Smart Thermostats

[monkey brewery]

I'm looking at adding a Nest thermostat to our house, as my mercury one is unreliable. I was going to call someone to hook it up because I just don't know about this stuff, but I can't even get past Google's compatibility checker to see it a Nest thermostat will even work with the wires I have.

There are no labels, markings, or identification on the wires anywhere. Nor are there on the existing thermostat.

Does anyone know about this stuff? All I want to know is if I should even bother calling someone to hook up a Nest. Here's the thermostat, front and back.

The house was built in 1989, and it's the original gas furnace if that helps. No air conditioning.

[photon]

You could also post in the home improvement thread here: https://forum.calgarypuck.com/showthread.php?t=132875

There might be more people who know that stuff there.

[Raekwon]

Wait for someone smarter to come in here but a quick search based on your wiring you have a line voltage thermostat so you would need a line voltage Smart Thermostat which are not nearly as common but available.

https://thesmartcave.com/best-line-v...rt-thermostat/

Differentiating – Line Volt vs Low Volt Now let’s see how to differentiate a line volt and low voltage 2 wire thermostat. You’d be thinking it is a confusing task to differentiate, as both are having only two wires. Well, the key difference here is the ‘thickness’ of wires coming out of the thermostat. The low voltage (24 volts) model will be having ‘thin wires’ or ‘small wires’ coming out of its back, whereas the line voltage (120/240 volts) model will be having ‘thick wires’ or ‘bigger wires’ coming out of its back.

Continue reading at https://thermostatguide.com/2-wire-thermostat/ | Best Digital Thermostat Reviews and Buying Guide

[sa226]

Depending on what you can see in the wall, you could check for extra wires jammed in the wall cavity. That's what I found when I installed our thermostat. I thought originally that I didn't have the C wire. Turns out I did have it, it was just jammed in the wall because the original thermostat didn't require it.

[DoubleF]

I'd suggest watching the Nest installation video. It'll give you a decent baseline of what you're supposed to be paying attention to once you start looking deeper.

Your best entry level options for upgrading to a more modern thermostat are likely Honeywell, Nest and Ecobee. Nest and Ecobee are the more modern ones, but do not always play nice with older HVAC systems. Honeywell has some smart options, but if those are not available, Honeywell has some thermostats that work better with older HVAC systems, but I don't know if you'd be able to do that AND have smart features (ie: Access from an app).

If you get someone to install a thermostat, I think you'll end up paying at least $100-150 for that service. If that person needs to pull a bundle of wires to do it properly, then the numbers can go crazy if you're paying their billing rate x several hours of swear laden grief on their side for pulling lines or the thermostat inexplicably not working even though it's supposed to (ie: 3-6 hours time overruns). That's not even factoring in the materials and the cost of a thermostat which is likely around $200-300 total. I've asked a few HVAC guys for a quote in the past. Most are very busy right now and most refuse to even offering a quote. You might be able to hire someone who knows how to fish wires to pull a bundle for you at a lower charge out rate, but be aware the scenario for just sorting out a smart thermostat could range from $400 to $900 all in depending if you run into compatibility issues.

If you have the option, Nest is a little funky at times, but does have power steal options if you don't have a common wire. Just make sure the thermostat doesn't run out of power if it cannot steal enough power (can pull it off and charge via cable).

Ecobee is what I'd go with if I could get a mulligan and I'd pay the stupid money to pull new bundles and hook up a C wire. I currently have an 80s era HVAC and a new AC unit and I have a wireless hook up to an analog HVAC fan switch.

I have a Nest collecting dust as it was replaced by an older style Honeywell thermostat with no smart app. This was because the Nest and Ecobee weren't compatible with my 80s era set up per the HVAC AC installer. I'm likely primed for a full on HVAC/Utility room overhaul in the next 3-5 years though. I'll get everything replaced and redone to the nines and then get Ecobees to replace the Honeywell and my other Nest.


I would highly recommend that you don't get the "lite" versions of the Nest and Ecobee. They seem to only have as many if not less features than a basic Honeywell thermostat and their only benefit is the app on a phone that allows temp control from phone and scheduling. I believe it's less than half the features of a typical Nest/Ecobee.

