What if Sam Bennett has another good playoff performance?

[Jiri Hrdina]

Ryan will continue to have value in high leverage situations
Even if he’s playing on the fourth line, the value of having him when you are up by one in the third is why you keep him

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Ryan will continue to have value in high leverage situations
Even if he’s playing on the fourth line, the value of having him when you are up by one in the third is why you keep him

Yes, the coach has the task to roll out the best mix of four lines, plus special teams.

Derek Ryan is a fantastic all around player, a good Center to have in the bottom six and even could be top 6 if someone were to get hurt (knock on wood)

He is a player that can do a good job at almost anything you ask. Not all players can. (Remember when Buddy Robinson dumped the puck in for Gaudreau to retrieve?)

[keenan87]

Originally Posted by dammage79

1. Trust the GM who has now built a consistent playoff team? Knows what he is talking about as opposed to trusting the eye test of a consistently grumpy and condescending poster on the interwebs? Okie dokie!

2. Doesn't work, if I still have to get through Ricardo posts even when that one is on ignore, I can't imagine being able to not read your little rays of sunshine.

1. You do realize I was talking about not trusting what the GM says to the media?

2. Ahh that sucks, well I am sorry that the ignore function doesn't work as well as you want. However, it is the weekend, so lets go out and enjoy this weather! Cheers!

[Flamenspiel]

nm

[Beatle17]

Originally Posted by keenan87

So if he sucks again next year as center on the third line, you will agree that you were wrong right? Or will it just be another year for young Bennett to learn and grow.

So if he plays better you are going to admit you didn't know what you are talking about, or admit you totally ignored all scenario's discussed here because you want Bennett to fail? Works both ways.

[GioforPM]

Bennett couldn’t be both a centre like some here demanded and be given all star line mates like others demanded. Not with Backlund and Monahan on the team.

[keenan87]

Originally Posted by Beatle17

So if he plays better you are going to admit you didn't know what you are talking about, or admit you totally ignored all scenario's discussed here because you want Bennett to fail? Works both ways.

Of course. If Bennett ends up being a legitimate third line centre next year, I will admit that I was wrong. About 35 points (similar to Derek Ryan's production), limiting dumb penalties, and being physically engaged. His physicality should be noticed most games just like other physical players across the league.

If he doesn't, I hope this will be the last season when posters come out with excuses because the entire world is against poor Bennett.

If he isn't given a chance as the third line center next year.. well I guess the entire NHL's coaches have made a pact to ruin his career lol

[Flamenspiel]

I think Wards done a great job with Bennett and it’s about time someone applied science to his deployment. It’s also that the Flames had to grow a line around him as well, Lucic and Dube were not in Calgary last year.

A team with Derek Ryan on a third line is not going to win any playoff matchups in the bottom six. It’s also quite possible that Monahan or Backlund get injured in the playoffs so we now have some depth at centre.

Personally I don’t care about about the regular season, if Bennett is the difference between them making the playoffs or not then the Flames are not good enough to contend.

[Roof-Daddy]

If this is actually Sams coming out party finally, when you add Mangi and Dube to the mix who both look to be coming along nicely, boy is the expansion draft next year ever going to suck.

[timbit]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

If this is actually Sams coming out party finally, when you add Mangi and Dube to the mix who both look to be coming along nicely, boy is the expansion draft next year ever going to suck.

The amelioration of all three is far more rewarding and important than future expansion protection.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Plus the only way not to lose a good player is that your organization is so cruddy that you don’t have enough depth to have to expose one

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by timbit

The amelioration of all three is far more rewarding and important than future expansion protection.

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Plus the only way not to lose a good player is that your organization is so cruddy that you don’t have enough depth to have to expose one

I agree but it will still suck to lose any of them if they become legit top 6 forwards.

[Calgary4LIfe]

For me, I think Bennett just needs runway and consistency of opportunity.


Hartley did that for him. I thought Hartley was really good at developing young players (Baertschi aside, who just seemed unable to have much of a motor of any kind).



I was ok with Gulutzan taking Bennett off that 2nd line LW position alongside Backlund - that's a fantastic starting point for someone like Tkachuk to slide into and develop in the NHL, but he should have moved Bennett to the 3rd line centre and just kept him there. Win or lose, just give him that consistency.


Lindholm spoke about that early this season in that he doesn't care if he plays win or centre, but that if he moves to centre to just give him a long enough runway. I don't see Bennett any differently.


