Hanifin vs Hamilton

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

Lindholm at under 5M long-term is great.

If he continues to play like this and improve its downright ridiculous!

[Tron_fdc]

I don't mind admitting when I'm wrong. I hated the deal when it happened (I was and am a big Hamilton fan) and my first reaction was disbelief and hate.

Someone obviously saw something in Lindholm and man oh man is it ever paying off in this environment. Guy has been unreal.

Hanifin, while not being the offensive stud I was hoping, is still super young and on this team has all the time in the world to develop. Guy can work on his defensive game while not being relied on to score goals, and I think that's essential for his overall development. Offense will come eventually.....hopefully while/after we win a cup and Gio retires.

Pretty happy with the results so far. Treliving really knocked it out of the park. I was wrong. It happens from time to time

[Flash Walken]

Teams with bad forwards need their d to score.

Teams with good forwards need their d to defend.

[getoverit]

I think both teams got what they wanted.
echo much of what has been said. I surely don't miss any of Hamiltons dumb penalities..........give Hanifin some time to grow. luv the chemistry we got going here and the youth

[Freddy]

Originally Posted by TheMagicMan

Being a devils advocate...if Hanafin has so much upside, as reflected with so many positive comments via this thread.. ..then why did Hurricanes give him up?

Over dinner last fall with a Hurricanes player I inquired about Hanafin and his comment was that Hanafin’s game is hinged on his confidence, he’s dynamic when feeling good but has been inconsistent over his career.

I imagine Hanafin, like Ferland, wasn’t a player the GM wanted to trade, but had to include quality to get quality in order for the 4 (5) player swap to work for both sides.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

One factor is that the owner was rumored to want to make a big splash
And the reality is that Dougie is an attractive commodity. He's got a unique set of attributes that teams want.
And so far - the trade has worked for both clubs.

Plus he seemed to be challenging the whole RFA system as a whole. He pushed a hard line against Hanifin and Lindholm.

He'll love the UFA market with Ferland next summer!

[Huntingwhale]

Looking at their stats, Hamilton appeared to take about triple (!) the amount of minor penalties that Hanifin took over the past couple seasons. And it's not like Hamilton was getting fighting majors to pad those stats. It was almost always stupid stick infractions and lazy holding penalties at the worst times in the game. The Flames PK was nothing to brag about either so those penalties hurt the team plenty.

Nice to see a Dman still be able to play physical yet disciplined at the same time.

[Split98]

Originally Posted by cannon7

If I were to guess, one of the reasons Bouwmesster's appeal dropped so much was that much of the offensive production he had in Florida effectively disappeared in Calgary. But he also went from pretty cushy minutes in Florida to being the eventual de facto #1 in Calgary. Hanifin will hopefully benefit from not having to be "the guy" on the blueline any time soon.

I completely forgot that Bouwmeester was supposed to be an offensive weapon

[Geeoff]

So, far I think Lindholm is the best player in the trade, which I was not expecting.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Geeoff

So, far I think Lindholm is the best player in the trade, which I was not expecting.

As far as toolboxes go, I think he has the biggest one - he's easily the most versatile. Multi-position, offensive minded, defensively sound, faceoffs, PP, PK capable, good wheels, doesn't mind physical play.

Hanifin is similar but I suppose to a lesser degree on offence - though I think he's got skill there too and it just hasn't bubbled to the surface under Peters' system.

The others have one or two things they are very good at - Hamilton's wrister, Ferland's shot and forecheck.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by SeanCharles

The one thing that stands out to me is I've noticed Hanifin has been getting the 2nd most icetime after Gio on the team.

I know it's early but in the past generally Hamilton was usually behind both Gio and Brodie in icetime.

I know special teams factors into these things but what it tells me is that Hanifin is trusted in all situations to point where he may be en route to becoming the 2nd most used dman on a consistent basis. Hamilton never seemed good enough in all areas to be able to do the same.

Hanifin is 21, younger than Andersson.. He's a beauty!

