I was thinking kind of the opposite, that the moment where she cracks the rock takes place well into the training and is a breakthrough by Rey.
I also have a feeling that the this isn't going to go how you think, and its just a my theory is that something happens where Kylo does something particularly bad and Rey decides to abandon her training and go after him, ala Empire Strikes back, but this time unlike where Luke escapes Vader, Rey doesn't escape Kylo and gets taken before Snoke ala Return of the Jedi where she is tempted by the Dark Side and Snoke who also feels her immense power.
The really wacky theory that I've been reading is that we get a double turn, Kylo is trying to save Rey from Temptation in that scene in the trailer, and Rey rebuffs him and we get a Kylo to the good side, Rey to the bad side, and Skywalker as the big bad wanting to wipe out the Jedi, and Snoke gets thrown into a reactor way early
Spoiler!
I am wondering myself if Luke is initially talking about Kylo or not when he is talking about not being scared of the raw strength he witnessed before.
If judging just from Force Awakens, I can't imagine it would be Kylo.
I am wondering myself if Luke is initially talking about Kylo or not when he is talking about not being scared of the raw strength he witnessed before.
If judging just from Force Awakens, I can't imagine it would be Kylo.
Spoiler!
Maybe Luke is talking about himself. He did say in ESB, "I'm not afraid". He didn't realize his powers back then but in retrospect he does and he sees that in Rey and it scares him... but that doesn't make sense. I'm stupid.
Ok I think people have had a chance to watch by now and we're on a new page so I'm not using spoiler tags anymore. People who aren't watching the trailer shouldn't be in a discussion thread.
I thought it was interesting that each voiceover would end and then cut to the other person.
Snoke narrates (with images of Kylo) then it cuts to Rey, Luke narrates (with images of Rey) then it cuts to Kylo.
I think we're definitely going to see a real focus on the duality of Rey and Kylo. The heroes and villains won't be as clear as we've seen in previous good/evil movies. I think they'll both flirt with changing sides and there'll be a lot of comparison between their paths and how close each one is to crossing over to the other side.
Last edited by Cecil Terwilliger; 10-10-2017 at 12:14 PM.
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The really wacky theory that I've been reading is that we get a double turn, Kylo is trying to save Rey from Temptation in that scene in the trailer, and Rey rebuffs him and we get a Kylo to the good side, Rey to the bad side, and Skywalker as the big bad wanting to wipe out the Jedi, and Snoke gets thrown into a reactor way early
Hmmm...
Spoiler!
Double turn....Last hope becomes the villian....Vinny Mac is Snoke confirmed.
In all seriousness though there are signs with Rey - Anger, Fear, Hate etc. all aspects that lead to the dark side. The only reason I think it wouldn't happen though is that I doubt they ruin the merchandising / Genre cross over power house that is Rey. She is bringing in a whole new group of viewers to Star Wars and the whole "Forces of Destiny" campaign aimed at girls
Last edited by SuperMatt18; 10-10-2017 at 12:51 PM.
In all seriousness though there are signs with Rey - Anger, Fear, Hate etc. all aspects that lead to the dark side. The only reason I think it wouldn't happen though is that I doubt they ruin the merchandising / Genre cross over power house that is Rey. She is bringing in a whole new group of viewers to Star Wars and the whole "Forces of Destiny" campaign aimed at girls
The franchise needs a main stream badass woman. Leia did not truly fit that, yes she was snarky and had sass but she was in need of rescue more than not. So I hope your right.
In all seriousness though there are signs with Rey - Anger, Fear, Hate etc. all aspects that lead to the dark side. The only reason I think it wouldn't happen though is that I doubt they ruin the merchandising / Genre cross over power house that is Rey. She is bringing in a whole new group of viewers to Star Wars and the whole "Forces of Destiny" campaign aimed at girls
Spoiler!
Fear is on the path to the dark side and Luke said he was afraid of the raw power he witnessed... subtle hint, swerve, or mere coincidence and I'm looking too much for something?
