Which Flames player has the biggest redemption story next year?

[Groot]

Originally Posted by Spurs

I don't think Hubredeau will ever come close to his 115 point season but I do expect he will be closer to the 70-80 point range and don't see anyone else having that high of an improvement.

I actually don't think we will see much difference from Mangiapane, Markstrom or Kadri next season. Last year I think they performed at the level I would expect from each of them.

Kylington a wild card because it would depend on what you consider a redemption arc. If he comes back and is an ok-ish player like he was before is that a redemption story because he didn't play at all? Technically it would be the biggest improvement going from nothing to meh but to me that doesn't really mean much.

I know being overtly negative is your schtick, but wow.

Huberdeau will never be the player he was for 4 seasons prior to joining the Flames? With a new coach/system?

Kadri and Markstrom both showed they have better play in them, Kadri to start last season, Markstrom down the stretch. But ya, let's assume we will only see the worst of their game going forward.

Mangiapane sure, he's probably a 45-50 point guy. Nothing wrong with that from a middle-6 player. He doesn't need a redemption arc.

"OK-ish" Kylington that was 56th in scoring by defenseman? That played hard defensive match-ups with Tanev and still managed a 55% Fenwick and Corsi rating? Ya, that's just meh, doesn't mean anything.

Just a terrible take when you combine it all together. Being pessimistic is fine, you just seem to love crapping all over anything Flames.

Markstrom with the biggest redemption arc as Wolf challenges him for the starting spot.

[bluejays]

Originally Posted by Groot

I know being overtly negative is your schtick, but wow.

Huberdeau will never be the player he was for 4 seasons prior to joining the Flames? With a new coach/system?

Kadri and Markstrom both showed they have better play in them, Kadri to start last season, Markstrom down the stretch. But ya, let's assume we will only see the worst of their game going forward.

Mangiapane sure, he's probably a 45-50 point guy. Nothing wrong with that from a middle-6 player. He doesn't need a redemption arc.

"OK-ish" Kylington that was 56th in scoring by defenseman? That played hard defensive match-ups with Tanev and still managed a 55% Fenwick and Corsi rating? Ya, that's just meh, doesn't mean anything.

Just a terrible take when you combine it all together. Being pessimistic is fine, you just seem to love crapping all over anything Flames.

Markstrom with the biggest redemption arc as Wolf challenges him for the starting spot.

I can’t defend on behalf of anyone but what I will say is there a huge reason to be pessimistic - aging individuals signed to long term deals, coming off a debilitating year largely attributed to a soul sucking coach. There are reasons to be optimistic for much the same reasons if your thought is this was completely a one off and they can mentally and physically get back to where they were a couple seasons ago. To me that’s asking for all the stars to align and I think that’s kinda hopeful thinking. I’m much more cautiously optimistic at seeing the young guys come in. I’m really hoping to see more speed, skill and quickness added. We should see some of that with a couple young guys brought in.

[Reggie Dunlop]

Kylington had a long road to regular NHL duty and was on the cusp of flourishing.

[Groot]

Originally Posted by bluejays

I can’t defend on behalf of anyone but what I will say is there a huge reason to be pessimistic - aging individuals signed to long term deals, coming off a debilitating year largely attributed to a soul sucking coach. There are reasons to be optimistic for much the same reasons if your thought is this was completely a one off and they can mentally and physically get back to where they were a couple seasons ago. To me that’s asking for all the stars to align and I think that’s kinda hopeful thinking. I’m much more cautiously optimistic at seeing the young guys come in. I’m really hoping to see more speed, skill and quickness added. We should see some of that with a couple young guys brought in.

I agree, there's reasons for both optimism and pessimism. I'm on record saying I prefer the optimistic side of things, it's a sport meant to entertain. I think a new coach/system will suit many players very well. But to take the negative view for every player/scenario is beyond being just pessimistic.