It's exciting to realize we may have 3 of our future top 4 dmen already on the team as 21 year olds or younger.

Exactly.

One of the biggest things that people that disliked the trade from a Calgary standpoint pointed out was that Hanifin was hugely sheltered in Carolina, and we have yet to see how he would handle a bigger responsibility load.

So far his defensive zone starts and ice time per game certainly show a guy that is no longer being sheltered.

His CF% isn't great, but then he's only played half a game with his designed defense partner and has been working with a rookie and a third pair veteran ever since.

[Boreal]

Listening to Craig Button's perspective on Hamilton gives me even more confidence in this trade.

He gushes over him and stated at the time of the trade that Hanafin doesn't have Dougie's offensive upside.

Hamilton is great at getting shots through and was capable of threading the needle on outlet passes, with other blatant misgivings we've gone over.

I do like Craig and I think he has intriguing analysis, but sometimes he's completely out to lunch and lets his opinion create an echo chamber of incorrect analysis that is STARK.

Kind of like when he traded a future Conn Symthe Trophy winner for a 2nd round pick and bought out a future Hall of Famer and Art Ross Trophy winner in his kick off as Flames GM.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by nobles_point

Listening to Craig Button's perspective on Hamilton gives me even more confidence in this trade.

He gushes over him and stated at the time of the trade that Hanafin doesn't have Dougie's offensive upside.

Hamilton is great at getting shots through and was capable of threading the needle on outlet passes, with other blatant misgivings we've gone over.

I do like Craig and I think he has intriguing analysis, but sometimes he's completely out to lunch and lets his opinion create an echo chamber of incorrect analysis that is STARK.

Kind of like when he traded a future Conn Symthe Trophy winner for a 2nd round pick and bought out a future Hall of Famer and Art Ross Trophy winner in his kick off as Flames GM.

Is St Louis not both of these players?

Edit: Giguere and St Louis. Plus Marc Savard.

That's Chiadenfreude territory.

[Bingo]

To me it's down to equations again.

Treliving wanted to get better up front without destroying his blueline to do it. The risk on the blueline with the move he made always came down to this;

Hamilton - Brodie < Hanifin - Brodie

If the drop off from Hamilton to Brodie was less than the improvement of Hanifin to Brodie they effectively don't hurt their blueline while getting to add a new core piece to their forward group in Lindholm.

The odd thing about this equation was Brodie's appearance in both, and therefore Brodie's ability to rebound closer to Hamilton than anyone would expect from his previous two years by changing sides and playing with Giordano.

6 games is nothing but the drop off from Hamilton hasn't been that great, and the Hanifin bump over 2016-2018 Brodie has been significant.

Oh and that Lindholm guy seems to be working out too.

[killer_carlson]

I will also find it interesting to look at the long term stats for the Flames young guys during the GG era.

Ten years from now it will be interesting to see if GG's academic approach stunted their progress or suited it.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Bingo

To me it's down to equations again.

Treliving wanted to get better up front without destroying his blueline to do it. The risk on the blueline with the move he made always came down to this;

Hamilton - Brodie < Hanifin - Brodie

If the drop off from Hamilton to Brodie was less than the improvement of Hanifin to Brodie they effectively don't hurt their blueline while getting to add a new core piece to their forward group in Lindholm.

The odd thing about this equation was Brodie's appearance in both, and therefore Brodie's ability to rebound closer to Hamilton than anyone would expect from his previous two years by changing sides and playing with Giordano.

6 games is nothing but the drop off from Hamilton hasn't been that great, and the Hanifin bump over 2016-2018 Brodie has been significant.

Oh and that Lindholm guy seems to be working out too.

Certainly agree with the bolded, but there was an element to wanting to move on from Hamilton too.

Does Ferland and Fox get you Lindholm? I suppose not but you could shop those two around the league and find yourself a good forward.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Certainly agree with the bolded, but there was an element to wanting to move on from Hamilton too.

Does Ferland and Fox get you Lindholm? I suppose not but you could shop those two around the league and find yourself a good forward.