IIRC, the lite versions are not as compatible with as many things as the full versions by a lot. I don't know about the latest ones, but the older ones couldn't do a lot of different HVAC systems, AC systems, multi room temp sensors, smart vents and humidifiers whether they are brand new or old. The app it uses isn't even the actual full thermostat app IIRC, it's some seriously hacked down version. This loses certain features like accurate auto away eco mode, motion sensing, accurate usage tracking etc.

I believe the sole benefit of the lite versions is that it uses AA batteries rather than common wire/internal battery, but beyond that, it's like paying 66% of the full version for 33% of the features.

Last time I tinkered around with the thermostat stuff, it was surprisingly a bigger PITA than expected. It took me a long time to figure it out, but I had an idea how to figure it out. If you need to chat with an expert though, EVERLAST on the site is probably a good person to PM to ask who to contact to ask a few minutes worth of questions or who he knows might be able to help you out.

[MoneyGuy]

We hate our Nest thermostat. Maybe others more tech-savvy can do it better but we’ve struggled with the technology. It changes settings without our intervention. We‘ll set a temp so the furnace or AC doesn’t come on, for example, and it’ll flip over to another setting and the furnace will come on; our setting goes away.

[Erick Estrada]

It's very likely you are missing the 24V wire required to power the thermostat electronics. I would recommend an Ecobee smart thermostat with the power extender kit. I had to go this route and it works perfect and you should be able to do it yourself (if you aren't comfortable just purchase the equipment and have an HVAC person install and maybe service your furnace if this hasn't been done for some time). Canadian company as well so always nice to support home grown products. If you get the premium model you can ditch the old humidistat (I see in your photo) as the Ecobee will do a better job controlling humidity in your house. See link below.

https://support.ecobee.com/s/article...-Kit-no-C-wire

[DoubleF]

Originally Posted by MoneyGuy

We hate our Nest thermostat. Maybe others more tech-savvy can do it better but we’ve struggled with the technology. It changes settings without our intervention. We‘ll set a temp so the furnace or AC doesn’t come on, for example, and it’ll flip over to another setting and the furnace will come on; our setting goes away.

Turn off the learning feature so it doesn't override your set schedules and monitor days with higher hours of usage if you want to improve your schedules.

The learning feature in Nest is ridiculously broken to the point I wonder why they haven't scrapped it or disabled it. The changes that are made probably saves energy but often make no sense from a quality of life POV. Maybe it's just bad in colder climates like Calgary?

[EldrickOnIce]

Not going to work for OP, but the Amazon thermostat is really cheap and pretty good apparently, but as we are a Google home, we went with Wyze (also only low volt) and are very pleased with them. And wall plate as well as c wire adapter (if needed) are included at cost of wyze tstat. We are all in on Wyze actually. It definitely has some quirks, but cost of entry is so cheap (relatively speaking) it's well worth it, imo.

[Hemi-Cuda]

Originally Posted by MoneyGuy

We hate our Nest thermostat. Maybe others more tech-savvy can do it better but we’ve struggled with the technology. It changes settings without our intervention. We‘ll set a temp so the furnace or AC doesn’t come on, for example, and it’ll flip over to another setting and the furnace will come on; our setting goes away.

It's either the learning feature as described above, or there's a schedule set that you're not aware of (schedules will always take precedence over manually set temps). I have a Nest and it works fine, I don't use the learning BS and just stick to my manually defined schedule in the Google Home app and have no issues. In the winter I have it set to 19 overnight, 24 in the first few hours in the morning so you can wake up to a nice warm house, then it sits at 22 for the rest of the day. It's nice never having to worry about someone messing with it either, as even if my wife decides to bump it up a degree or two because she's cold, it will just revert back to the schedule as soon as the sleep time kicks in

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by Hemi-Cuda

It's either the learning feature as described above, or there's a schedule set that you're not aware of (schedules will always take precedence over manually set temps). I have a Nest and it works fine, I don't use the learning BS and just stick to my manually defined schedule in the Google Home app and have no issues. In the winter I have it set to 19 overnight, 24 in the first few hours in the morning so you can wake up to a nice warm house, then it sits at 22 for the rest of the day. It's nice never having to worry about someone messing with it either, as even if my wife decides to bump it up a degree or two because she's cold, it will just revert back to the schedule as soon as the sleep time kicks in

Besides being able to control it by the phone - basically any programmable thermostat has a schedule feature that would accommodate your use for a lot cheaper than a smart thermostat.