[1qqaaz]

I'm thinking either Huberdeau or Markstrom, just because I don't think they can do much worse than they did this past season. Well, Markstrom might, but not Huberdeau.

I agree with those who are saying Phillips or Kylington as well, if they count. Perhaps Ruzicka will become a full time NHLer with some stability in the lineup.

[FlamesAddiction]

How much of a point increase does Huberdeau need in order for it to be considered a successful redemption? Does he have to put up the points you would expect for a player making $10.5 million? I suspect he produces more next season, but for me, he needs at least 90 points to redeem himself. Anything less than a point per game at the very least doesn't do it for me.

[bluejays]

Originally Posted by Groot

I agree, there's reasons for both optimism and pessimism. I'm on record saying I prefer the optimistic side of things, it's a sport meant to entertain. I think a new coach/system will suit many players very well. But to take the negative view for every player/scenario is beyond being just pessimistic.

Again, can’t speak for anyone but I get the pessimism part. I think a lot of fans are just fed up with mediocrity that they’re fully willing to see a rebuild. Speaking for myself I think I seen enough last year with respect to the vets. Combined with this years better playoff teams, I just wanna see young guys run around and play hard skilled hockey. So while I don’t think a lot of guys will bounce back, the younger guys of a good fostering coach is brought in, should be fun to watch. Bad coaching can really mess things up in any walk of life, so there is an excuse there for the players. But where a bunch of them just physically gave up I think it’s hard to get back to where you were which is why I’m personally looking forward for some youth. They may not be elite but I’m sure they’ll show off a bit of their skill and that’s what I want to see.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Huberdeau is probably back in the 80-90 point range with a better powerplay and linemates that click.

Once people set realistic expectations for him and his contract maybe the bashing can stop. He's being paid for what he did in Florida just like the Blue Jackets are paying Johnny for what he did here.

Huberdeau has been the better and more consistent player. I think his game ages better because it's more high IQ and less about being quick and shifty which go with age.

[Spurs]

Originally Posted by Groot

I know being overtly negative is your schtick, but wow.

Huberdeau will never be the player he was for 4 seasons prior to joining the Flames? With a new coach/system?

Kadri and Markstrom both showed they have better play in them, Kadri to start last season, Markstrom down the stretch. But ya, let's assume we will only see the worst of their game going forward.

Mangiapane sure, he's probably a 45-50 point guy. Nothing wrong with that from a middle-6 player. He doesn't need a redemption arc.

"OK-ish" Kylington that was 56th in scoring by defenseman? That played hard defensive match-ups with Tanev and still managed a 55% Fenwick and Corsi rating? Ya, that's just meh, doesn't mean anything.

Just a terrible take when you combine it all together. Being pessimistic is fine, you just seem to love crapping all over anything Flames.

Markstrom with the biggest redemption arc as Wolf challenges him for the starting spot.

Overly negative? What has this team down in the past 10 years to be overly optimistic? I am making my points based on what the players have shown through out their careers, what our team has shown in recent years.

Hubredeau was not a 115 point player for 4 seasons before coming here. I said he would return back to the player he was outside of that season. I don't see a good fit with linemates here so I don't think he will reach the 90 point totals he put up in Florida.


Kadri last year was what he was his whole career outside of one season at Colorado. Not sure why expecting him to be at the level he was his whole season bar one is being negative about him?

Kylington ok-ish yes. He is a 4/5 defefenseman that can contribute offensively with major issues defensively. Not sure what is so negative about not rating him as a top pairing guy.

I agree with Mangiapane so what is the issue there? How am I overly negative for agreeing with your view?

[Hackey]

Huberdeau and Markstrom. Those 2 are the key to a strong year.

[Groot]

Originally Posted by Spurs

Overly negative? What has this team down in the past 10 years to be overly optimistic? I am making my points based on what the players have shown through out their careers, what our team has shown in recent years.