This is the first time that Bennett (hopefully) has a long runway at centre with consistent line mates that aren't terrible. No Brouwer or Neal that drag every line mate down in effectiveness. I hope that Ward keeps him at centre playing with Dube for the rest of this playoffs, and all of next season. See what happens. It may pay off huge for this club, and I would say that due to Bennett's playoff history, he probably has earned this type of opportunity. That's the type of investment that I want this team to make in Bennett - not all players are equal in development.



I don't know what next season will look like, but I remember reading a rumour on here from someone who knows someone in the Flames' org, and the rumour posted was signing Hall while retaining Gaudreau for next season. Now I don't know how you can possibly accomplish that without killing the defence, but having that kind of a lineup would be huge for the team, and I think Bennett could make it work.



Gaudreau - Monahan - Lindholm
Tkachuk - Backlund - Mangiapane
Hall - Bennett - Dube



The top line is the top line - we know what they can do already.
The second line will always be the match-up line - we know what they can do.
That third line though - that's a fast skating line that can be physical and and maybe becomes a really good scoring line too. I don't know, but I suddenly like the idea of Bennett centring a line like that.



This is kind of putting the cart in front of the horse so to speak right now, but my point is that Bennett SHOULD be getting a long look at being a centre on this team with decent line mates and seeing if that helps his career and stats take-off or not. I think he is reliable enough defensively to allow for this at any rate. His underlying stats show that he is a better player than what he is, so why not?

[Kidder]

Don’t forget Bennett has been arguably our best forward the last two trips to the playoffs.

A guy who underperforms during the season (keeping his contract low) but elevates come the postseason?

I’m keeping that guy on my roster. Even if he has to spend some regular season games in the press box.

I posted this in the Bennett thread back in December when people were calling him out and crowing that the Flames should move him.

I’ve been nodding my head knowingly these qualifiers while shaking my head at some of the takes in this thread.

What we’re currently watching IS Sam Bennett. He hasn’t just suddenly figured it out. He’s not finally playing in the right position, or with the right guys, or finally seizing his opportunity.

He is a player who underperforms in the season and then overperforms in the playoffs, and it is glorious to watch this time of year. His borderline aggressive play which is punished by refs and coaches in regular season play translates into our secret weapon when the refs pull back and Bennett is allowed to run free.

He will continue to play strong for us these playoffs. And he will return to his regular season form whenever the 2021 season kicks off. And people will stomp their feet and demand we cut ties because of their unrealistic expectations and his meagre salary, which he vastly outperforms when the games really matter.

Expect it. Embrace it. Enjoy it.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Kidder

I posted this in the Bennett thread back in December when people were calling him out and crowing that the Flames should move him.

I’ve been nodding my head knowingly these qualifiers while shaking my head at some of the takes in this thread.

What we’re currently watching IS Sam Bennett. He hasn’t just suddenly figured it out. He’s not finally playing in the right position, or with the right guys, or finally seizing his opportunity.

He is a player who underperforms in the season and then overperforms in the playoffs, and it is glorious to watch this time of year. His borderline aggressive play which is punished by refs and coaches in regular season play translates into our secret weapon when the refs pull back and Bennett is allowed to run free.

He will continue to play strong for us these playoffs. And he will return to his regular season form whenever the 2021 season kicks off. And people will stomp their feet and demand we cut ties because of their unrealistic expectations and his meagre salary, which he vastly outperforms when the games really matter.

Expect it. Embrace it. Enjoy it.

Yeah.....no.

[activeStick]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

Expose Backlund??? I think that’s just madness. He was the best center in this series IMO.



I think since the Flames got away with just giving up a UFA Derek Engelland last time around, I wouldn’t be surprised if Treliving swung a deal with Seattle to protect a few guys.

Yeah, exposing Backlund, one of the few forwards who plays a complete 200 foot game is just a bit bizarre.

[Enoch Root]

Career PPG in the playoffs for the Flames top forwards:

Monahan:.... 0.792 (PP1)
Gaudreau:... 0.625 (PP1)
Lucic:......... 0.591 (PP2) (excluding his time in Boston)
Bennett:...... 0.583 (no PP time)
Lindholm:.... 0.555 (PP1)
Mangiapane: 0.555 (PP2)
Dube:......... 0.500 (only 4 games)
Backlund:.... 0.458 (PP2)
Tkachuk:..... 0.458 (PP1)
Ryan:.......... 0.222 (no PP time)

Playoff Bennett is a top 6 forward, even though he doesn't get top 6 line-mates, and he gets no PP time. He should be on PP2.