[Fuzz]

My thermostat is 15 years old and does everything you mentioned.

[Erick Estrada]

You can't go wrong with Ecobee. They are almost universally considered the best smart thermostats. Very simple and they work.

[Hemi-Cuda]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

Besides being able to control it by the phone - basically any programmable thermostat has a schedule feature that would accommodate your use for a lot cheaper than a smart thermostat.

Actually I was mistaken, I have the basic Nest, not the learning one, which is significantly cheaper. And being able to control it from my phone is a huge plus, especially if I forget to disable the schedule before leaving on vacation

[DoubleF]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

Besides being able to control it by the phone - basically any programmable thermostat has a schedule feature that would accommodate your use for a lot cheaper than a smart thermostat.

Phone scheduling vs internal scheduling only is like keyless entry is a meh negligible feature on a car because of price. Nah, once you go to that level of "unnecessary" convenience, it's almost a deal breaker to take that step down to what you had before.

Controlling via phone and aesthetics is like 90% of the major feature and reason of why people are acquiring smart thermostats.

Gone are the days of being too hot or too cold in bed and having to get out bed and ruin a relatively comfortable situation to address the temps. I can poke that into my phone with ease. I can turn down the heat or AC when I'm not at home if I forgot to do so. If there are unexpected circumstances, I can turn up the heat or AC with a smart thermostat, so that the home is closer to my desired comfortable temperature by the time I get home.

I mean, let's not pretend that a $40 thermostat that has the ability to poke in a 7 day schedule is the same as a $120 entry level smart thermostat that looks far more refined and has the ability to be controlled from a phone. Or, a $250 one that looks even more refined and has added features like the ability to pair with temperature sensors in multiple rooms, energy usage tracking, voice control, geo fencing, away mode, return to temp mode etc.

[Sr. Mints]

This is interesting and over my head. There's a Nest thermostat in this house from when the NDP gov't were handing them out and installing them, and I just checked and it has three wires. The furnace has to be late '80s (the earliest servicing sticker I can see is 1989.)

It'd be neat (and maybe pointless) if I could tie in the in-floor heating in the basement and master bath, which were added afterwards, and each have their own controls. Especially the basement. It's freezing down there in the winter and I basically always leave it on. It'd be nice if it could sense when someone's down there. I'm assuming I would need separate smart thermostats for each as they're in different parts of the house? One thing I won't be doing is running wires through walls.

[EldrickOnIce]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

Besides being able to control it by the phone - basically any programmable thermostat has a schedule feature that would accommodate your use for a lot cheaper than a smart thermostat.

The best part of smart thermostats, other than the convenience, is monitoring usage and/or health of system. I monitor them pretty closely and knew well ahead of what otherwise would have that there was an issue with one AC unit. It went, over the course of 3 days in similar weather, from running ~5 hrs per day to 20+ hours per day. And the other unit doubled its daily run time as well, to try and compensate.
So was running combined 28hrs per day instead of usual 7, for two days only - and could have been two weeks or more, were I not overly interested in checking on them in app.

[sleepingmoose]

I hummed and hawed about getting one, then finally had to do it after an extreme cold snap (-30 or worse) hit while we were on vacation for three weeks, and the furnace died. Thank god someone checked the place before it dropped below freezing inside (barely) or it could’ve been a nightmare. Installed an ecobee with the C wire adapter very easily as soon as we got back, which can be programmed to send an alert to my phone when the temperature drops below a certain level. I also have sensors in other rooms, and it’s been the most comfortable summer I remember inside with lower costs from running AC. A total win.

[calgarywinning]

I'd suggest avoiding NEST all together. They were acquired by google and first gen and second gen were royally disabled by google but still used to track your coming and going. Not only that, in their disabled stat; they would function autonomously and not according to programmed schedule or manual setting.

I really feel set upon as the thermostats were not cheap and to get 4 years out of them is pathetic and not only that they way they functioned after.

Stay away, big time. Try AprilAire or Ecobee. Stay away from NEST.

[monkeyman]

Google knows how to ruin a good thing. Not only the thermostat, but the dropcam(nest cam) as well. They went from this awesome, small compact device with great features and an awesome app, to this big white monstrosity with less usability. They stopped supporting things like history with the old cameras in the Google home app and you can't add new cameras to the nest app.
Seriously Google, stop buying companies if you're just going to run them into the ground.