Hubredeau was not a 115 point player for 4 seasons before coming here. I said he would return back to the player he was outside of that season. I don't see a good fit with linemates here so I don't think he will reach the 90 point totals he put up in Florida.


Kadri last year was what he was his whole career outside of one season at Colorado. Not sure why expecting him to be at the level he was his whole season bar one is being negative about him?

Kylington ok-ish yes. He is a 4/5 defefenseman that can contribute offensively with major issues defensively. Not sure what is so negative about not rating him as a top pairing guy.

I agree with Mangiapane so what is the issue there? How am I overly negative for agreeing with your view?

What does the franchise performance have to do with assessing individual players on an annual basis?

Huberdeau was not a 70-80 point player the 4 seasons prior either. That's fine you don't think he'll ever perform like he did in Florida because he apparently doesn't have linemates of 40-point Sam Bennett quality on the Flames.

Kadri was the best player on the Flames for 3 months to start the year. You're pretending like he is incapable of playing like that when he literally has played for this team at a high-level, but sure he'll never be able to replicate that level of play again.

There are 64 top-pair defenseman in the league. Kylington was 56th in scoring. He was top 50 in advanced defnesive metrics (source - Moneypuck)). But facts don't matter, you say he's ok-ish and 4/5 defenseman so I guess let's ignore actual statistics.

OP claimed Mangiapane was due for redemption based on underperformance last year, you said he is what he is which I take to mean that he will continue to "underperform". I said he didn't underperform and doesn't need redemption. Big difference.

You failed to address Markstrom who played at a redeemed level to close out the season and why he'll never play at that level again.

And it's overly negative when you combine all the above to be the stance of a single poster, not a positive thought shared. Not thinking a single player that underperformed this year will see any improvement is overtly negative IMO.

[FlamesAddiction]

Only 3 of the 19 players to score 90 or more points this past season and 8 of the 31 players to score 80 or more were the same age or older than the age Huberdeau will be going into next season.

It's a young player's game and pretty uncommon for a player 30 or older to produce at a point per game level. Hopefully he bucks the trend of course, but I don't think it is a given that he ever gets back to that. 70-80 points would be a successful season, but whether or not that is redemption, I am not sure.

If I had to pick a player, I'll go with Mangiapane. His shooting percentage last season was less than half of what it was his two previous seasons. If he can get that back up to the mean, it should translate into more points. Given his age, I think a rebound is likely.

I'll also take Ruzicka. He was another one that I think Sutter mishandled and is probably going to want to prove a lot next season.

[dino7c]

The title of the thread is "who has the biggest redemption story next season?"

To come in here and say nobody...I mean why even bother

I would also check Spurs post history before taking him seriously

[Spurs]

Originally Posted by dino7c

The title of the thread is "who has the biggest redemption story next season?"

To come in here and say nobody...I mean why even bother

I would also check Spurs post history before taking him seriously

LOL it makes me laugh how people not being insane homers rattles you so much.

[Spurs]

Originally Posted by Groot

What does the franchise performance have to do with assessing individual players on an annual basis?

It has to do with your incorrect accusation that being overly negative is my thing.

Huberdeau was not a 70-80 point player the 4 seasons prior either. That's fine you don't think he'll ever perform like he did in Florida because he apparently doesn't have linemates of 40-point Sam Bennett quality on the Flames.

Never said he was that player, I gave reasons why he will not reach those points, and didn't say he would be far off, I don't think it is overly negative to say he will be an 80 point player.

Kadri was the best player on the Flames for 3 months to start the year. You're pretending like he is incapable of playing like that when he literally has played for this team at a high-level, but sure he'll never be able to replicate that level of play again.

Judging someone over a 3 month period when they are 33 seems crazy. He has shown what he is and is unlikely that at his age he is going to improve. I think he will be the player he has been over his career, again explain how that is overly negative.

There are 64 top-pair defenseman in the league. Kylington was 56th in scoring. He was top 50 in advanced defnesive metrics (source - Moneypuck)). But facts don't matter, you say he's ok-ish and 4/5 defenseman so I guess let's ignore actual statistics.

