (these were all on reserves). At the time, there were individuals with mental illness living beside the school. One of the events happened while the kids were outside on recess. Another event involved the police who failed to notify me that they were doing a drug bust at a trailer about 200 feet away. During one incident, a student noticed my concern and told me the guy walking by was her dad and he wouldn’t do anything—he was only the local drug dealer. All of these incidents were uneventful but it is a sickening feeling.

[wwkayaker]

Originally Posted by meritmat

yes sadly we never hear the near missed, they don't make a news(

Absolutely true. The three events I experienced didn’t make the news. One of the incidents certainly could have made the news given how badly the RCMP effed up.