The flames needed more than a good forward though, their laundry list of qualities they needed was long.

Needed a guy capable of taking draws. Needed a guy that could play up or down in the lineup. Needed a guy with size. Needed a guy with speed. Needed a guy with some jam. Needed a guy who was self-motivated to play defense. Needed that guy to be under a reasonable contract because they needed a few guys and one guy at 6 or 7 million wasn't going to cut it.

That, to me, is the real home run of the trade. Lindholm is everything the team needed in a player but came at a cap hit that allowed them to also add Neal via free agency.

It's the echo effect of depth, reverberating through the lineup. The Flames are better than last year if they just add Lindholm, but they aren't leaps and bounds better. The flames are better if they add statsny or o'reilly, but again, they aren't leaps and bounds better. What makes them so much better this year is having Lindholm, Neal, Czarnik AND Ryan. All 4 players have goals this year for the flames through just 6 games.

Just a crazy good trade in my mind.

[theslymonkey]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

What makes them so much better this year is having Lindholm, Neal, Czarnik AND Ryan. All 4 players have goals this year for the flames through just 6 games.

This....

That's a solid upgrade to the right side and an outstanding 4C compared to Stajan. But the importance of them all scoring is what sets it apart.

[GreenLantern2814]

Hamilton is outscoring Hanifin by a whopping 2 points despite 32 more shots on goal (122 shot attempts total) and starting 60% of his shifts in the Ozone.

Both players continue to be right in the 20 minutes/night range. Hanifin starts 55.5% of his shifts in the defensive zone.

19 blocks 19 hits for Hanifin vs 14/21 for Dougie.

I continue to be amazed that this trade is essentially a wash production wise, with Calgary getting the player that's three years younger and under contract for six years instead of two.

It's still early. I like Hanifin.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

Hamilton is outscoring Hanifin by a whopping 2 points despite 32 more shots on goal (122 shot attempts total) and starting 60% of his shifts in the Ozone.

Both players continue to be right in the 20 minutes/night range. Hanifin starts 55.5% of his shifts in the defensive zone.

19 blocks 19 hits for Hanifin vs 14/21 for Dougie.

I continue to be amazed that this trade is essentially a wash production wise, with Calgary getting the player that's three years younger and under contract for six years instead of two.

It's still early. I like Hanifin.

Posted below in another thread but think it fits here too. Outside of just directly comparing Hanifin/Hamilton the other thing with the deal is that it's really helped the structure of the defense too.

The Giordano pairing has been just as good if not better (Giordano looks amazing offensively again away from Dougie & GG). And the second pairing has really been shored up with Hanifin and Hamonic having great chemistry.

Then you add how good Lindholm has looked. Plus the fact that we got younger, and more contract control in the deal and the deal looks great. (Still don't like moving Fox though).

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Yeah I'm starting to come around on that Hamonic deal. He's looked a lot better this year compared to last IMO. A big part of that is the chemistry between Hamonic and Hanifin, and if that chemistry lasts it means they likely lock in as your ongoing #2 pairing for a long time potentially.

They continue to be really strong together.

Corsi For: 62%
Shots For: 65%
High Danger For: 70%
Offensive Zone Face Off: 48%

It's funny because by those metrics they are performing a little better than the Slavin/Hamilton partnership that people have really liked for Carolina.

And really with Brodie finding his game again over the last week the top pairing looks great, and Gio/Brodie is performing just as well as Gio/Hamiton was last year.

First number will be Gio/Brodie and second Gio/Hamilton from last year.

Corsi For: 61% / 58%
Shots For: 57% / 57%
Goals For: 76% / 53%
High Danger For: 55% / 62%
Offensive Zone Face Off: 51% / 54%

So the Giordano pairing is just as good, the second pairing (Hanifin/Hamonic) is much better than it was last year (Brodie/Hamonic), and that Lindholm guy has looked great on the first line. Losing Fox still might hurt long term (depends if he actually signs in Carolina though) but the early returns from Lindholm/Hanifin are looking good too.