Do you support leaving the CPP and creating a new Alberta Pension Plan?

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

I wasn’t old enough to know, but Trudeau Jr seems more unethical that’s for sure.

Or he's a lot worse at hiding it.

[Johnny Makarov]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Trudeau junior more formidable than Trudeau senior? That’s a new one.

2023.. who knew the majority of the snowflakes are on the right??!!.. lol

[Whynotnow]

Originally Posted by flamesfever

Thank you for your thoughts. I do believe that Alberta could go it alone with regard to having their own APP, providing certain safeguards and oversights were in place. However, I agree that it may come with increased risk.

I have long held the opinion that we should become more independent from Ottawa. I only wish we had someone like a Lougheed to lead the charge. It seems to me that Smith may be getting poor advise, e.g. her Tell the Feds campaign against Ottawa's Clean Energy Regulation, and her use of the Sovereignty Act.

Anyway, as I see it, the debate for an APP is only just beginning. I don't think there is any way Smith is going to be able to ram through an APP without getting a strong mandate by way of a referendum. And even if it ever happened, there would have to be very strong safeguards from government interference and an effective oversight.

Even if the whole APP thing died down, at least the exercise may make the rest of Canada realize how important Alberta is to the rest of the Country.

I posted about this when the idea first got floated that some people just sort of dismiss it from actually happening but say it’s great because it can be used to get attention and win in negotiations. First of all, the separatist/isolationist part of the party is completely thrilled to have your support under that false premise. They don’t care how you rationalize your support, but make no mistake these people are serious about this.

Second, even if that were a strategy it is a massive blunder. It will serve to distract from good governance in Alberta, as they focus on this. It will further divide the province. It will creat uncertainties for business, and as the UCP likes to remind about the royalty review, uncertainty is bad. It will either be ignored by the rest of Canada, or it will distract from other more important national issues that we should be solving while we talk about one of the things that is actually, finally pretty well managed.

There is no upside to focusing on this.

[#-3]

Originally Posted by flamesfever

Thank you for your thoughts. I do believe that Alberta could go it alone with regard to having their own APP, providing certain safeguards and oversights were in place. However, I agree that it may come with increased risk.

I have long held the opinion that we should become more independent from Ottawa. I only wish we had someone like a Lougheed to lead the charge. It seems to me that Smith may be getting poor advise, e.g. her Tell the Feds campaign against Ottawa's Clean Energy Regulation, and her use of the Sovereignty Act.

Anyway, as I see it, the debate for an APP is only just beginning. I don't think there is any way Smith is going to be able to ram through an APP without getting a strong mandate by way of a referendum. And even if it ever happened, there would have to be very strong safeguards from government interference and an effective oversight.

Even if the whole APP thing died down, at least the exercise may make the rest of Canada realize how important Alberta is to the rest of the Country.

These are two wild assumptions that people are hinging our pensions on, it's nuts.

There is no evidence that Smith will yield to public opinion, there is no evidence that like boiled frogs right wingers wont slowly adjust to the terrible ideas she presents, and there is certainly no evidence that the party explicitly views their mandate as tearing down government institutions will be able to implement strong safeguards on a government program.

We need to pull our heads out of the sand and make sure everyone knows this is not OK.

[flamesfever]

I agree, in a normal world, we should be able to sit down with our Federal Government officials and hammer out a deal that is good for Alberta and for Canada. However, when you deal with strongly idealistic environmentalists who would rather put you out of work than collaborate, and stubborn politicians from Quebec who only see things their way, I have my doubts Alberta will come out on top in any talks. Although one can only hope.

As far as the APP is concerned, I don't believe Alberta will get anywhere near the share of the CPP they are claiming. And I don't believe the Federal Government would or could allow the Government of Alberta to break away from the CPP without demonstrating that they have a strong mandate from the people by way of a referendum. Right now that looks very unlikely that could happen.

Besides. it may not be too long before a change in the Federal Government allows us all to calm down and get busy doing all the things we have planned.

[iggy_oi]

What’s getting you so riled up flamesfever and what exactly do you have planned?

[Wormius]

Is life in Quebec so wonderful that we want to emulate it?

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by flamesfever

I agree, in a normal world, we should be able to sit down with our Federal Government officials and hammer out a deal that is good for Alberta and for Canada. However, when you deal with strongly idealistic environmentalists who would rather put you out of work than collaborate, and stubborn politicians from Quebec who only see things their way, I have my doubts Alberta will come out on top in any talks. Although one can only hope.