In all seriousness though there are signs with Rey - Anger, Fear, Hate etc. all aspects that lead to the dark side. The only reason I think it wouldn't happen though is that I doubt they ruin the merchandising / Genre cross over power house that is Rey. She is bringing in a whole new group of viewers to Star Wars and the whole "Forces of Destiny" campaign aimed at girls
Spoiler!
What weighs heavily for me for that whole theory, was when Rey was fighting Kylo and she suddenly took over she was attacking, she was angry and it made her powerful and gave her focus. In the novel she contemplated going over and slaughtering Kylo after she'd won.
There are lots of theories out there right now
That's she's Palpatine reborn
She's Anakin reborn
She's a Celestial representing a fusion of the Brother and the Sister and the whole balance of the force resides within her.
She's what Kylo now aspires to be.
What if we end up with a Master Apprentice Relationship between Kylo the Master and Rey the Apprentice and Snoke is just a lamb for the slaughter and this comes down to a battle between Luke and a new Sith master and apprentice in Rey and Kylo.
I know its not likely but its fun to think about.
However I am convinced that Luke is going to die either near the end of this movie or the start of the next movie.
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When he stated that he'd seen a great force power once before, I assumed that he was talking about Darth Vader, and that Rey has powers on that level.
I guess Kylo Renn might make more sense. I never really took Kylo as all that powerful, as he didn't really display all that much power in the Force Awakens. Kylo did have the ability to take down Luke and his Jedi Trainees though..
Could be pretty cool if they manage to pull of a Kylo/Ren swap. Kylo becomes good after being filled with remorse after killing his mother. Rey seeks revenge for injustices done to her as a child.
When he stated that he'd seen a great force power once before, I assumed that he was talking about Darth Vader, and that Rey has powers on that level.
I guess Kylo Renn might make more sense. I never really took Kylo as all that powerful, as he didn't really display all that much power in the Force Awakens. Kylo did have the ability to take down Luke and his Jedi Trainees though..
Could be pretty cool if they manage to pull of a Kylo/Ren swap. Kylo becomes good after being filled with remorse after killing his mother. Rey seeks revenge for injustices done to her as a child.
Luke's been exposed to very few force users and all have been amazingly powerful.
Yoda - Though he was old he was still powerful, but the Yoda that Luke encountered probably wasn't as powerful as the Yoda in the prequels
Vader - As Anakin Skywalker he was the most powerful force user of his time, the chosen one, if he hadn't been damaged by Obi-Wan he might have very quickly moved on Palpatine and killed him. But as Vader while still powerful he was an echo of what he used to be.
Ben Kenobi - Again powerful however he was not in the same league as Vader, Yoda or my final guest. He beat Anakin because Anakin was still conflicted and not yet fully Darth Vader.
Palpatine - He was described as a black hole in the force in the novel Revenge of the Sith, Dooku described him as an event horizon or pure darkness. He was the embodiment of the dark side, and it could be argued that while Anakin was the chosen one who would bring balance to the force, Palpatine was the Avatar who would plunge it into darkness.
Luke himself was supposedly pretty powerful and it could be argued that he was the unique force user who could embody the dark and light side of the force, there's also the argument that the prophesy of the chosen one referred to Luke. He never received proper training so we don't know how powerful he could really become. But in the end it wasn't his abilities with the force that made him powerful because I would argue that Palpatine would have wiped the floor with him, but his compassion and determination.
But if Luke and Snoke were talking about great power, I would argue that the Great power is at the level of a Yoda or Palpatine who were virtually mirrors of each other.
I think Kylo is probably pretty powerful as well, but again I go back to the Snoke is a bit of a con as he wasn't very well trained, and while he desperately wants to be like his grandfather, he's got too much of his mother in him.
In Star Wars Lore they talk about the great sacrifices that the Sith make to open themselves to the Dark Side
In legends EU, Palpatine murdered his family.