I don't put any value on advanced defensive metrics, if you do great, but I don't see it as being widespread gospel to ignore what we clearly see when watching the player. Facts do matter to me, advanced defensive metrics as facts LOL.

OP claimed Mangiapane was due for redemption based on underperformance last year, you said he is what he is which I take to mean that he will continue to "underperform". I said he didn't underperform and doesn't need redemption. Big difference.

He is an inconsistent player both in terms of in season and overall. That is what I think he is, I don't think last year was an under performance it was the 2nd best season of his career. Again i will repeat myself but are you honestly saying that me saying a guy will have a similar season to his 2nd best season of his career when he is 27 years old is overly negative?

You failed to address Markstrom who played at a redeemed level to close out the season and why he'll never play at that level again.

I didn't address Markstrom because I think that at his age and with history I do not expect him to be at a top starter level again. Maybe he is slightly better than last year but I don't see any reason to think he is bouncing back. I also feel like I am far from the only fan that feels this way so again is that overly negative.

And it's overly negative when you combine all the above to be the stance of a single poster, not a positive thought shared. Not thinking a single player that underperformed this year will see any improvement is overtly negative IMO.

Except that isn't true, I said Hubredeau would clearly improve and significantly. With Kylington I asked about what is considered redemption since he didn't play last season so not a negative or positive stance.

The reason you are painting it as overly negative is because of pre-conceived ideas you have about me making you look for negatives that aren't there.

[Paulie Walnuts]

I don't know but you have been crapping on everyone vets and prospects you just said Coronato isn't worth a 1st.

Why even cheer for the team if you hate everything about them.

You don't have to be a cheerleader for every player but you are over the top negative about every thing about the team.

[Spurs]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

I don't know but you have been crapping on everyone vets and prospects you just said Coronato isn't worth a 1st.

Why even cheer for the team if you hate everything about them.

You don't have to be a cheerleader for every player but you are over the top negative about every thing about the team.

I just said I think Hubredeau will increase his point total by 25, that is crapping in him?

The Coronato comment was about how teams value picks I said he has done nothing wrong. How is that crapping in him? It wasn’t about him but 1st rounds picks vs prospects value in the NHL.

People read way too much negativity into things that isn’t there.

Edit: Are people such fickle fans that any time things don’t go well they give up? I am a Flames fan through thick and thin not only when things are going well. Giving up because I don’t like the players or direction of the team seems to go against being a fan.

[Groot]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

I don't know but you have been crapping on everyone vets and prospects you just said Coronato isn't worth a 1st.

Why even cheer for the team if you hate everything about them.

You don't have to be a cheerleader for every player but you are over the top negative about every thing about the team.

This. After he tries arguing about not being overly negative by arguing every one of his negative takes with no actual argument or basis other than "I think"

[Spurs]

Originally Posted by Groot

This. After he tries arguing about not being overly negative by arguing every one of his negative takes with no actual argument or basis other than "I think"

Except they weren’t negative takes.

[Groot]

Originally Posted by Spurs

Except they weren’t negative takes.

Coming into a redemption thread to say "Nobody" because...
- lack of quality linemates for Huberdeau
- saying you can't judge a 33-year old off 3 months when you're doing exactly that yourself and ignoring the prior 3 months and whole prior season
- flat out ignoring Kylingtons offensive stats while saying defensive metrics don't matter either to "prove" that Kylington is in fact a 4/5 defender
- creating your own narrative that wasn't mentioned in the thread to dump on Mangiapane
- ignoring the final 2 months of last season where Markstrom played at a much higher level than the start, because obviously he can't play at that level even though he literally finished last season doing so....that all seems pretty negative to me, and others as well apparently. Then there's your entire posting history on this site, which others have also noticed about you in the *checks join date* 2 months since you joined. Everything screams overly negative.