As far as the APP is concerned, I don't believe Alberta will get anywhere near the share of the CPP they are claiming. And I don't believe the Federal Government would or could allow the Government of Alberta to break away from the CPP without demonstrating that they have a strong mandate from the people by way of a referendum. Right now that looks very unlikely that could happen.

Besides. it may not be too long before a change in the Federal Government allows us all to calm down and get busy doing all the things we have planned.

Like? What is planned by the UCP you want them to get busy on? I want them to do as little as possible, because everything the touch turns to feces.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Wormius

Is life in Quebec so wonderful that we want to emulate it?

We could have our own language!

To my knowledge they didnt do a lot with Esperanto so we could just appropriate that!

Then all Canadian packaging would have to be in English, French and Esperanto! Think of all the wonderful things we could accomplish!!

Or...we could abandon this dumbass idea and actually fix real problems.

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by flamesfever

I agree, in a normal world, we should be able to sit down with our Federal Government officials and hammer out a deal that is good for Alberta and for Canada. However, when you deal with strongly idealistic environmentalists who would rather put you out of work than collaborate, and stubborn politicians from Quebec who only see things their way, I have my doubts Alberta will come out on top in any talks. Although one can only hope.

As far as the APP is concerned, I don't believe Alberta will get anywhere near the share of the CPP they are claiming. And I don't believe the Federal Government would or could allow the Government of Alberta to break away from the CPP without demonstrating that they have a strong mandate from the people by way of a referendum. Right now that looks very unlikely that could happen.

Besides. it may not be too long before a change in the Federal Government allows us all to calm down and get busy doing all the things we have planned.

[stamps]

No

[Faust]

Debunking the Alberta Pension Plan:

https://thetyee.ca/Analysis/2023/10/...-Pension-Plan/

[Jacks]

First major polling on the subject is as expected.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calga...note-1.6989983

According to the first major poll conducted since Smith began her persuasion pitch to remove Alberta from CPP, the proposal remains about as widely opposed as it was before. Fifty-two per cent of Albertans think it's a bad or very bad idea, compared to 19 per cent who think it's a good or very good one, and 15 per cent who are in the middle, the Abacus Data survey shows.

When you take into account the left wing bias of this forum that sounds about the same as what people have said here.

Move on to something useful UCP.

[darockwilder]

Nope, just double the advertising budget.

[Whynotnow]

Originally Posted by darockwilder

Nope, just double the advertising budget.

That’s my anticipated outcome unfortunately. This would be the perfect time for the UCP to stand down on this. Smith could just say, we put it out there, we’ve heard back pretty resoundingly that there’s not enough support. Klein used to do this all the time, he’d float an idea, test the wind and drop it.

Doubt she’s smart enough to see the off ramp is here for her, she will just dig the hole deeper.

[Fuzz]

She's been pushing for this for 20 years, she isn't going to let something pesky like people disliking her ideas get in the way. Experts don't matter either. This is what Alberta elected, a ####ing moron with idiotic ideas that will never admit they are flawed.

[Whynotnow]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

She's been pushing for this for 20 years, she isn't going to let something pesky like people disliking her ideas get in the way. Experts don't matter either. This is what Alberta elected, a ####ing moron with idiotic ideas that will never admit they are flawed.

Well, if she hears from business leaders as well to cease and desist, she may back down. She won’t like it, and she won’t change her belief, but I don’t care how she gets there.

I’m 99 percent sure you are right though, she won’t back down sadly.

[photon]

Almost every podcast I listen to starts with an ad about either the alberta pension plan, or how rolling blackouts are bad therefore Trudeau is bad. Super annoying.

[edslunch]

Originally Posted by Whynotnow

Well, if she hears from business leaders as well to cease and desist, she may back down. She won’t like it, and she won’t change her belief, but I don’t care how she gets there.

I’m 99 percent sure you are right though, she won’t back down sadly.

From the same article:

Prime Minister Justin Trudeau can usually only count on polite applause when he's talking to an Alberta business crowd.

But when executives hosted him this week at an Ottawa reception, he found one line worked surprisingly well — praise for the national pension program that Premier Danielle Smith wishes to exit.