Vader murdered Jedi and killed his wife
Count Dooku betrayed the Jedi and probably murdered Sifo-Dyas
Kylo certainly sacrificed his father, but it dosen't look like its firmly put him on the path of the Dark Side.
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Luke's been exposed to very few force users and all have been amazingly powerful.
Yoda - Though he was old he was still powerful, but the Yoda that Luke encountered probably wasn't as powerful as the Yoda in the prequels
Vader - As Anakin Skywalker he was the most powerful force user of his time, the chosen one, if he hadn't been damaged by Obi-Wan he might have very quickly moved on Palpatine and killed him. But as Vader while still powerful he was an echo of what he used to be.
Ben Kenobi - Again powerful however he was not in the same league as Vader, Yoda or my final guest. He beat Anakin because Anakin was still conflicted and not yet fully Darth Vader.
Palpatine - He was described as a black hole in the force in the novel Revenge of the Sith, Dooku described him as an event horizon or pure darkness. He was the embodiment of the dark side, and it could be argued that while Anakin was the chosen one who would bring balance to the force, Palpatine was the Avatar who would plunge it into darkness.
Luke himself was supposedly pretty powerful and it could be argued that he was the unique force user who could embody the dark and light side of the force, there's also the argument that the prophesy of the chosen one referred to Luke. He never received proper training so we don't know how powerful he could really become. But in the end it wasn't his abilities with the force that made him powerful because I would argue that Palpatine would have wiped the floor with him, but his compassion and determination.
But if Luke and Snoke were talking about great power, I would argue that the Great power is at the level of a Yoda or Palpatine who were virtually mirrors of each other.
I think Kylo is probably pretty powerful as well, but again I go back to the Snoke is a bit of a con as he wasn't very well trained, and while he desperately wants to be like his grandfather, he's got too much of his mother in him.
In Star Wars Lore they talk about the great sacrifices that the Sith make to open themselves to the Dark Side
In legends EU, Palpatine murdered his family.
Vader murdered Jedi and killed his wife
Count Dooku betrayed the Jedi and probably murdered Sifo-Dyas
Kylo certainly sacrificed his father, but it dosen't look like its firmly put him on the path of the Dark Side.
I was always under the impression that Vader was supposed to have power that was considerably greater than all the existing Jedis/Sith. Hence why he was such a powerful weapon against he Jedi.
What held him back was the fact that he was psychologically controlled by Palpatine, and bound by his own negative emotions. His power levels were still high.
I'd agree that Luke has had exposure to relatively few force users. Which is why for him to be blown away by power, it'd have to be on Vader's level.
Could be pretty cool if they manage to pull of a Kylo/Ren swap. Kylo becomes good after being filled with remorse after killing his mother. Rey seeks revenge for injustices done to her as a child.
I think there is a 0% chance Disney turns a princess into a tyrant. Whether it would be a good story or not, politics and marketing still dictate some of the story.
She may have some intense struggles, but she will be a good guy throughout.
jmo
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I was always under the impression that Vader was supposed to have power that was considerably greater than all the existing Jedis/Sith. Hence why he was such a powerful weapon against he Jedi.
What held him back was the fact that he was psychologically controlled by Palpatine, and bound by his own negative emotions. His power levels were still high.
I'd agree that Luke has had exposure to relatively few force users. Which is why for him to be blown away by power, it'd have to be on Vader's level.
The Vader power thing is a source of constant debate among nerds
Anakin Skywalker was peerless in his power, even ignoring the whole stupid Midiclorians thing that was designed frankly to quantify how powerful someone is.
Among the powers that he had he also had prophesy which was a major part of his downfall.]
In the Revenge of the Sith book after his transformation he was described as a artist who had lost his ability to be a great artist, the power was there but beyond his reach. In the book dark lord which was sadly made legends, but was the best Vader book out there, he talked about his ability to peer through the force at future events as being burned out, his ability to do things like force jumps and the such severely hampered.
The things that made Palpatine happy were really three fold.