$2.55M for that kind of production is a bargain. Who cares what he does in the regular season?

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Career PPG in the playoffs for the Flames top forwards:

Monahan:.... 0.792 (PP1)
Gaudreau:... 0.625 (PP1)
Lucic:......... 0.591 (PP2) (excluding his time in Boston)
Bennett:...... 0.583 (no PP time)
Lindholm:.... 0.555 (PP1)
Mangiapane: 0.555 (PP2)
Dube:......... 0.500 (only 4 games)
Backlund:.... 0.458 (PP2)
Tkachuk:..... 0.458 (PP1)
Ryan:.......... 0.222 (no PP time)

Playoff Bennett is a top 6 forward, even though he doesn't get top 6 line-mates, and he gets no PP time. He should be on PP2.

$2.55M for that kind of production is a bargain. Who cares what he does in the regular season?

You sound like an Oilers fan...."BUT POINTS"

As for the bolded...

Everyone should and particularly management.

This season was the greatest example of why. This club was far from guaranteed to even make the post season. They were battling for their playoff lives with 12 games left.

One of the reasons for that was lack of secondary scoring as well as poor team defense. Bennett was a factor (with others) in both those categories.

Guys get paid because of what they do in the regular season because if they dont produce there, there are no playoffs to play their best. That is really quite simple.

He has been, for several years now, awful to mediocre as a regular season performer. 2.5M is NOT a bargain for that type of player. That is replacement level stuff sans the physicality but also adding in the stupid penalty factor.

IF he produces even 15-25 during the season and is even average defensively then yes 2.5-3M a year is palatable. He isnt that though. Or at least hasnt been.

[ComixZone]

Transplant, you’re the one mocking “BUT POINTS” and then go on to slam Bennett for not producing points when his underlying numbers are strong. The underlying numbers, if you discredit “POINTS” show Bennett as a decent bottom six player and a solid case could be made that better linemates would help convert on some of the scoring chances Bennett helps produce (...and we’re seeing exactly that so far in these playoffs).

Smart management would look at the fact that Benny, Dube, Lucic and Ryan are decent, if not good bottom 6 pieces. Then look at the bad pieces. Jankowski cratered his line all season, and if we had better depth or the coach was willing to make some changes, he would have been on waivers, on the wing, or scratched. We have 4 pieces in the bottom six, and Rieder is a solid PK’er so he has value to us on the 4th line with Ryan. Cut bait with Jankowski and find a solid 4th line player for league minimum.

Lucic - Bennett - Dube
Rieder - Ryan - ?

That simple reconfiguration is significantly better than what the Flames rolled with during the regular season.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

Transplant, you’re the one mocking “BUT POINTS” and then go on to slam Bennett for not producing points when his underlying numbers are strong showing he isn’t one of the players dragging down bottom 6 production. The underlying numbers, if you discredit “POINTS” show Bennett as a decent bottom six player.

Smart management would look at the fact that Benny, Dube, Lucic and Ryan are decent, if not good bottom 6 pieces. Then look at the bad pieces. Jankowski cratered his line all season, and if we had better depth or the coach willing to make some changes, he would have been on waivers, on the wing, or scratched. We have 4 pieces in the bottom six, and Rieder is a solid PK’er so he has value to us on the 4th line with Ryan. Cut bait with Jankowski and find a solid 4th line player for league minimum.

Lucic - Bennett - Dube
Rieder - Ryan - ?

That simple reconfiguration is significantly better than what the Flames rolled with during the regular season.

Again....players get paid for regular season production. Whether that be offensive or defensive.

Underlying whatever blah blah means little.

Im asking...what is fair compensation for a guy that hasnt averaged 30 points a season in 6 seasons, has a history of poor defensive play and dumb penalties at really poor times, does not contribute to special teams and plays 12-13 minutes a bight... but also adds an element of physicality which is much needed and an apparent ability to produce IF/WHEN the club makes the playoffs.

Where is the balance?

Its a simple question really.

Im of the opinion that 2.5 for that is far too much and explained why...above. Maybe I am wrong.

That's all.

And I will add that I also believe that Dube will be much much more than a decent bottom 6 player....very soon.