That Vader killed his wife, he just at that point realized that Palpatine was the only one who would ever accept him for the monster that he had become, a traitor, a murderer a man who killed the thing most dear to him. For their relationship based around eventual betrayal, Palpatine was the closest thing to a friend and a mentor that Anakan/Vader had
That Vader had been brutally injured and needed the suit to live. In Dark Lord they had a great conversation where Palpatine basically asked Vader why he wouldn't betray him and Palpatine made sure that Vader knew that he was completely vulnerable in that walking iron lung and . . . .
That Palpatine had lied so effectively that Vader believed that Palpatine was his path to greater knowledge and power.
If Anakin hadn't been injured, I doubt that Palpatine would have lived long and as powerful as Palpatine was, Anakin was probably more purely powerful though he certainly didn't have Palpatine's other gifts.
But Palpatine knew that Vader was psychologically and physically damaged to the point that while he was still powerful and frightening to nornal people, he was nothing more then a slave to Palpatine, which was ironic because Palpatines seduction of Vader was based around enough power to be free of constraints.
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I feel the big challenge here is to write a plot twist in which was as stunning to the viewer to find out Vader was Luke's father. Also, later learning Leia was his sister. How do you top that?
Snoke - "Luke never told you what happened to your family"
Rey - "He told me en . . . . wait he hasn't told me anything"
Snoke - "Well that ruins the dramatic pause dosen't it. Rey I . . . . know absolutely nothing about your family, they're completely un-related to what's happening here."
Rey - "That's impossible"
Snoke - "Search your feelings you know it to be true, for all we know they were a couple of janitors sweeping up at the Jedi School for gifted students"
Rey - " . . . . "
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I feel the big challenge here is to write a plot twist in which was as stunning to the viewer to find out Vader was Luke's father. Also, later learning Leia was his sister. How do you top that?
I think it would be a mistake to think they have to top it. A twist doesn't have to be huge, just unexpected. A twist where a relatively minor character turncoats either way to cause a dramatic shift in power is just as, if not better, than massive major character twists.
Snoke - "Luke never told you what happened to your family"
Rey - "He told me en . . . . wait he hasn't told me anything"
Snoke - "Well that ruins the dramatic pause dosen't it. Rey I . . . . know absolutely nothing about your family, they're completely un-related to what's happening here."
Rey - "That's impossible"
Snoke - "Search your feelings you know it to be true, for all we know they were a couple of janitors sweeping up at the Jedi School for gifted students"
Rey - " . . . . "
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I think it would be a mistake to think they have to top it. A twist doesn't have to be huge, just unexpected. A twist where a relatively minor character turncoats either way to cause a dramatic shift in power is just as, if not better, than massive major character twists.
I know there has to be a twist, but why can't the twist be that there's no twist.
That Rey is just an anomaly, she's not related to anyone at all. She had a normal mother and father and she was born with extraordinary force power. I mean there have probably been millions of Jedi in the history of the GFFA and they're not related, and since the Jedi for the most part are like Monks its not like they breed. But Jedi prospects keep showing up.
Maybe if there was a twist and Rey goes to the darkside its because of circumstance. Luke took her away from her parents and then her parents were killed by Snoke in the some raid or another. That would make me want vengeance.
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I know there has to be a twist, but why can't the twist be that there's no twist.
That Rey is just an anomaly, she's not related to anyone at all. She had a normal mother and father and she was born with extraordinary force power. I mean there have probably been millions of Jedi in the history of the GFFA and they're not related, and since the Jedi for the most part are like Monks its not like they breed. But Jedi prospects keep showing up.
Maybe if there was a twist and Rey goes to the darkside its because of circumstance. Luke took her away from her parents and then her parents were killed by Snoke in the some raid or another. That would make me want vengeance.
It might be that for every natural "dark" side birth, there is a "light" birth somewhere in the galaxy to keep balance. Having Jedi's procreate creates an unnatural imbalance. Maybe Rey is just the balance to Leia and Hans kid.
